Is Santa silly?

A lie is a lie, just because some people are happy with lies does not justify lying.

Telling a lie to your own children is a serious abuse of trust.

The people who peddle this lie no doubt also subscribe to the 'go on ... it's christmas" nonsense as well... go on and do what ? lose all sense of rationality and forget about the consequences of your actions .. eg get drunk, spend what you cannot afford, live for today, eat too much etc....

so, do i take it i am not to be trusted and that my so called lies (assuming i have lied) have caused harm to others?

that question is purely retorical, however my attempted appology was genuine.

that olive branch is still extended.

good luck

rob

spock said:

i am not immune to taking some things personally and probably without justification took offence at comments suggesting that those in the education sector are not to be trusted.

If a teacher blatantly lies, a teacher blatantly lies. Factors like the joys of childhood, magic of Christmas, pleasing people etc. are immaterial. I'm sure that there are countless of parents who would take offence if a teacher told their children that Santa is real and delivers Christmas presents.

i myself do not believe in santa, however i can accept that others have a right to believe and so preach as they see fit (as long as they hurt nobody).

i have met many through life who hold beliefs that may differ to mine. they are not wrong or untrustworthy, rather just different.

i am not immune to taking some things personally and probably without justification took offence at comments suggesting that those in the education sector are not to be trusted. humour is my way of coping with situations i am not comfortable with. i work in education and in a subjective way was offended by the inferences i thought were being put forward.

with this in mind i offer an olive branch, i hope it is accepted in the spirit it is offered.

rob

santa is a lie, he is against lies,

"Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either." - Albert Einstein

You can't argue with the greatest genuis ever.

There is no argument. END OF THREAD

dear arron

ho, ho, ho! i do agree with your last comment, but feel ticking a no to santa box on the application could render an uncertain santa non-believer placed on the naughty list for life.

respect

rob

spock said:

teachers can only know how parents convey any message at home if the partnership between state and citizen is carefully and appropriately managed, such good practice is the responsibilty of both parties.

The only sensible solution is to have a box on the school application form for "Do the parents propagate the Santa lie?".

many multi ethnic schools have a policy of entering into dialogue with thosr belonging to their communities and beyond, and many will as a result of such action offend very few. unfortunately it is the nature of the beast that we will likely always offend someone even when trying to offend no-one.

It's a thorny problem trying to please everybody and it's further complicated by the fact that the Santa lie is officially a pervasive cultural issue, largely confined to some Christians and atheists, rather than a religious issue. The result is a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation.

teachers can only know how parents convey any message at home if the partnership between state and citizen is carefully and appropriately managed, such good practice is the responsibilty of both parties. it might be considered unfair to place responsibility for family, religious/non-religious or social practices solely on the formal educators/teachers.

many multi ethnic schools have a policy of entering into dialogue with thosr belonging to their communities and beyond, and many will as a result of such action offend very few. unfortunately it is the nature of the beast that we will likely always offend someone even when trying to offend no-one.

respect

rob

spock said:

it is also very difficult for a teacher to tell a kid that santa isn't real when the childs parents haven't yet told them the truth. in such cases the teacher is often compelled to adhere to the wishes of the parents.

How do teachers know the wishes of the parents or whether they do the Santa lie at home or tell the truth? What if the class contains children who follow religions other than Christianity who already know that Santa is a lie? What if they are the majority of the class?  The situation is further complicated by the fact that some Christian families don't propagate the Santa lie and some atheist families do propagate the Santa lie, so the religion box in a child's school record isn't always helpful in this case.

it just might be that we tell our kids santa is real because we believe they want him to be. if this is the case are we meerely perpetuating the childs own lie to him/herself.

it is also very difficult for a teacher to tell a kid that santa isn't real when the childs parents haven't yet told them the truth. in such cases the teacher is often compelled to adhere to the wishes of the parents. therefore they are behaving in a manner that certainly befits their status, after all education of a child is a legal partnership between school and parent where responsability is shared equally.

respect

rob

You have misunderstood my post, never mind.

Teachers do make mistakes but there's a big difference between a mistake and an outright lie. I regard any teacher who lies to children about Santa being real as disreputable, untrustworthy, and unfit to continue teaching as a career. If a teacher can get away with such a whopping great lie as this then it raises the questions "what else are they lying about?" or "can they be trusted and relied on to tell the truth?".

Bear in mind that not all children come from families that perpetuate the Santa lie, for religious or other reasons, and if teachers lie to such children about Santa being real then it could result in very angry parents and break down trust between them and the school.

Arran said:

[quote]trustworthy teacher[/quote]

A trustworthy teacher is one who tells the truth rather than lies about Santa being real.

..but (as Paull got us onto this matter) then says "there, there never mind that he's not real, I can be your special friend instead."

You could pick holes in anything and everything.  But you are wasting your energy.

IntenseWorld said:

trustworthy teacher

A trustworthy teacher is one who tells the truth rather than lies about Santa being real.

is it really a lie, to feed the fantasy of childhood. perhaps we choose to call it lying to the young, not because we dissaprove of the myth but rather to mask our dissappointment at discovering the truth.

santa does exist, in the same way the tooth fairy does and snow white and the man in the moon, the list goes on. none are lies, meerely tools for protecting childhren from the drudge of adulthood for as long as possible.

so, yes he is real (kinda).

merry christmas to all who wish one.

rob

Children are supposed to see Santa with their parent present, it would be the parent's fault if they were so useless as not to see their child being molested.  Molestation occurs in many places.  School teachers have been guilty of it for one - do you suggest that all parents withdraw their children from school?!

Quite a lot of small children are scared of Santa, that big beardy man in a bright red suit.  Who is scared of their trustworthy teacher, that they see every day, in a place of safety and discipline?

gawdd... is this still going on....

I'll just add on a more sinister note that I think the silly illusion of father christmas plays into the hands of kiddy fiddlers. Theres hundreds of cases where they have used playing father christmas to get close to kids. It's another reason why kids should be told the truth, a child who has had the illusion fed into their head by their parents could find themselves in a dangerous situation due to assuming that some random fat bloke in a cheap costume is some amazing guy that flies around the world, knows their every move and gives them presents.

Probably these type of parents that fill their kids heads with lies are exactly the type of parents that allow their child to sit on a fat blokes knee who is a total stranger.

Then the cynic in you would be right.  But that's something that is obvious to everyone already, it's a commercial world we live in.  We are all annoyed at how early they start putting Christmas paraphernalia out - but that doesn't mean we all have to be bah-humbug about it.

As for not needing stuff, I use it as an opportunity to buy my husband things he genuinely needs and are useful.  I buy him practical presents.

I choose to laugh off how obvious and ridiculous the shops are, but I also choose to love watching my children's faces light up as they see what Father Christmas brought them, and their joy at how he knew just what they wanted.  I also choose to indulge their overall excitement and magic of the festive period, and the light relief it offers them in a world which is challenging and scary to them because of their autism.

Christmas season officially starts today, although in reality, it starts in September. This means that the pervasive characteristic of Santa as part of British popular culture is now out in full force because it's impossible to visit a supermarket without seeing cardboard pictures of him decorating the shelves of seasonal products. Some people visiting might ask "who is this strange and mysterious individual?" or "is he real or is he a figment of imagination like Mr Kipling and Uncle Ben?". There must be millions of people in Britain who find pictures of Santa as meaningless and insignificant as a notional British Christian will find a picture of Durga.

The cynic in me says that Christmas and the fictitious character of Santa are nowadays just an opportunity for stores to make big money by selling us all sorts of stuff that we don't really need.