Meditation

Kate

A lot of places do meditation online, I know the London Buddhist Centre do and therefore you can be anywhere in the country or abroad and join in. Maybe that might help?

Are you a medical MJ user?

I ask because I found that for me, it negatively affected my "abilty" when it came to meditation. 

Thank you TheCatWoman - I appreciate your helpful comments very much. I love walking in nature, sometimes it feels soothing and meditative, and sometimes my thoughts disrupt the peace of that a lot. This is why I’ve looked at the more traditional forms of meditation of various kinds. From all the helpful comments I’ve had on here the conclusion I’m coming to is that I need to keep an open mind about meditation and the different ways/practices, and also to keep going and find my way. I definitely feel it’s worth persisting with, and hopefully eventually it will fall into place for me (at least sometimes!). Thank you for your reply :) 

I think a lot of rubbish is spoken about meditation, there's always people around telling you you're doing it wrong, don't listen to them.

First find a comfortable position to sit or kneel in, I used to use a kneeling stool, it helped me to keep my back straight so I could breathe properly.

Some people find chanting easier than silent meditation, personally I'm a silent rather than a chanter.

I found that I was able to be with my "observer self" when intrusive thoughts came in which they did and do, but I was able to watch them and ask questions of them, they eventually lost their power. 

I think being in a safe place is important too, for some that will be a room set aside for meditation, or an outside place, sometimes a church or something. If you don't feel safe then you're not going to relax. You also need the cooperation of the people you share a house with, that they dont' come barging in or disturb you.

Personally I couldn't imagine meditating with an app, to me thats just odd!

Many guided meditations are done badly, I've been to a few that have been truely terrible, seemingly done by people who have no feel for it, who lack the patience and the skills to deal with someone who's experience is less that positive. It's rare that someone has a negative experience but it does happen.

Meditation dosen't have to be still, walking meditations are quite common and many find them easier, you can either walk to a particular place, round a maze, a stone circle or around your garden, it dosen't matter, what matters is you entering a state where your mind is relaxed, even if you have intrusive thoughts. Just look at them, try not to engage with them, and get caught up in them, just try and look at what they're tryiing to do and why they're tryiing to distract you.

Thank you! I can really relate to this! Yes - I think my mind is more like the restless kind of puppy

And at times I do feel like such a failure because meditation ‘isn’t working for me’. You’re right - expectation - it’s part of the problem. I’ve  always  ‘worked very hard’ to try to feel better, and given ‘my whole self’ to things - and that isn’t always a good thing. I think I try too hard sometimes. I think it comes (possibly) from not feeling safe or emotionally supported as a child and trying to fix that. I feel I have to ‘make things ok’ - I don’t have any faith in the fact that they might just ‘turn out ok’ by themselves. Ultimately I think it comes down to not feeling safe. 

We spent some time by the sea last week - being by the ocean was very helpful. We live a long way from the coast - which is a shame because I do think it’s a very mindful experience to be by the ocean.  it was absolutely wonderful - so freeing! 

Hi Number - nice to see you too :) 

You make excellent points here - thank you! What I’m being very helpfully reminded of in these comments is that meditation can come in very many forms - the key is to find one that works for the individual. I’ve been listening to so much Thich Nhat Hanh and Plum Village and been too focussed on their specific practices - I need to broaden it out and be more open minded about different routes to similar ends.

I also find driving quite mindful (as long as it’s not too hectic/busy/challenging). My son (who is also autistic) particularly likes long motorway journeys. I used to do a lot of cycling - so I know what you mean about that too. 
I’ve been interested in Buddhism and meditation and mindfulness for a long time - but after a very traumatic sudden illness a couple of years ago these things now feel like a necessity for survival rather than just an interest. I’ve learnt SO MUCH in the past two years - and I feel so much wiser - but sadly still deal with a lot of anxiety etc. so I still have a long way to go to get to a point where I don’t feel burdened by that. And I have a son for whom day to day life is a huge struggle (he’s autistic, has Selective Mutism and very complex problems with ocd that even effect things like eating and drinking - very difficult for him and very difficult to try to help him with as the nhs have been woefully inadequate). 
I now feel like I have a much greater understanding of so many things - but the physical anxiety is so hard to tackle. I feel I’m trying to sooth a history of decades of anxiety and those neural pathways are very deeply worn. I had a very dysfunctional childhood (very f**ked up parents!) including a lot of time in hospital as a very young child - and so there’s a lot there and I don’t even know if it’s possible to be free of the impact of that. Is it just too hard wired? I just bought a very interesting book called ‘Flowers in the Dark’ by Sister Dang Ngheim - a Buddhist Nun who fled from war torn Vietnam and became a Doctor in the U.S - and then became a Nun. Her story is fascinating - I think the book might teach me a lot (hopefully). 

I agree with you that meditative practices of one kind or another are incredibly helpful and important. I have faith in this approach. I feel that so much in modern western culture/society is doing the OPPOSITE of mindfulness - there is so much distraction, so much competing for our attention, so much pressure. So little peace and trust - so much need for a vigilant mind rather than a rested mind. I feel caught amid a personal history of anxiety and trauma and a culture that is ever trying to stop us from having a clear mind and feeling contented. Capitalism demands that we ARE NOT contented - because if we are contented we don’t need to buy more stuff! 

Anyway - that’s a tangent - but it doesn’t help! 
One thing I am encouraged by is that when I come on here with this community there are so many helpful people who are trying to find a way to live well - and to help others - and often while dealing with so many challenges. I so appreciate that. Thank you for your help - and it’s good to hear that you have found things that are really helpful to you. I know what you mean about ‘NEED’ - it’s not a luxury to take care of ourselves - it really is essential. Thank you :) 

Kate Kestrel said:

really DO want to live - and to live well - and I think that it’s possible

Definirely a good start! 

You don't have to focus on the breath. You just need some THING to focus your attention on and bring it back when your mind wanders. This could be substituted with focusing on parts of the body such as in a body scan or yoga nidra. It could start simple like focusing on the water on your skin in the shower. It doesnt just have to be a set practice.

I used to have difficulty with expectation, whether I was doing it "right" or "in time" and the worry of being interrupted half way through made me worse before I had even started. Then if I had missed a few days I'd be annoyed with myself, and there were periods where I would avoid it because it was a demand on myself. 

If the mind is like a puppy on a lead, some people have livelier and bouncier ones which need more training!

Hi Arise - thank you. Yes - I think you’re right - it’s important that it because part of my daily routine. I’m not great with discipline and routines (unlike a lot of autistic people I think). But I’m going to try and do this. 

Hello CM, This is really helpful - thank you. Yes - I think this is a very important thing for me to bear in mind - that there are different routes to a similar result. I do a lot of drawing and I think it’s a bit like what you describe - a mindful activity in a way. I also love walking in nature (particularly in the woods) and that’s very settling to my mind too. You’re right - these are mindfulness and maybe better if my mind is not going to setting on such a still and focussed meditation. 
i love animals but don’t have a pet as I don’t want to be tied down by the responsibility of having a pet. I think it would be good for me to find a way to have a bit more contact with animals somehow. You are so lucky to spend time with horses - they are so beautiful - such wonderful animals. My dream has always been to live in a home with a field out the back with horses in - they are just so beautiful. 
thank you for the very helpful suggestions - I really appreciate it! 

It doesn’t come across that way - don’t worry! I appreciate your suggestions - they are helpful and really interesting. I think in a way that I’ve been ‘trying too hard’ - that’s part of the problem probably! I’m one of those people that always ‘tries really hard’ at things - and it’s not always a good thing! I think meditation involves ‘letting things go’ - and I struggle with that unfortunately. I’m always ‘trying’ to feel better - that’s part of the problem I’m sure!

You are ‘explaining yourself well’  - you make a very good point! Yes - I’m dealing with very high anxiety levels, traumatic memories and resulting dips of depression - and that’s probably not the best foundations to learn how to meditate (or at least makes it harder to get going). Your comparison of trying to exercise with a broken leg is a very good one! 
I've had anxiety for decades, then heightened by a traumatic experience (severe illness) and mentally I probably have two broken legs to be honest! 
At its worst it’s definitely a threat to my life - because sometimes I feel I can’t go on living like this. But I really DO want to live - and to live well - and I think that it’s possible (I dearly hope it is). And I do think that meditation and Buddhism has so much to offer in terms of finding peace and acceptance of the challenges we all face in life (and I think autistic people deal with so much). 
thank you for your help :) 

Hi - thank you - I’ve tried a lot of guided meditations - some of them are terrible and sometimes just amusing - so I can understand your reaction! People say ‘try meditation’ but there are so many options that it’s actually quite confusing and a very mixed bag (in my experience anyway!). 
M unfortunately focussing on breathing is a problem for me due to a health condition/trauma related to breathing - so that rules out a lot of the options. Counting though - I hadn’t thought of that. Interesting. I’m really glad it’s been helpful for you - all help is good that’s for sure! As I get older I find the anxiety I’ve always struggled with is getting worse if anything - and if I’m to survive I need to reduce it because it makes life almost unbearable at times. Both myself and my son are 100% tired of the idea that autism is a ‘superpower’ - we are too worn out and exhausted to think of it as that anymore! We have no support (other than from my husband who is so great) and everyday feels like a struggle a lot of the time - but I’ve found Buddhism to be a very hopeful thing in my life. I’ve been watching loads of Thich Nhat Hanh and Plum Village videos on YouTube and they are so gentle and helpful. I feel I can really connect with them and they make sense to me in a way our own mainstream U.K. culture and society doesn’t. I feel so alienated by what’s around me in the U.K. - the capitalism, the aggression, the pressure put on everyone. 
Thank you for your help :) 

Hi MArt - thank you - this is really helpful. I have not heard of the Apps etc that you mention - I will look at these. I’m so glad that meditation is helpful to you. I have a lot of confidence in it so I’m going to try to overcome my difficulties. I’ve been listening to the teachings of Thich Nhat Hanh and Plum Village - and these have been helpful on multiple levels, but I’ve still struggled with meditation practice. I have so much anxiety and ptsd - my mind is very active, restless and full of so many fearful thoughts and traumatic memories, and they come up and it’s hard to not struggle with them when they arise. Breathing focused meditation is difficult for me as I have some heath/trauma issues with breathing, and so many meditation practices involve focussing on the breath! So that’s a huge problem. I’ve tried repeating a mantra but (I know this sounds ridiculous!) I cannot seem to settle on a mantra that ‘feels right’ to me. This in itself demonstrates how unsettled a state my mind is in! I realise that my approach is intrinsically too ‘grasping’ - I feel I’m ‘trying too hard’ and that’s part of the problem. But with so much anxiety and ptsd it’s so hard to not be reactive to the thoughts I have - some of which are so dark and painful.

i think you’re right that to go to a group would be helpful - but that would be very hard for me as I find it so hard to be relaxed with people I don’t know, especially groups. I’m typically autistic in that sense. Plus I live in a fairly isolated rural  community in an area where there are very few things like that - I’ve never seen anything locally about Buddhism or meditation groups, it’s not that kind of place! 

Thank you for your help - I really appreciate it. I have a lot of faith in the ability of these practices to help people. I’m very interested in finding things that can help autistic people with their high levels of anxiety etc - my son is also autistic and we’ve both had conventional therapy from the nhs (mainly CBT) but it’s not been very helpful (for my son in particular he had a year of CBT and didn’t seem to benefit at all). 

Anyway, thank you for your help. 

Hello Kate

A few questions first, how long have you been meditating, what practice do you use and what are your expectations?

I’m no expert but I’ve been meditating daily, usually shortly after I get up, for 7 years. I use a combination of techniques, I use the Insight Timer App, you can download from the App Store, it has hundreds of meditation practises and is very helpful. I also use the Mindfulness of Breathing and the Metta Bhavana. Equally I’ve been part of the London Buddhist Centre for the same amount of time.

There’s a great myth about meditation and being in some calm and tranquil state. Of course you might be but equally it can be a reflection of how you are in the moment, it is what it is. You cannot force it to be something!

We all have overactive minds, we cannot make our minds blank. So when meditating and a thought pops into our minds, we observe it but don’t dwell on it or get enmeshed with it, just allow it to pass through and sure enough the same thought will appear again or a different thought will show itself, observe and let it pass through, don’t dwell on it or make it an issue.

If you haven’t been taught how to meditate, then I’d suggest you join a group if that’s possible. Meditating together can be very powerful. Find a teacher too, if that’s possible.

i do think meditation helps me but it can be hard work, it’s not always easy but one must try and be committed and stay with it, whatever comes up.

Curb your expectations. I hope this helps?

As some of the others have said, I find focusing on a single activity much more useful.

Personally I really dislike guided meditations, they tend to leave me feeling overwhelmed and with the urge to throw something at the voice, or if it's on my phone, throw the voice source. 

I have had more success with number and breath based things (I use 4-2-6 breathing patterns and that is good for me, both the counting and the deep breathing). Anything involving counting works pretty well for me.

I realise this might come across as "well just try harder!" but this is not my intention. It isnt about success or failure snd different things work for different people. 

If you are unfit in the gym, you probably need to work harder to get fit, and then it is about maintaining. Then you can start lifting heavier weights and climb the stails without getting out of puff. If you have an overactive brain, the same probably applies in order to get a "fitter" brain. My experience is baseline levels need to be on the side of reasonable to begin with. ie you can't go to the gym if you have a broken leg. I found meditation difficult when in stages of high anxiety or whatever the hell it was.  I am not explaining myself well as its the middle of the night. I have sent you a PM. 

While I like the quiet found in meditative ‘places’ (eg a monastery) I too have never been able to focus and quiet my mind while sitting still. Focusing less on meditation and more on activities that make you feel ‘present’ could help- while I don’t actively ‘meditate’ I do spend a lot of time with horses (who are very good at ‘being present’) and in nature- going on walks is also really good, because I have to use a [reasonably large] proportion of my brainpower just to coordinate my body, the amount I have to ‘quiet down’ is significantly reduced.

I can normally use a simple mental routine to focus and enter a meditative state but if I’m really wound up I struggle. In this case using a guided meditation usually works. There are many meditation apps that offer this. I think it’s the guiding voice that works for me. It gives me something more to latch on to. Maybe that would work for you. It’s also important to meditate regularly. Even for just 10 minutes a day. Leave it too long and I find it’s harder the next time. 

Hello Kate.  Lovely to "see" you.

Ever the contrarian (perhaps)......after some reflection on this topic, over many years - and on the basis that I am, first-and-foremost, an analyst....it would appear that I can achieve a meditative state ONLY when I am in a form of "forward motion."

Driving works.  Jogging works.  Running works.  A train journey works.  Walking works.   Cycling works.

fwiw.....I would encourage you to keep trying to find a meditative state for yourself.  ALL the ACTUAL people whom I like, respect and cherish, seem to report (universally) that meditation (or a meditative state as I prefer to coin it) is VERY important to them.

Sometimes Kate, I just NEED - and I mean REALLY NEED to go for a walk or a drive.  When I return, I ALWAYS have more spoons and a calmer and "more in control" demeanour about myself.

As always, I wish you very well.

Kind regards

Number.