help with pre-school booster

Just goes to prove that music gets in your veins... The condition is known as Vibration White Finger btw, comes from using vibrating tools - I prefer to think they meant roaddrills etc...

I've got a 6 channel graphic equaliser so I can shut the bass off entirely, but I find a little does you good. I agree about the aggravation factor of thump thump music, it goes right through your bones.

Laughed at the shop assistant btw, and Good theory...

Now I like a bit of Led Zep.  What I hate is the idea that seemed to be around a few years ago that how good music was depended entirely on how loud the bass was and how much bragging the singer did (if you could hear him). I used to have an awful neighbour and could feel the thumping right through me when he turned it on.  Instant headache.  Very relieved when he got thrown out for rent arears!

I once totally stumped a shop assistant who was showing off sub-woofers by asking if they had a sound system where the bass could be turned down: when I was a kid our record player could be adjusted in that way, but he seemed to think it was unheard of for anyone not to like as much bass as possible...

Thinking back, I did read evidence that vibration could damage fine blood vessels, eg working with big road drills.  So I don't think my theory is impossible!  LOL

Nicely put, Atypical, now, where's me Led Zep and me wheely bin...?

PS: On the other hand a few years ago I was very tempted to spread the idea that heavy bass music damaged male 'potency' by damaging fine blood vessels.  LOL.  Can't give any research to support it, but sounds believable to me...

This seems to be an old thread with a tendency to pop up again, but people will read it, so adding my bit...

I'm an older adult currently waiting for assesment for ASD. I'm old enough that I grew up without an MMR jab, and in fact had mumps and measles as a child (didn't get Rubella, vacinated for that as a teenager...). MMR didn't cause it in me (or in the others in my family I suspect are also undiagnosed aspies). As other people have pointed out, the one study that indicated a link has been totally discredited.  ASD is a developmental disorder: basically all babies are autistic and the differences develop and the gap gets bigger (to a greater or lesser extent) as we age, so that it may become apparent at vacination time. The overall increase in diagnosis is best explained by increased awareness: when I was at school Aspergers didn't exist as a diagnosis: only kids with extreme symptoms were recognised. That's why there's lots of adults like me trying to get assessed now.

I agree it's not ideal that drug companies do testing. On the other hand are they likely to want to risk big compensation bills if they deliberately falsify things?  Maybe they are that stupid in some cases, but I think generally any and every possible side effect will be included in the long list that comes in the packet (I actually read them...)

"The main theme is that non-immunised children are a danger to immunised children - not true - this is an outright lie - how can a child that is supposedly immunised against somethiing - then go and catch it from a child that hasn't been?" (Bennyjetz)

Actually the theory is that there will always be some who are not immunised for unavoidable reasons.  A certain percentage of imunisations will fail to take, leaving those people vulnerable even though they were vacinated (probably what you are talking about). There will also be some who can't be imunised because they've had bad reactions before to imunisations or some of their contents (eg eggs). There are also those who have health conditions that mean their imune systems don't work properly.  The idea is that if there's enough imunised people these individuals will be protected.

I do think it's reasonable to question whether various ingredients for vacinations are needed/a good idea, and whether we should be having less vacinations.  Put it this way: my cats get vacinated every 3 years, as recomended by some authorities, instead of the yearly vaccination usually given.  For some conditions at least it may be possible to get imunity tested (this is possible for some cat diseases I know, and is commonly done before tuberculosis vacination of course). Might be something to look into for those wary of boosters, though I guess it would have to be private and possibly expensive!

'Experts' told us that Thalidomide was safe for pregnant women, that man wouldn't be able to breathe if he travelled faster than 15 miles per hour, that a heavier-than-air craft could never fly, that lead was perfectly safe in petrol - need we go on?

So what if immunisation does cause Autism? It's still only about 1-2% of children, and who wouldn't accept that as a failure rate if it's something that protects over 98% of children AND in accepting the failure rate we also accept responsibility for looking after those who HAVE been damaged by it.

Personaly, I think I was born like it. I think my Mum's Dad, her brother and herself were born like it too I already understand that no genetic link has been proven, but it has been indicated.

I do not discount that MMR might also be responsible, Homo Sapiens messes with the natural order of things in all sorts of ways and with all sorts of bad results, but also with good ones too, and either way we often don't know untill the results are in... I might also think that Benzine is causing a lot of problems - look it up if you're interested enough - like for instance the rise in Asthma.

Links can't always be proven, so let's hope that proper, future research gets us the answers that we need. In the meantime, I support any parents' rights to make decisions for their own children. We all have, and use, that right, and I wouldn't want it any other way. I don't tell anyone what to do, and I don't do what anyone tells me to if I diagree with it. I make my own choices, and allow others the respect to make theirs, especially when the whole decision has to be based on such varied and subjective evidence.

Agree, with the pharm companies in control of research, there is little hope of getting the truth. 

It is obvious that MMR does not "cause autism" as in being the single cause of everyone's issues, but given that the swine flu vaccine Pandemrix was taken off the market as it caused narcolepsy, it is not outside the bounds of possibility that it may cause problems for some people. 8% of our DNA comes from viruses (probably best not to google that...)

My view is that autism is not a single entity, like measles or mumps. It is a clinical picture comprised of many different signs, symptoms and traits, which can be viewed as a spectrum. And therein lies the problem with much autism research. There are probably loads of different factors affecting where someone is on the spectrum, but researchers always lump all autistic people together, from those who need 24/7 nursing care, to a high functioning person with no medical problems and IQ off the scale (which obviously should not be viewed as a problem). So research into single causes of autism will always bring up insignificant results.

I have had various vaccines and am not totally anti, but parents really ought to be allowed to make their own minds up.

Temple Grandin has some very good advice on her website, and her book Thinking In Pictures. I trust her opinion way more than any pharm company spin. 

With regards to the triple MMR and other vaccinations given to children - we seem to be missing the point somewhat. All or most testing into whether these are good or bad come from firms or related firms being paid by the makers of these vaccines. That's akin to Pepsi paying a company to investigate if their drinks are bad for your teeth or not. The governments own advice and warnings also come from these so called tests. The real issue here is the mercury used in administering these jabs and the effects on an already developing childs immune system. Neither can be classed as good for them in any way shape or form. We do definitely need immunising from certain diseases such as measles which can not only be deadly but has the added ability to wipe out all previous immunitity to other diseases built up prior to contracting it. The immunisation brought into fight Polio came too late and the polio cases had dropped dramatically just before immunisation was brought in so the jury was out on that in any case. The main theme is that non-immunised children are a danger to immunised children - not true - this is an outright lie - how can a child that is supposedly immunised against somethiing - then go and catch it from a child that hasn't been? No one seems to think of this yet it is brought up over and over again. My son is diagnosed as autistic and I do not think it was a result of the jabs he received - yet I do think that it has hindered his progress and mercury in these jabs has a toxicity that is unheard of and is very difficult to remove from the body. Beware of so-called experts telling us what is right and what is wrong. What is needed is true impartial testing and if parents wnat seperate immunisations - the excuse that they "might forget" is just not a realistic argument at all - there is no reason why they cannot choose to have the jabs separately at all. It all seems a bit fishy that they are forced to do this. They are our children and we should be given the choice - not forced by a state to infect our children with dangerous toxins.

Scorpion0x17 said:

*This post has been edited by a moderator. Please contact community.manager@nas.org.uk should you have any questions.

Why is there no explanation for this? Is it just me or does the NAS delete anything that doesn't fit its manifesto? Seems pretty totalitarian for a charity (which also charges service users at high prices so not really actually a charity)

Autistic traits begin to appear around the same time the jab is administered. There is no causal link between autism and vaccines. There are hundreds of cases of suspected autism throughout history from way before pathogens were even thought of, let alone vaccines to cure the diseases they cause. And of course having autism is better than dying from MMR. It's actually quite insulting for you to suggest it isn't.

Hello, I know there are several comments already about this, and have read Spoons78 comment, anf feel the same.

My Son is 3 and Iv just had the Pre School Booster reminder come through the post.  I never knew anthing about the whole MMR and Autism thing when my son was a baby and he had his jab.  Obviously now its all i hear and see that they are possibly linked.  I know some say they are not etc, but anyone who does not have autistic children have to remember you dont know what its like to have that constant concern that there could possibly be a link.  My son has Autism, however, it is mild in many ways.  Speach is the biggest problem as he can not talk yet.   Like so many my fear is IF i allow him to have the booster, will his Autism get worse.  When you have a Autistic child and you see progress, no matter how small, its a MASSIVE achievement and the last thing you want is for them to get worse or go backwards not forwards.

 I do know that making sure your child is protected form MMR is important, but how can any parent know what to do for the best if you could protentially be making there condition worse.   Any goverment, medicle practice board, large pharmcy corporations etc etc will tell you they are not link, IF its in there interest not to (Do any of us really know the truth about what really goes on).  What i just dont get, is my son was just like any other baby and toddle, crawled, babbled, ate anything you gave him, etc. but once he turned two and after his Vaccine, everything seem to stop.  No speech, wouldnt eat (now only eats 4 things, (all sugary and no good for him, resulting in now having to have all his baby teeth removed, due to decay, where we just cant not brush them or get him to) he has bowl trouble, not toilet trained and everything eles that comes with Autistic traits.  It all just seems to coincidental.  Even when health visitors say there is no connection, all i think is, is it more than her jobs worth to say it is.  I just don't know what to think.  Is certainly something that does drive you mad thinking about, and totally understand how parents change there minds all the time. 

Of course i want to keep my son safe, that is a given, but the fear of his Autism getting worse and his life becoming even more challenging that what it already is, is also something i do not want for his sake. 

For the people that say, its better someone getting Autism worse than what they already have it, rather than scars of Mumps etc.   Its not better either way. 

Richak,

To address your concerns, I suggest you look at the other posts in this thread by myself, Hope, and zone_tripper. And, in particular read the articles linked to by zone_tripper:

http://www.badscience.net/2010/01/the-wakefield-mmr-verdict/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/may/24/mmr-doctor-andrew-wakefield-struck-off

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/dec/23/struck-off-mmr-doctor-quackery-award

And, regarding your son. Autism is a developmental disorder. Partly what this means is that the symptoms will not show up until certain points in a childs development, and they often 'regress'. These developmental points often coincide with the stages at which vaccines are routinely given. And whilst stress factors can often exacerbate the symptoms of autism, that does not mean that the one causes the other.

In short, your son would almost certainly have developed further symptoms, and regressed, at around the same time as he did whether you had had him vaccinated or not.

One is born autistic, and it is primarily a genetic condition.

*This post has been edited by a moderator. Please contact community.manager@nas.org.uk should you have any questions.

Hi, im looking for some advice regarding the MMR booster. I have a son with autism who is six, he received both MMR vaccines and had regressions after each one, after the first he stopped talking and after the second he was unable to concentrate and started to hand flap and pace. My daughter is now five and is showing no signs of autism, she had the first vaccine at thirteen months as we were unaware of my sons diagnosis at the time and he had not yet had his second regression as he had not had the second MMR at that time. I decided not to give her the second vaccine when she was three, however there is now a measles outbreak not far from where we live and im terrified that she will get measles, ive booked an appointment for her to have the vaccine on Wednesday but now im afraid about her developing autism. I change my mind on a daily basis about whether to give her the vaccine or not, anybody got any advice.

thank you very much guys, brandon actually had his pre school booster today, and i feel relieved to have made the decision to do so. He was so brave, didnt shed a tear! Thanks so much for your comments on here, im sure i made the right decision :)

I would recommend having a read of Dr Ben Goldacre's website, http://www.badscience.net/, especially the section on MMR and Andrew Wakefield - www.badscience.net/.../  

And here are some articles from the Guardian - 

www.guardian.co.uk/.../mmr-doctor-andrew-wakefield-struck-off

www.guardian.co.uk/.../struck-off-mmr-doctor-quackery-award

In short, studies past and present have found NO connection whatsoever between Autism and the MMR vaccine.  It is a myth that was perpetuated by Andrew Wakefield and his "study", which has been universally discredited amongst the medical profession, retracted by The Lancet, and discredited by other studies past and present.  

Andrew Wakefield is no longer a practicing doctor of medicine in the UK and legally cannot be a doctor of medicine in the UK, after he was struck off the medical register by the General Medical Council (GMC).  The last time I heard, he was working in the USA.  

(Coincidentally, back in the 1950s, there were similar scare stories regarding the Polio vaccine.  Today, Polio in the UK is almost unheard of; thanks to the mass vaccination of children.)  

Scorpion is right.

Booster jabs are important because the first round of vaccines do not always confer full protection.

I am 25, and my generation only received one round of MMR as babies - it was introduced in 1988. Two years ago there was a mumps outbreak at the nearby university because the students were vulnerable, having only had one MMR dose, and quite a few had received no MMR vaccinations. My brother, who attended the university at the time, was lucky; he did not get mumps (he had received one MMR), but his girlfriend did. Mumps, while usually a mild disease of childhood, can be serious for adults. Men can become infertile, it can lead to meningitis, severe abdominal pain, and other nasty complications. My brother's girlfriend had no complications, but it effected her studies because she was bedridden for a long time.

I got my booster during the mump's outbreak, and am very glad I did so. Vaccination is one of the most important benefits of civilization.

So when considering, please think about other people too, who do not want to get mumps. Pregnant women can also miscarry if they contract it.

Measles, on the other hand, can be a very dangerous illness, even for children. The second dose of MMR is very important to ensure that your child is safe. When I was 7 years old, there was a national measles scare, and all the children were offered a measles jab at their school, myself included. The children had only received one dose,  but after the children received the second dose of measles vaccine, the scare was averted.

I have Aspergers, and would rather have any form of autism than be left scarred by measles or mumps. Autism and Aspergers are genetic conditions, that develop in-utero. There is no evidence that vaccines are responsible.

Measles can kill!

There is little to no evidence that Autism is caused by immunisations.

In fact the evidence points to immunisations making absolutely no difference what so ever (in terms of whether your child has Autism or not).

However, the symptoms of autism can vary with environmental and biological factors - so when one is ill, or in pain, or under some other form of stress, one's symptoms may be more pronounced.

The risks associated with not immunising, in my opinion, far outweigh the risks associated with an autistic child's symptoms becoming worsened.

Hi Liz,

Welcome to the NAS Community message boards.

To find out if your son/daughter has autism/Asperger's syndrome they would needto go for a formal diagnostic assessment. This section provides further informationon getting a diagnosis:

http://www.autism.org.uk/about-autism/all-about-diagnosis.aspx

You may also want to look at our section that provides advice for parents, relatives and carers of people with autism.

http://www.autism.org.uk/living-with-autism/parents-relatives-and-carers...

Best,

Yousif