Cat experts wanted!

Yes cats are like that, do not do well with a change in food at all! Though my boys will love a treat tin of 'fancy' food and gulp it down as a treat (as sometimes I think they like the novelty) it seems their stomachs can't tolerate it that well (I relate a lot to my cats hah! Not really liking change too much, I like the people I like and the things I like and sometimes I want adventures but it turns out that they are scarier than I can cope with!) I sometimes think about getting a dog in the future, mainly as I know then I would be forced to go for more walks for my stupid mental health and couldn't give myself excuses when I would rather stay in my PJs, as then I would feel bad for the dog!

I've done something similar, in that I've extended the peripheral fence upward and inwards with 1m of inward sloping plastic mesh, and today I put the finishing touches to the small catio/external bog feature 

Digestive problems are easing now, due to a combination of ONLY giving him one sort of food, etc. Since my original post, they both caught (and recovered) from some sort of intestinal disturbance, which kept me busy shovelling and ventilating the house for a week or so...

He still manages the occasional escape, of course.  

my dad was nice enough to build a 'catio' for my 2 indoor boys (it is like half of our garden, looks like a pergola, but meshed in, and they enjoy it, it has lots of shelves and climbing equipment for them) he constructed it from reused and skipped wood and i think overall the parts of it must have cost less than £300 (I am very lucky that he built it for us though as I am not sure I would have known how to build it, only design it hah!). I also walk my 2 in the garden on harnesses (by walk, I mean they take me where they would like to go, and I just stop them from trying to kill all the wildlife) it isn't the way you would walk a dog! But then they are used to it from when I rescued them at 2 weeks old, so I am very overprotective and anxious over them (they are 12 now). Digestion-wise do you know if your cat food contains grain? One of mine cannot tolerate that and will throw it up if I accidentally give anything with that in..there are some probiotic powders you can add to food in case it is some sort of stomach thing, I am not sure how much they work, has he been to the vet to check he is otherwise ok?

ive had a load of cats in a rural place. one road. the only road. ,most of them still get hit by cars. i think its the hegerows... once something gets their attention they tune out the oncoming traffic.  saying that i would still let them out. dont want to fall out with anyone. good luck. 

I didn't love Steve Barrett when I was 11, but when he walked out from behind a bus into the path of a car, I pulled him back to safety.

As with my cats, if they have lived 10 years indoors without growing the required outdoor survival experience and given that I have a "known to be dangerous to cats" road in front of our house, then whilst I appreciate the advice, I prefer to keep them restricted to our garden, until it no longer seems the right thing to do. 

And that is how it is working out.

The escape attempts have at last subsided as Blackie appears to have given me this one for the time being.

As they subsided, it then became possible to give him more time in the garden, MUCH more, and better quality, happier time, and cats are not stupid... They did however somehow manage to get a third cat to come and join them today, whilst I made a cup of tea, and they noted how he left, but did not attempt to follow. The idea of making our fences actually too high to cross, prison camp style did not sit well with me, but making the perimeter a decent enough obstacle that gives a cat pause for reflection, (and makes an attempt noisy enough that I can thwart it) Seemed to be the way to go. Each time he looks at the place from where he used to escape, and decides not to try, reinforces the desired mindset. I'd LOVE the idea of him to go out and be free and as cat as he can possibly be, but the same thing that stops me walking into the local gypsy encampment and seeing how many friends I can make, is the same thing that keeps him inside of our garden. I honestly believe that neither of us has had the right preparation in life, to need those experiences. SOMEONE ELSE neutered him. Someone Else kept him indoors for ten years, but I have the power to now make the decisions for him and I have to consider that his urge to explore might get him into situations for which he is unprepared, because of his previous ten years.

They both are a lot happier and friendly now since when I made the original post, and (touch wood) the digestive issues seem to be in the rear mirror at last, so this feels a lot like winning.  

Blackie has become very "Familiar" already, in a very fast time indeed. He is fast asleep snoring away on some packing material he discovered, but I know when I get up to go to bed he will most likely wake up and follow me...  And no, surprisingly enough, fleas are very, very, rarely an issue for us. 

Forty years ago I learned all I ever needed to about fleas, which is that a nice warm/hot cup of reasonably strong tea with 2 sugars left near where your cat sits, or if it's on you where YOU sit, is irresistible to the little buggers, and a dead easy way to check for them.

I do not prophylactically treat my cats with the latest flea treatment, unless they actually get fleas, which flies in the face of every bit of vetinary advice that I get, but is A) cheaper, & B) does not expose the cats metabolism to unneccesary chemistry. I do what works for me and my cats, which is not always exactly the same as the professional classes advise as being correct.

Right now I am being asked to stop typing and come and do a service...  

if you love something let it go. isnt that what sting sang? let cats be cats. they need to roam and explore.

My neighbours: elderly lady from next house, and boys two floors below me have old cats that were always indoor cats never allowed outside.

2 months ago old lady's cat started escaping outside and coming back weird hours, so she leaves door to the building open nighttime and goes to bed so cat could get in. That annoys her neighbours and cat often do not go in, just stops and sleeps on stairs to the building. I return home at various hours between 1am and 6am, and cat is outside everytime now.

Today i almost stomped on cat belonging to boys from ground floor, idid not see it coming, never happened before, 1h later when i was back from shopping cat was still there, at least it is inside building, their other cat did not follow his brother

They were apparently very stable BEFORE they had a dental, shots, wormer, the full enchilada courtesy of the CP people...

We were told what to feed them and that they were fine on that..

Try a hypoallergenic food? Have you also tried a raw diet? And have they had their regular shots and wormer?

Me too, I speak cat :P but not human.

I am happy to hear you're taking such a good care of your pets, they are more important than humans. Staring through the window will hopefully replace the need to explore.

My friend's flatmate, a difficult case, is moving out of their flat and my friend asked me if I want to take over his room, I said ''Yes man''. My friend has a whole bunch of various animals and landlord's permission to keep them, his dog staffy bulldog Princess is cat friendly, I'm thinking about adopting a pair of cats after I move in, until now I couldn't find a flat where landlord would say yes. Except there is no garden, and the flat is in block of flats, but ground level, so I could leave the window open for them.

Ours like like different things at different times. Ours are clearly adjusting to a completely new way of living. Even basic playing seemed to be a novelty. (although to be fair that's been a bit thin on the ground recently but they have been instead exposed to the garden which is clearly a BIG hit with them.

I think we are starting to get the idea that the boundaries are there for a reason, and that when we need to go in, we need to go in without any messing about.

And to be fair, I've NEVER seen a cat actually respond correctly to "Stay" before like Blackie did the other night. That was new to me. (It was V. late and they needed some fresh grass, I wan;t in the mood to mess about and when Blackie went to follow me onto the garden I told him, (in a fairly grumpy & businesslike way, to be fair) "No, mate, I need you to STAY". He was still sitting in the same spot when I returned with a bowl of fresh grass... 

They have a bay window at the front that they like, and a bedroom window at the back from which they can look down and survey the garden, and all the places we don't want them to go. Next week, more materials will be arriving with which to increase the difficulty of exiting our garden. If we didn't have a patio twixt house and grass we'd have got them a catio ages ago, but they really need better access to what nature remains in our garden. When it's fully secured against escape by a combination of physical barriers and/or psychology then they can have catflap access to it.

I have to assume that whilst they are not a perfect prganisation that the cat's protection peoples experience of many cats has greater value than my much more limited experience of a few cats.

I do know that cats can live to a great many years in a very restricted environment. I do know that ours show all the signs of being happy and contented, and none of the signs of frustration and boredom. We seem to have a lot of "give and take" going on, and the little one is definitely losing her fear of me now, and gaining a little bit more confidence every day. Today, she woke me up and was nice to me. Which is new, she used to outsource al the "human wrangling" to Blackie, but recently she's been starting to take some initiative.

Cats are interesting and it's great to bring them on a bit, so they start trying to interact with you properly, and not just to get a simple result before going back to ignoring you. I just wish I could be so successful with humans...

Did your cats develope a habit of sitting by the window watching the world outside?

there is a possibility that cats very much like humans copy some of learnt behaviour from other cats, and if those cats that were copied where trained by people to avoid cars than the odds are that cats in neighbourhood will avoid roads in general

I observed a cat sitting by the side of the road once, JUST before it ran under the front of the van I was driving... I've got fast reactions but it was a van, and I'm sure there was some impact although the cat did run away very fast afterwards and not allow me to inspect him.

We had our neighbour a few years back, come round one morning to tell us that our black cat was lying dead in his entry. Turned out it was not our black cat, thank goodness.

And finally, during the training of our last one, during his rebellious phase, GPS collar told me he was on the other side of the road, so I went out looking for him. He saw me first, and guiltily dashed back across the road towards the house, without any observations whatsoever. Thankfully he got the idea a few days later and that stopped being a problem.

But young and very trainable cats like our last one are a different proposition to the older ones. I'm just not sure I can train these sucessfully to "stay out of the road".

Average U.K. domestic cat lifetime seems closer to 15 than 20 years, although we once had one that was good for 22 years, our last one died of a thrombosis after only 6 years, and his predecessor died from cancer at only 14-5 years...

I observed that most cats that go outdoors, and  have to follow or cross road, tend to stay under cars parked on sides, and than quickly jumo the gap to the next car actually 

if there is car approaching I have never seen a cat running through the street trying to do it first, they would let the car pass and than cross safely

yes, it's an obligation, breaking it would bother you until death, and if something happened to cat you would probably have meltdown at least if not worse

you're good to them, they were used to that, together you might actually make it, how old are they? I noticed domesticated cats in UK live 20years on average, no idea about strays

village cats were i grew up lived longer, unless something ate them, the eldest we had dissapeared when he had 37, whole village would joke he is father of all cats there LOL

"Conventional wisdom" says that they can be kept indoors all their lives Mariusz.

Which is exactly my problem with "conventional wisdom"...

All I can say, is that when they came, one was excessively friendly and over co-operative, and one was excessively unfriendly and a "hider" and "hisser".

After 6 months of us, he now expresses himself much more freely and honestly, and he negotiates rather than complying meekly and she no longer hides nor hisses, (except on occasion when I woke her up, and she looked suitably embarrassed when she realised it was just me) so we are doing O.K. 

I feel I have to balance letting them be "true to their nature", with recognising that their previous upbringing was very "counter-survival" as far as the outside world goes, so it isn't as easy a question as you might think. I have to choose a course of action that accommodates their previous history which is out of my control.

I've been able to pursuade three cats so far in my life to "Stay out of the road" (which conventional wisdom says cannot be done, but my GPS collar confirmed and previous experience told me, that it can be done). Whether I can entrain two of them to stop wanting to explore past the garden boundary seems a much bigger challenge. 

Don't forget, I'm essentially very interested and driven by matters around honesty and trustworthyness. The cat's protection people told me in no Uncertain terms that these were indoor cats, and that letting them out was NOT in their best interests. I made an agreement to look after them to the best of my ability.

IF I break that agreement, and ignore their well meant advice, and allow them to enter the world of traffic, foxes, and whatever it was that attempted to drown their predeccossor some years ago on the hottest day of the year (he came back TOTALLY drenched and with his claws worn away to nothing,    

I don't believe a cat can last 10 years locked indoors without developing some psychotic traits

denial of the need to explore is the biggest issue, it's like someone was using ABA on you for 10 years, how would you feel? I( reckon they were regurarly escaping and had those trips, they just did not tell you

yes there is a risk at the begining, they are not familiar with dangers yet

Mariusz. We got them after they had (alledgedly) spent ten full years being kept indoors.

You would think they would have adjusted to and come to prefer the indoors just like most humans will if you keep them incarcerated for more than half of their lifespan... 

So letting them go "free range" although a lovely idea, is possibly a similar idea to buying a middle aged man (whos never had one before) a fast motorcycle... 

if you force your cat to turn into indoor cat, it's like aba therapy for autistic kid, and  cat would make you pay the price for it

e.g. 1h after you have fallen asleep he would climb something from where he can jump on you lying in bed, if you were nasty a long time, he would jump on you with 10 claws out, serving you 10 waking piercings, and horiible meow

I Sperg said:

human staff

Lol...that's about the size of it. We are merely the staff and need to know our place.

Seriously though, I'd have your orange boy checked out by a vet. 

As for the outdoor life, well getting it from their point of view. A cat is a cat, they weren't designed to live indoors. Yes it's riskier for them, but it is a proper cat life.

If they are vulnerable out there a catio (fenced off patio for cats, accessible via a cat flap in the back door) is your answer. My sister in law designed and built a really elaborate one for her six. A big outdoor area with lots of hiddy holes, things to scratch and climb on and other assorted cat pleasures. But no, they don't come cheap.