Offending people

(At great risk to my own nervousness, I reply, NOW, which may again begin "live chat"? Yet only to yourself, and then to "ElephantInTheRoom" ALONE, have I ever attempted this... and so, you may recall, that at anytime I might become NERVOUS, start to make grammatical errors, and then say that I must "Sign Off"...? Sorry in advance, for I have no idea what is about to occur!)

*ahem* ...Okay! Thank You for replying yourself there, Mister Robert123. I was *not* offended, yet I *was* confused. If I can, this can carry on (and on and on) much later, concerning *unintentionally offending people*...

...For instance, I also wanted to add:
Consider the real reason which I stated (aged 16, no more "weirdness"). (note: "DC" = myself.)

In the HeadMistress' OWN report, SHE would likely have written something like: "The reasons for discontinuing DC's education were discussed by myself and by DC, and DC agreed with me."
... which is to say, that despite my own arguments, she would have acted like a "BULLY" --- and no matter what I said or did, she would find NO END of excuses to "expel" me. (!)

I may be polite and logical... yet in LIFE, it is *not* always reciprocated.
This links back to "offending people", and no matter what is done, then someone who is "offended" as if by one's own existence, will find *absolutely any* excuse.
...Darn - this is a long Post! (sorry... *wimper*)...!

I apologiise if I have confused or offended you.  No offence or confusion was intended.

I think you are courteous on this site and I don't understand why a school would try to expel you.

Any other misunderstanding should be blamed on the automatic spell checker and spell corrector on this blasted smartphone.

Um... Good Evening, Mister Robert123... As you say that you are surprised at my post, I apologise for me in turn being confused at yours... Yet as the starter, I had looked forward to comment from yourself, considering my main Post (about pseudo-expulsion), and so I did not expect a reply *after* I had attempted to then close that digression...
I am confused because I *have* written upon a few other Threads that I 'give a Thank You out of courtesy', and have never gained quite such a response to it...?

Concerning my School-Post, and my own "behaviour" at school, I rather thought that I had correctly conveyed the idea that the HeadMistress could not find any "real" reason to discontinue my education, because I was never ever "badly behaved" (she and others had never mentioned that I was) (also I was bullied and extremely "shy" at school). However, I WAS "weird" (No Aspergers in the 1980's)... and since they could not explain that, they had then had enough of me.

If I misunderstand what you mean, then that is what I mean by apologising at my being confused at your reply.

I'm surprised by your post.  

It seems like a contradiction.

Common courtesy !?!?!?

You right a thank you post as common courtesy, yet you were expelled from school?? For your behaviour.  

I and many autistics have been accused of lacking Common courtesy.

This Post is written for the sake of common courtesy, to extend a great "Thank You" to those who replied (DeepThought and Blue Ray)...
My initial thought, upon seeing replies (*from real people!?!*) was:
"VIN
DI
CA
TION!!!"
... and I can see how this "Internet" business has its appeal. But I still cannot do "live chat", or E-Mail, or even "Private-Message", and this whole business still makes me as hesitant and nervous as when speaking face-to-face...
Yet I post this as a genuine Thank You; and in closing, I add that I eventually figured that the REAL reason for my pseudo-expulsion from school... was due to reasons nothing-more-or-less than the fact that I had just turned Sixteen, and so they were no longer Legally Obliged to "put up with me" anymore...(!). End of Post.

BTW I have made peace with my sister.  All this happened a few years ago.

Hi Robert123

In answer to your question, yes I do sometimes offend people unintentionally.

However in the scenario you describe I'm not sure that I'd say it was a situation that should have caused offence. You had decided not to go and therefore there was no scope for your sister to go. That's different to not inviting her if you were going (which depending on who you chose to invite in her place may or may not be offensive to her).

I'm inclined to agree with other comments that your sister doesnt understand your perspective on this. By shutting you out she's not being terribly helpful in trying to understand either.

Hopefully she'll calm down or someone will suggest to her to talk to you about it more rationally.

I think you may need to help her out a bit by explaining your perspective to her. Hopefully she'll understand that its not a personal affront to her.

I think often offence can occur when people make assumptions without bothering to check if they're right. Often by correcting the assumptions by explaining where you're coming from will be sufficient to resolve things.

I must admit I have a similar family member who tends to take a very emotional reaction on instinct. Many a time we've had to leave her to calm down before we can even talk to her about why she over-reacted. That happens for both me and NT people with her.

Sometimes people will be offended whether you're NT or ND. It's just their perspective on the world that means they are like that.

Just a short post-script.  My brother's wife is a narcissist, and very adept at manipulation and wrong-footing.  I think it was actually she who was behind the 'taking offence' regarding my not inviting my brother to the Registry Office.  She saw it as the done and proper thing, and convinced my brother likewise.  I don't think it would have bothered him too much - but he's her puppet, so he moves to her string-pulls.  Another issue came up with the wedding reception.  My ex-wife and I were both vegetarians, so we enlisted the help of a top-class vegetarian chef to prepare a fantastic vegetarian spread for us.  Once she found out, though, she said 'Then we'll bring our own food.  We eat meat, and you really should be catering for meat-eaters, too.'  In the end, to save any grief, we scrubbed the idea.  We just went to a local pub, where people could order whatever they wanted and we paid the bill.  They couldn't make a single concession on it, just for that day, in accordance with our wishes.  We were gratified, at least, by the fact that everyone ordered vegetarian food - except them!  She even took control when it came to my mother's funeral earlier this year.  Apparently, as her son and (at the end) principal carer, I had no right to invite non-family members to come to mum's bedside on the night she passed.  Comments were made about my inviting one of mum's other favourite carers - a woman who'd lost her own mother just a year earlier, and who treated mum as she would have done her own mother.  The poor woman was made to feel so uncomfortable that she decided not to come to the funeral.  That was the final straw for me.  I've now cut ties with them.  And if they're offended by that.... tough!

Can't sleep with worry so I'm still writing at this hour.

I will elaborate a bit further about my original post.

I was a very mature student.  And my sister who is older than me has worked at the university in the administration department for many years.  Later she confessed to me that dispute being there all these years she had never attended a graduation ceremony.  I feel very little sympathy for her because I care nothing for all this pomp and ceremony.  She on the other hand holds all these formal ceremony's and formalities in high regard.  She holds ever more extravagant birthday parties for her two children every year. Hiring out rooms in pubs and social centres.  ( I was invited to only one and that was as a chaperone to an overseas relative).

As for offending people.  Sometimes it has it's positive aspects.  Especially when I offended someone I dislike with very little effort.  But that's another story.

Disallowed Cynosure said:

3 - (After a minute or so) '...You are flaring your nostrils at me!!'

'Yes, it demonstrates respiratory distress on my part as a student, and inappropriate guardianship on your part as a headteacher.' 

Greetings. As I said upon a different Thread, I, personally, seem to "offend" some people simply by EXISTING. I attempt here, an example of some significance in my life, which I have always wanted to say to other people, just to find out reaction to the event. It sort of also relates to "graduation", certainly to schooling, and certainly to "offending people".

In secondary school, I was as if not allowed to complete one of my "A-Levels". At the end of the school year, I was one day invited into the head-mistress' office, where she fumbled successfully through reasons to expell me from the school. I asked her for any reasons why, and they were as follows:
1 - 'You fell behind in your work!'
My answer - 'I recently contracted pneumonia, as you know, and I have since made up for the work which I missed.'
2 - 'You are rude, and you STARE at the teachers, including at me right now!'
My answer - (I immediately break "eye contact", to begin upon the technique I know for "not staring") 'I look at you, Miss, as you look at me. Isn't it seen as rude to never look at people when you are talking to them?'
3 - (After a minute or so) '...You are flaring your nostrils at me!!'
My answer - (...I am, and to this very day, *still* utterly astonished at this given reason. Thus, I can only sit there, absolutely flummoxed, confused, and dumbfounded...) ....!

End. If anyone finds this post to be silly or unbelievable... then that means that you have indeed fully understood it. All of it is true. And it is NOT FAIR. Yet it took me thirty years, perhaps, to understand the *real* (unsaid) reasons for my being "let go"... But I wait to see if anyone here also cares or understands..?
That is all for now.

What I find most baffling about those particular types of instances when people become offended, is their apparent lack of concern for the person involved of which it concerns.  So for example, this is your graduation ceremony and as such it is up to you who you invite or even if you attend.  I too didn't go to my graduation ceremony and thankfully wasn't challenged by my family about it.

If someone I knew was having a wedding/ graduation or whatever, I would respect them enough to respect their wishes, whatever they may be and be thankful at least that they at least thought about me and made me aware of their plans, whether I was invited or not.

I have heard people who I work with constructing all sorts of emotional dramas over said occasions where they haven't been invited or involved at the level they perceived they should be.  All of it seems a load of nonsense to me that is just a waste of time and energy.

Robert123 said:

A recent example is how I upset me sister, by not inviting her to my graduation ceremony.

Beforehand nothing was mentioned or discussed.  I never had any intention of going to the ceremony.  The idea of getting dressed up and being seen on stage by hundreds of people terrified me.  Since the ceremony was optional I turned down the invitation and the two guest tickets.

A week later I got a very distressed phone call from my sister, trying to invite herself to my ceremony.   She had assumed from the beginning that she would be invited.  

End result was that she was so upset.  I got uninvited to her family Christmas.

From one level of perspective, it does seem odd that you your sister would be upset about not being invited to a ceremony that you did not yourself attend. If you had of gone her upset would of been quite understandable.

From another level of perspective, N.T.'s (and otherwise) tend to invest alot of emotional energy in imagining themselves being at and taking part in future celebrations that are viewed as being collective rights of passage. So it is understandable that your sister is upset about not being included in your success involving the graduation ceremony, being that it is somewhat obvious now that she was looking forward to it and being with you as such.

The fact you had not mentioned or discussed your sense of terror to your sister concerning the pomp and circumstance of the ceremony, this will of been part of the problem of course, as her expectations had gone the whole length of the course unabated.

I assume she does not understand autism/asperger's syndrome all that well.

Perhaps, as a recompense, you could see if the dean of the university would give you a private ceremony which your sister could attend, possibly?

Hi Robert,

Whilst I believe that no one has a right not to be offended, that's really a separate issue here.  Yes, I do it a lot.  I don't even really think about what I'm saying half the time.  In more recent years, I've become a little more aware of it, and afterwards - if I've said something that I think might have upset someone - I'll obsess over it, then try to give an explanation next time I see them.  Quite often, I've been told in response "Ah... well I did wonder what you meant.  I did think it a little odd."  Several times - especially if my brother is involved - I've had sharp responses from people.  For instance, when I got married back in 2000, we had the formalities done at the Registry Office and only invited our parents.  The reason being that my ex-wife was a pagan, and the main thing for us was the next day, when we had a pagan hand-fasting.  Everyone was invited to that.  My brother, though, was upset that he hadn't been invited to the Registry Office - even though my ex-wife's brother wasn't invited either, and he was fine with it.  We explained it all beforehand to everyone, too.  Still... my brother thought it was a 'slap in the face.'

I think it's a great shame about your sister's response.  It seems small-minded to me.  Almost - dare I say it - a typically NT response!