Published on 12, July, 2020
There is a behaviour that happens on this forum and it is worse than trolling because the poster may or may not be genuine, and you care about them but then no matter what you suggest to try help them they won't accept it. They might as well preface their original post with "whatever you say I have accepted my fate and it is bad, it just sucks to be autistic, you should feel bad too" and have it over with.That may not be their intention, but we know intention counts for nothing compared to the result. So here it is the lesson learned today, don't wast your energy trying to help those that don't want to be helped. Yes you are right to care, yes you are right to be confused but you need to recognise the cut off point.You cannot save a drowning man by reaching out to him if he won't reach back. For our own sakes as autistic people we need to maintain our own emotional energy, and self preservation is not selfish.Yes there was a specific incident that set off the need to post this, but it's not just about one person, there are others who have and will come in here and engage in this behavior. And whether they mean to or not it harms the community here because it creates the same effect as feeding-the-doom-trolls-comes-at-a-cost and takes it's toll on our collective mental health. It's great to care, I wish more people cared, but please keep yourselves safe and healthy first.
Neither did I.
I Sperg said:So pipe down sparky, this has nothing to do with you.
I didn't realise you had installed yourself as judge, jury and executioner here.
I am happy to disappoint you.
That very accurate assessment was indeed, "called for" as you put it.
Begged for, pleaded for. Over some considerable time, in fact.
So pipe down sparky, this has nothing to do with you.
Iain said:I expected better from you I Sperg.
Be more lenient, Iain. Probably Spergy is accustomed to speak like that to the support worker that comes to his council house to check on him. Poor worker, I feel sorry for them!
I Sperg said:you look like a thoroughly miserable and unpleasantly pathetic person.
Spergy, maybe you are accustomed to speak like this with your family, but I am not related to you, thankfully.
I Sperg said:From this side of the screen you look like a thoroughly miserable and unpleasantly pathetic person
That is uncalled for.
You do realise this forum is for people on the spectrum who have a wildly variying way of looking at the world, interacting with their emotions and interacting socially, don't you?
You've been there so you probably realise that being nasty to someone is not going to help them reassess things or want to change.
Also telling them to snap out of it shows a lack of understanding of how the autistic mind works.
I expected better from you I Sperg.
Fair enough but I will say, that if you are using the word of Shakespeare to retort or the words of Kipling, you are not using your words. You are not using your initiative to find ‘magic’, you are using the correct words put in the correct order by a more-correct mastery, that the person you are retorting will have no way to combat, save for the use of greater rhetoric.
I would also argue that if another had words beyond his own mind and the greats, he would not be drowning in the first place, I do not say that cheaply by the way civilisations rise and fall with the power of rhetoric.
What I do say is that the west can’t even comprehend the same heights of rhetoric anymore, which is the larger reason why balances get lopesided, which is the reason why we are in decline and are the prey of tyrants.
We'll just have to chalk that one up to different experiences then. But even if I thought that worked it wouldn't get me the degree of social battery I'd need to spend on any single conversation to find some magic words. I have an extensive vocabulary, that has never been an issue, but even with all the "want to" in the world I just don't have the spoons to sift through my entire lexicon. What I say is what you get, a conversation with me on the day is not like an essay I can chip away at over a week.
You say that but I’ve turned people around, from situations when nothing I say or would-do would’ve worked, I’ve quoted a phrase or clause from the bible and there is this baffling disarming/disengaging spark that occurs sometimes.
I think rhetoric is a ridiculously under-appreciated science, because no one really respects it as a science, I think it is the first art a person should learn. It’s not about saying it better or worse, it’s about saying it correctly and there is a ‘correctly’ in communication, there is no ‘pinch of this and that’ in language, there are documented formulas to correct communications.
I would say that there is almost total illiteracy in society today, when compared to the grammar and vocabulary of old, most people professional and amateur have no idea what peaks there works would yield if perfect literacy was used. I am unquestionably one of that number of sub-literate and I am completely aware of it too..
I understand why you might say that but I don't think it's a lack of better rhetoric. I think even the best logic and pathos is not enough to save a particular subest of those that do not want to be saved because their mind is so far in crisis and closed it couldn't see a solution even if it were handed directly to them. It's like they have mental health tunnel vison and the only light they perceice to be at the end of it their mind percieves not as daylight but an oncoming train.
"the road to Hell is paved with good intentions"
Do you know that what you did is dangerous and illegal?
I was taught that, but it's a hard world and most people like favourable results, a lot more...
You crossed a line earlier from simply expressing your frustration and annoyance, (which I understand very well thank you!) to attempting to interfere in me helping someone find information a possible alternative and effective treatment for a life threatening condition.
From this side of the screen you look like a thoroughly miserable and unpleasantly pathetic person.
Like me in my twenties.
Snap out of it, or you'll end up living a truly nasty life.
It's the thought that counts, right?
Maybe, maybe not, I appreciate the thoughtful intention of it though..
Maybe the "thoughtful advice" you are giving is total rubbish, and the recipient does not want to argue with somebody unable to understand the problem?
I think you can save drowning men who won’t reach back, it just required an equal measure of persistence to match their intention, then you require better rhetoric and/or technique. Additionally it carries a likelihood of drowning yourself in reaching for the unwilling. I will say that trying/failing to save a willing-rescuee, carries the greatest risk of drowning, sometimes when I am dealing with drowning men that refuse to take my hand, I feel as if they are doing so because they can see the potential of creating the latter-rescuee in me..
The thing is: You don't know how many people are reading who have the same problem and for which your advice IS a lifesaver.
And sometimes when you discover that you've formed some of your personality or personal policy on shaky ground and re-evaluate things, then suddenly a lot of things can slide into place, including an understanding of previous advice given that you might have rejected as irrelevant at the time.
The behaviour that you speak of is detailed in the book I recommend in my bio, It's call "why don't you, yes but" (YDYYB) or something very similar, and the given description of the state of mind of the people who play this game is quite illuminating.
It doesn't discourage me at all, I think I understand your post. My point was more to try and put the point of view of a depressed person. Negative and potentially slightly unfriendly seeming. At least that's how I am. I just hope it doesn't discourage you. Sometimes people react to advice badly, but they just need time to absorb it.
All the best, eyes