My country is getting destroyed by England

Mr T said:

Could it be that labour in Scotland was only lent the SNP vote to ensure that the tory party lost.

I personally think it was more down to the pitiful quality of the service the SNP gave the electorate while pilfering funds to line their own pockets - so much has come out about the finance scandals that it has led to many from the party having to resign in disgrace.

The party have been quite narcassistic about their one policy point that got them votes - independence - in spite of their lack of credible paths to have this actually work for the country.

As for their management of the NHS and public services, calling them amateur would be a compliment.

I think it is about time they were thrown out of power and had to come up with credible policies and ways to run the country as it is without the rallying cry of "freedom!" to get them votes. Using the bogey man of a Westminster government just isn't cutting it any more, especially when the country is a net recipient of aid from the rest of the UK.

IIM, this is a genuine enquiry, but what are the Catholic Churches objections to communism? I mean I can think of plenty myself, but I'm curious as to why Catholocs are so against it?

Yes the SNP is in a mess but its grass roots voters still want all the things that the SNP offered. I could be wrong but in my opinion labour is not trusted anymore that the tories in Scotland. They were bedfellows in the 'Indy ref' and a lot of political savvy people will never forgive labour for following its westminster masters dictate.

Could it be that labour in Scotland was only lent the SNP vote to ensure that the tory party lost. Things could be a whole lot different come the next Scottish election. Of course if Labour do a great job (laugh) then they might persuade voters in Scotland. The SNP do not have a god given right to rule and are looking tired after 17 years in power. Remember the SNP actually broke the model of the Scottish Parliament by winning an overall majority, when the system was designed for overall majorities to be nigh impossible. 

Red82 (Formerly Mellowjian) said:

 I think Labour voters were expecting change

I'm expecting change, but only after Labour fixes  the damage caused by  14 years of Tory self serving and incompetence. What I'd really like and what's fair and reasonable to expect; they're not one and the same. I have to  curb my impatience as best I can.

The mainly right wing MSM has made it very clear that its priorities are not those of supporting steps to improve things, but an increasingly pathologically disturbed,rabidly frothing at the mouth, spewing of hatred re anything Labour chooses to do.

I think part of the problem is that too many people are trying to "win" conversations. If you're going to raise a thought that's not down the middle of what's acceptable in the community, you have to be prepared for people to look for "gotchas". They'll ignore the context and look for something to attack instead.

Yes, Starmer isn't perfect. No political leader is. He is however a vast improvement on Corbyn- who was quite happy turning Labour into a permanently unelectable perpetual protest party. I'd love Labour to be more left wing, but that's not what the average voter wants. The lefts tactics of trying to push voters to accept too much socialism in one go  has been a massive political own goal. Gradual persuasion accompanied by coolly and calmly explaining the benefits of socialism would have been a far  better approach. Corbyn self promotes himself as this politically saint like figure. As evidenced by his failure to say 'not in my name' about the totally atrocious behaviour of many of his most fanatical supporters, he's anything but the saintly figure that he portrays himself as being.

Thanks. Just been ghosted thrice on dating sites after mentioning autism and I feel better now.

what did i say lol,  

Anyway, I only came back intending to respond to this thread once, so I’ll go back into retirement now.

Thanks for chatting.

100% agree re Labour.

Yes there is *some* difference between support for the SNP and support for independence but independence support simply hasn’t grown since 2014 despite the SNP weaponising every civil service department and the education system in Scotland. They won’t be as able to do that moving on.

Also they really have given up even trying to persuade the rest of us to support independence and are just concentrating on keeping the true believers onside.

Despite what Red82 is saying, the latest poll has the SNP and Labour neck and neck on 31% for the next Holyrood election. That’s never going to get a majority vote in Holyrood for another independence referendum (which WM would reject anyway). The SNP know this . They’ve tried every trick and manoeuvre and they just can’t persuade a majority or hold a referendum. The whole thing is a busted flush and most people just want a competent government that governs for all of us instead of for the million or so people obsessed with Indy.

Oh yes, lets "get" Labour, all these things they MIGHT do, they've hardly been there any time at all, whilst I'm no flag waving Labour supporter I do think they should be given a fair shot at governning and turning around the horrendous mess this countries been left in after 14 years of austerity. It will take some time, probably until towards the end of this parliament before we start to see any improvements in things like waiting times, NHS staff numbers or an upward swing in the economy. The British media have imported this stupid American idea of 100 days to make a change, a wildly optimistic and arbitrary amount of time, if you want to cut everything then yes you probably can do that in 100 days, but not if you intend to invest, re-energise and recruit.

I do wonder though if independence and voting SNP aren't a bit different? From what I see the SNP have been a bit of a failure, certainly since they lost the independence referendum, I think they're suffering from being in office for too long and haven't been kept on thier toes enough by other parties snapping at thier heels. This tends to happen to any party thats been in government for more than two terms, even when thers been a change of leader and the Gods know we've seen enough of that from the Tories since 2016. I think that there is an appetite for independence, but not the SNP?

I do feel disapointed in Keir Starmer though and have done since he became head of the Labour party, he just seems oomphless and a bit of a stuffed shirt, not that I think any of the rest of them are any better. The prospective Tory leadership candidates can line up like a row of gargoyles and let bile pour from thier mouths, but I would trust any of them with running a bath let alone the country.

You are attacking Labour for what they might do in future while ignoring the massive mess the SNP have already made and how the Scottish people have voted *every* *single* *time*.

Even John Swinney has gotten the message that they have completely failed to make a case for independence or answer even the most basic questions about it.

What the last election showed - along with numerous opinion polls - is that the SNP has wasted 17 years and we need to move on and solve real problems like growing the economy and fixing the NHS, not waste more energy on divisive and utterly empty identity politics.

So colluding with the Nazi party was OK then?

Being Irish and living in England, I do empathise, as a traditional Irish (non-Vatican II) Catholic - I utterly detest and despise the satanic and demonic ideologies of globalism, communism, Marxism, corporatism, socialism and other forms of leftism that are the very causes of these problems, which have been condemned long before Vatican II by many Popes as “moral relativism” and where the Catholic Church has many times before spoken out against the evils of communism, as do the peoples of Eastern Europe, but sadly, I also see how not only Pope Francis has embraced these evil ideologies, but I also see how Scotland has embraced all forms of woke leftism to the detriment of the Scottish people - even our military has been attacked from within by the infiltration of these demonic globalist driven leftist ideologies which is entirely by design , being awake to the truth and immune to attempts at brainwashing, manipulation and indoctrination by leftist and globalist propaganda, which I can clearly see as being by design, so my autism is a blessing in disguise in this regard, as I can see the truth of this evil far more clearly - the way back from this will not be started in any of our lifetimes and will only begin at least a century after we are all gone, it will be started by future generations, as we had all of our means of resistance both legitimate and otherwise taken from us, as we began to realise just after Covid (itself a silent version of WW3) - those actual babies of today who manage to grow up and manage to survive what is coming as the remnants, although inheriting a mess as we did, will find a way to return to long lost traditions and will use whatever is in their power and what is available to them to speak truth to power and will reclaim their birthright, even if their resistance costs them dearly, as they will know that their resistance is their sacred moral responsibility for the generations that come after them 

So what. A life with out controvercy sound prity dull to me. And if that upsets a few people it's mostly because they are too sensative.

Unknown said:

Yes the SNP do want to do that and the sooner it happens the better! Break apart the union! I want my country to become a republic like Ireland.

You realise official SNP policy is to leave the UK but retain the monarchy? Do you even know what their polocies are? If scotland did leave the UK the SNP wouldn't last long as a party. They don't have a great track record running scotland. And every time you point they out they just blame westminster. And don't get me wrong westminster has its faults. But compaired to the north of england they get far more spending per capita and do far less with it.

Another point i intended to make in my first response on this thread about blaming "the English" is that Labour got a higher share of the vote in Scotland than it did in England. So there's a stronger case for saying that Scottish decisions are being imposed on England.

I work for a large American technology company that employs people all over the UK. I work every day with people from all over the UK. We are the same people. When you hear a politician or one of their followers trying to drive a wedge between English, Scots and Welsh people, know that they are liars and only doing it for their own benefit.

The title of this thread and many of the OPs statements are just pure ignorance and racism, of a kind that have been deliberately incited in Scotland by the SNP for the last 12 or 13 years. It really triggers me. Sorry if that annoyance has come across too strongly in my replies.

I think Wales, Scotland and Ireland are lucky in that they can blame the English for all thier woes, who do the English blame? We were just as oppressed by an uncaring aristocracy as any from other nations, we've had our history taken from us and had it replaces with a colonial diatribe that we're supposed to be proud of. For many English people our history starts with the supposed high points of the industrial revolution and empire, both of those things us ordinary folk were mear cannon and factory fodder for, we were cleared form the land and into burgeoning and filthy towns, paid a pittance, many English fled abroad for the same reasons as the rest of the "British". As far back as I can trace my family on both sides we were ordinary peasants, people who worked as farm labourers and other often menial jobs, it seems as though my people have been here a very long time, possibly since the Romans maybe even before, so all we've seen is change in overlords and no profit for us over the centuries.

So next time you want to blame "The English" for your woes and historical atrocities, remember that there are plenty of English who would agree with you and would like someone to blame. So lets remember those who are really to blame are the Anglo-Norman overlords who pillaged all our countries, depopulated huge areas, like in The Harrowing of the North, or people who were cleared for sheep farming, forced into unwanted military service for wars we probably didn't understand. Were left impoverished as people made magabucks for the cities at the expence of ordinary people. Suppressed us, like at the Peterloo Massacre, The Peasants Revolt and numerous other occassions.

I think devolution, federalisation or independance would give the ruling and political classes a massive and much needed kick up the backside and maybe even free the English people from a false history to a folk history and maybe they will find out who they really are and will be able to shake off the shackles of empire and conquest.

Saying that OTHER peoples’ taxes should be increased “because they can afford them”  when you have no clue what they can afford sounds exactly like self interest to me.

In Scotland our taxes have already been increased several times.

We pay 42% higher rate tax at £43k instead of 40% at £50k as in the rest of the UK, we pay the additional rate tax (45%) at £75k instead of £125k as in the rest of the UK. Anyone earning over £27k in Scotland will be paying more income tax than they would in any other part of the UK.

And this has barely raised any additional revenue because it reduces the amount we get from the block grant. The SNP knew this but did it anyway because they knew punishing the better off would play well with their supporters.

As for what someone on £80k can afford - how can you possibly know?

And how much is enough? What percentage of other peoples’ incomes would be enough for you to be satisfied?