Recovery from Asperger's - six months along.

For 55 years, I had Asperger’s though for most of my life, there was such a label. I was diagnosed as "just different" but I did not fit any label.

For six months, I have  ceased to have this condition This is not a nice, easy “happily ever after” as I have to recover from the condition. A current example is my mother is dying and I have to learn how to grieve “normally” instead of the old way which is – in many ways, much easier. I have to learn how to use sections of my mind I have never used before. You do not magically become normal.  Besides which – there are still many advantages to Asperger’s.

One person with a mere six months of a new way of thinking is not a magical success – life is a long road.  Being ABLE to think normally does not imply any experience in living normally. It does not even mean I am required to think normally.  I have no idea what the future holds.

This is not a post of “I have a magical wand to fix everything.”

I don’t have such a wand and  life goes on – but I think on the whole, I prefer normal to Asperger’s.  But then, I have the advantages of a very well developed area of mathematics and logic – which few people have. That remains.

Those with loved ones with Asperger’s ... or those with Asperger’s need to hold on to hope that a solution comes – which is good. But it is NOT a magical fix.

We begin with a NEW definition of Asperger’s. With the sure and certain knowledge that this definition is WRONG. It is one part and ONLY one part of a complex thing.  I am sure and certain that more knowledgeable experts with better resources are going to develop a better definition to what they now have.  But for all the idea that this is WROING – the idea is powerful enough to allow me to recover from the condition.

The definition?

 Asperger’s is a malfunctioning switch in the brain which switches from the mathematical/logical part of the brain to the normal part of the brain.

 

The source of this was one of those incredible “serendipity” moments in medicine and it came about with a few people with epilepsy so bad that they needed brain surgery.  They had a tiny part of the brain with malfunctioning neurons which sparks an epileptic fit and they needed to know the exact point in the brain which needed the operation. Each patient needed to be scanned and wait for a fit to identify the unique point which needed surgery.

Obviously, they had to wire up the patients and then wait for a fit. And also obviously, it is boring. So they gave the patients a variety of puzzles to do to while away the time.

And it was in this state that they found that normal puzzles like crosswords and the like – there is one pattern. However with mathematical puzzles, that part of the brain switched off and the ”mathematical”  part of the brain kicked in.

I heard about this second hand ... from a friend.  And I thought about it. I decided “That describes me – I am always in mathematical mode.” My "switch was stuck."

I spent a  few months “re-evaluating myself” using this idea.  It fitted me so perfectly that I could understand why I did what I did.  Eventually, it allowed me to find a solution. The solution was based upon “knowing why I behaved like I did.”

 ***

This part is written more for the experts.  I have come to you with a report of “this is the issue” and a self imposed experiment “I might be able to fix this” and the outcome “I have succeeded.”

This is a thesis, then a hypothesis, and finally a ‘trial.’  It means that I can encourage others to experiment and duplicate. If it can be checked, experimented, and duplicated, then you  can ... go forward.  Your part is ** also ** a journey of a thousand miles. This is the first step ...  of something profound. I cannot see what is coming but it is far wider than merely Asperger’s.

In order to encourage you to take this first step. I will give you a few things I found as  this thing about “brain switches"  ... is only partly investigated. Nobody has applied neuroplasticity methods to these switches – except me.   

The first thing is that you can create a simple survey. Give the people the idea above. Get your list of common symptoms ... and ask “how well does this fit you?” Remember that this is EXACTLY what I did – see above.  

A second thing – look at the self help techniques for depression which targets the same switch. It moves people away from depression by forcing them into the logical.  Look at the change from emotional (depression) to logical which is what they describe.  Imagine being stuck in the logical. You never go to the emotional. Doesn't this describe Asperger's? 

The third thing – they can induce Asperger’s by means of magnets. They did not realize it when they did so – they thought they were trying to develop  instantaneous calculations. They failed ... but that is not the issue. I have added in what they actually did – induce Asperger’s - they had NO IDEA that this is what they actually did.

It means that with this external magnetic switch, you can actually think like those with Asperger’s.  Before you could say “they think differently”. After you can say “They think in “this way” because you can experience it for yourself.

But do remember that you have entire  areas of your  brain are already developed, and they remain .. though “muted” when the switch is switched. People with Asperger’s do not have these other brain resources. Still – you ought to be able to get an inkling of the difference in thinking if you undergo that experiment for yourself.

There is actually a surprising amount of supporting evidence when you know what to look for.  All I have really done is to say “look here.”

***

The next part of the process is the method for changing the switches - and I have used the sitch of one and only one fo my secondaty symptoms.

In this case, the symptom I am dealing with is hypersensitivity to sound. It was ... debilitating to me. So let me describe  my responses. If I was in a store and there was the background music and someone played a DVD or a song – I could not cope with the dual sounds. If I went into a restaurant,  I would often leave as though someone had beaten me up as I tried to deal with the background sound levels. If someone whistled, I had to stop what I was doing to deal with the sound.  I know  I was nowhere near as bad as others – but it did make it very hard to go into a lot of situations.

I could not learn a new language, and I avoided many social settings just because of the sound issues. 

Now ... I had tried the usual things and treatments they had devised in order to create a “filter” to the sound. The theory is that the body can hear through the ears and also through the skin .... and they wanted to filter sounds  in the brain to differentiate between background sound (skin sounds) and foreground sounds (ear sounds).  They were not successful with me.

So we go to the beginning. We learn  by two processes – the carrot and the stick. A baby has a bauble set before it. The baby desires it and reached for it. The baby does not know how to use arms and legs and the random neurons cause the arms and legs to reach for the bauble. When the baby accidently touches the bauble – it gets a reward and reinforces that neural path. If it does not – it get frustrated and tries again. Eventually, the reinforced neural paths are what we have learned.  So we get a reward when we succeed. That which is reinforced, remains.  The law “Use it or lose it” is often used in neuroplasticity.

To RELEARN the process s slightly different. We have to STOP using the reinforced path – and to try ‘something else”  and learn again. You also have to choose to remain using the new way and not the old as you might have TWO neural paths instead of one.

So I had the goal. I wanted to cease listening to the skin and only use the ears. And I needed a method ...the "something different." So  I decided to ask “why the change from skin to ears?” And the answer in evolution is twofold. One is that ear sounds is directional (ergo the reason to develop ears) and the other is that with interactions with things like dogs, we no longer needed to hear with the skin. I postulated that we had evolved to turn off the input from the skin. So the problem seemed to me that I had to “turn off” the input from the skin.

So I had to change FROM ...  what I was – hypersensitive to sound.

I had a deliberate and specific idea of what I wanted – to switch a specific area of the brain which is located as “part of the way the brain deals with sound” and I wanted to “turn off a switch.”

And I developed a visualization technique. I thought hard about the issues, pictured in my mind a switch – pictured myself turning the switch. I pictured that in turning the switch – that the I no longer responded to the “skin” ... you could also use a picture of pulling a plug from the sound system.  I then  ... contemplated these things in quiet for a few minutes.  Thinking of the random neurons ...

And I aslo pictured the test environment – namely to deal with two sounds at once. I had a particular store in mind where it was very difficult for me to go to that store for that reason.

I "succeeded" when I got the reward, when I actually achieved what I desired. Namely the ability to go into an environment with background sound without freaking out.

If you are interested – this is biofeedback – except for the brain rather than for the body.

 

It took a few tries but it worked. I had learned how to switch that particular brain switch.

A goal, a definitive methodology, a test environment and  brain switches. Add in visualization techniques ... shake and stir. That is all there is to neuroplasticity of brain switches. We can switch the various  switches in the brain – some we can turn on, some we can turn off, and some are meant to swap on and off.

Brain switches allowed me to fix Asperger’s. It allowed me to fix a couple of “hypersensitivity issues” which are not directly Asperger’s but are common.  I have only dealt with the brain switches which are of interest to me.  But there are SO MANY brain switches and I hope there is some researcher who is willing to take this new idea of “directing our own brain switches”  into  all sorts of directions.  The potential is ... as limited as the brain. Which is limited but  ... far more than anything we have previously thought.

 

That which is impossible – suddenly becomes possible. No magic wand, no “buy my machine” ... no secret knowledge where you send me a cheque.  Merely ... the pen is mightier than the sword. A little knowledge ...

 

PS = I do recommend learning biofeedback as the body is a really ... easy area to get the “test environment” needed.  If you can learn how to use the brain to control the body, it is far easier to learn how the brain to control the switches in the brain. Very similar techniques.

Just because it is impossible - let's do it anyway. You ** Know ** you cannot cure asperger's. Yeah. 

Have fun ... and change the world. Or just your world.

  • soldersplash said:
    But what did you actually do?

    (I've read the whole thread and it's just not clear to me)

    I had wondered this too, I think I vaguely got that it's something to do with convincing yourself that you don't have Asperger's, copying what NTs do and it will retrain your brain.  Of course, this doesn't work.

    I just couldn't read through everything OP wrote because it made my head spin, it was so convoluted and almost like American Evangelical sales talk that just waffles on so much that you lose the thread and meaning very quickly.  Almost like The Emperor's New Clothes spiel.

  • One of the "symptoms" of aspergers is talking at people rather than to them, also of simply expounding ideas or knowledge without appreciating whether the person(s) on the other end of the conversation understand or want to say something.

    I wanted ask Mark Davis what things he feels particularly are indicators of a successful cure. But in particular, does he now feel able to connect with people socially, and engage in a way that they appear comfortable with?

    Does he feel he is now successful at conveying meaning to others?

  • But what did you actually do?

    (I've read the whole thread and it's just not clear to me)

  • I do not have to know the real goal to know that what they TELL me is the goal is false. One is testable.The other is opinion.

    My opinion as to the real goal is not relevant.The point was that what people tell you is the goal, is often not the goal. People might not only say it is the goal, but also believe it is the goal, but even so - often times it is not the goal. People usually do not know what motivates them and what they really seek to achieve.

    The second point - in what way is it possible to convince anyone of anything? Think of a TV commercial, or a poltician. They have only a few things - one is testifying of themselves and the other - to have something testable to prove. 

    Words are easy.

    As for being excited over a cure for Asperger's - don't be silly. I have already achieved all I need to do on that point. I find a few things interesting as I compare "before" and "after" and this gives me insight into what I do and why I do it.

    That is interesting. I want to know what really motivates me. I prefer to judge me. And I am not what I think I am, and what I think are my own goals - are usually not my own goals.

    As for the rest -

    Suppose - just suppose what I said was true. And if it is true and you tried it - you would succeed. And suppose you did try and succeed - what "thing" would I get from it?"

    Would you pay me? Give me glory? What would I get from it?

    As the answer is "I would not even know - unless you told me." The only person who would get an advantage is you.

    OTOH supposed you tried it and it failed - then you would have lost nothing and my reputation - for what it is worth - would be mud.

    So I am risking my reputation - in order that you might possibly get an advantage and at worse, not be any worse off.

    So instead of trying to influence you - I have set up a situation where I have everything to lose and you have everything to gain.  

  • You, my friend, have successfully stepped into the fantasy world :p

    It's an interesting read, but I too have trouble following your logic.
    I'm confused by your example of the three questions applied in the workplace. You state that the company said their goal was "efficiency", yet the agenda was different... I can see how that applies, as most people do this - but I was waiting for some sort of explanation of their actual goal and whatever may have come out of this realisation... Instead you leave it at "they said their goal was efficiency, but I realised it was not, the end" - anyone can do that, it's not much to do with aspergers. People just don't seem to realise how intelligent others can be.

    Call me a skeptic but I don't believe in this "cure for aspergers". Besides, I'd rather develop a cure for society - I've always been perfectly happy until others stepped in and ruined it for me with their idea of what people should be like. I get that you're saying "we can think like normal people rather than be them", but that's not breaking any new ground.

    I'd recommend explaining things a bit more and completing your examples, because the way you're writing, I don't know if this is your fault or not (you could just be excited about this cure) - I've encountered many sociopaths who write exactly the same way, though I'm not diagnosing you with anything, it automatically flags you in my brain. It seems like you prefer to talk technically but skip a few beats whenever it gets to the juicy facts and examples.

    I'm trying to follow your theory in post #12 - Many paragraphs and I have deduced that "you figured out you were always thinking logically", "you couldn't look into the eyes of others", and "you decided to start looking into the eyes of others" - that's not indicating a cure for anything, all you're doing is focusing your eyes on something, which yes feels pretty awkward to someone with aspergers but can easily be overcome even by strong emotions like anger, or desperation.

    Really it seems to me that you've just figured out the magic technique of going out and making friends on the weekend, lol.

    I won't be following this post with much of my energy, it did seem interesting but I can't shake the feeling you have some kind of agenda. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you are on to something, but it's not a cure for aspergers, you're just having trouble expressing the complex and abundant thoughts that are going through your head right now.

  • One of the problems with doing something which nobody else has done is that you "try something and it works."

    When you begin, you have a host of assumptions, ideas and concepts. You use these to find a solution - whatever it is. But when you succeed - the very assumptions and ideas are proved false. You now have more information - success gives you this "more information."

    Open ideas are not to convince others - or to limit them to what you have experienced. It allows ... data ... and opportunities. I presented DATA - not opinions or discussions.

    I think people want me to sell them snake oil - here is "THE ANSWER." This is because "normal people" have set up a system where you are expected to sell them snake oil. It is the easy way. It works within the system. Everyone knows how to deal with things. You either buy, or pass and the onus is up to me to sell. And this presupposes that one man on their own can find not only what nobody else has found - but their first guess is "THE ANSWER." And they prove it because ... the claim is that it worked with me.

    I did not come here to sell.

    But as people want sell, sell, sell, I think I will.

    A brain is not like a computer. A computer has hardware - mother boards and the like. It has programs from the operating system which is loaded in.

    But the brain is different. It is self developing in the hardware - and is self programming in the software.

    We know a little about the brain – only because there is so MUCH to learn. Part of it is neurons and paths. Part is areas which do certain processes such as "deal with the eyes" from "input from the eyes" to "interpretation of the images" until we "see."

    Part is "brain switches" and what we can do with them. Little info is available on the subject.

    All of these hardware things form in a baby in a way we do not yet understand - though better people than I are working on the problem. And I expect - they will be for the next century or two.

    The software is in the same boat - we automatically ought to learn to use these parts of the brain. They theorize that the way it occurs is the carrot and the stick and "output driven" learning.

    The example of one medical model suggested that animals are able to walk as they are born (within seconds or minutes or hours) but humans have to learn how to use their limbs.  They theorize that a baby sees a bauble and desires (the carrot) and seeks to reach for it.

    When they randomly use their arms and legs - occasionally they touch the bauble. This is a "success" signal ... failure to touch is frustration (the stick) and we try again.

    As we reinforce the "we managed to touch" we have reinforced the pathways in the brain and through such "reinforced pathways" we learn how to use our arms and our legs.

    Consider for a moment how difficult it is to scratch your ear, lift a cup or walk and there is an incredibly complicated sets of pathways which have to be formed to do such a complex action. There might be a zillion neural pathways and it takes a long time to learn.

    ***

    The concept I have presented is like all new ideas - we rethink them and throw out the first guess (I am glad I did not sell it as "the answer.")

    My first guess was enough for ME. But as I used the techniques on other things ... the theory I used showed a few problems. So I have chenged the theory.

    What I have ** actually ** done is debug the brain.

    Or more specifically - debugged the software I myself self programmed into the brain I was born with.

    And like any debug - we start with the specific area of the brain. In this case - I theorized that the specific switch ** identified by science ** as the switch between the logic and the normal was always in the logic mode.

    It means I am not debugging my sight, my hearing - just "this process" in the brain.

    The first part of the debug process is go to the process.

    The second part of the debug process is to work out where the data fails. If your system does calculations on four hundred products and only ONE product causes problems - you only work on "the one product with the problem." You look at the "fault data" rather than the correctly working data.

    In this case - we already have the answers -we do not look into the eyes of others. After all - what "logic" is in the eyes of another?

    So do the debug process.

    The debug process means that we set ourselves to learn - (decide NOT to do something) and work out what we want to achieve (success/fail) and run the "fault data" and change the program ** only on the fault data ** until we find and correct the faulty programming.

    This is what I did - and my "fault data" was "looking into the eyes of another."

    Debugging an existing program is usually fixing one or two lines of data. In this case, the data ought to be analysed and when it comes to a point - the software ought to say to the brain switch - "switch."

    In my case, the switch worked fine - but the software never activated it.

    So I added in - ONE line of data to the programming. The one line of data said "In these situations – process the data in a different part of the brain."

    One line of data is ONE or TWO neural pathways. Compared to a zillion in learning how to scratch your ears.

    ***

    How do we check if this idea works? Predictions.

    If it is correct - such debugging of the brain is almost instant and permanent. It is just another thing we have learned. Learning ONE path is easy, quick and permanent - whilst learning a  zillion takes lots of effort and time, but is also just as permanent as it also is "learned."

    ** This is what occurred. ** first tick.

    it can be applied to hardware and software problems. I presented the hardware problem of hypersensitivity to sound. The problem was rectified in software but I think the actual problem was hardware.

    I also applied it to mild hypersensitivity to movement. That is software only. it worked on that also.

    I also applied it on a thing called kinaesthetic movement - the ability to know where your left hand is (actually the left or the right hand parts of the body.) There is a distinct "therapy" I created in lacking such knowledge. Turning off such a thing can be useful - for a short time in certain situations.

    This also worked. I can turn it on and off by simple concentrating ... NOW that I have learned "the trick."

    So again - four situations of debug and all four get a tick.

    PS - my original ideas did not cover these four situations - only two.

    Next prediction - if this is "all I did" - just debug my own self programmed brain - then I have not changed who I am, or lost my ability to reason - or become normal.

    IT DOES imply I can now use other parts of the brain I have never used before - and these areas are now required to be "self programmed." Six months is hardly enough time to do the tens of zillions of the pathways it requires to learn.

    Again - that which is predicted is what occurred.

    So yes, the theory I have just presented explains all the things which occurred and I gave from pure experience.

    Now I have a theory and what occurred and the theory predicts ** everything ** that I observed in myself - and which I documented (without comment – which everyone criticized me for so doing)

    ***

    Now we have the documentation of what occurred ... a theory to explain ...

    And a correction. I presented the idea that the
    IF the people who have undergone the magnetic process of switching this switch into logic mode (as the science paper stated) and the people did think in such a mode - they did NOT think as people with Asperger's.

    You see IF ALL you have is problem solving - then in any situation - you have found a solution. It can be - using this site - a process of getting from the taxi to the door of the clinic. This is "the solution."  There is only the one solution.

    Normal people take the "solution" given in logic and use it - sometimes adapting and changing. They would not lose such an ability whilst being stuck in logic mode - even with magnetic control.

    A person who ONLY has logic is driven to solutions and this is our motivation. If our goal is shopping and the outcome is 'to get the product at the cheapest price' a failure to go to the right shop, or wait until the sale next Tuesday is a failure to succeed.

    Normal person - a desire for a bargain.

    Asperger's - self worth in succeeding in solving the equation and thus a demand for the bargain at all costs. You have correctly analysed and solved the equation.

    So no, a normal person cannot think like a person with Asperger's. Not even with the magnetic control of the brain switch.

    They can appreciate the way we think. They can explain the way we think. But that is not quite the same.

    ***

    One final point as I am "selling." NOBODY wants to be normal - including me. What we want is often "things others have" such as social interactions and friendship. Or the ability to appreciate art ... or whatever.

    We want certain things "normal people have" but we do not desire to be normal.

    Fortunately, you do NOT become normal. 

    IF you wanted to be normal - then someone would have tried this at any cost. Nobody tried it - therefore they did not desire to be normal.

    I can again put in a personal experience. When I developed the first theory - the one which gave me a possible sollution - I was scared ... because "what would happen if I succeeded? Would I lose the ability to think in models?"

    Now, with the more specific theory, the prediction is "no you do not lose your abilities." You also do not change your personality. And this prediction direct from this theory is ** again ** what occurs. You do NOT lose anything.

    In fact, you do not become normal. I like to think in logic and models. I have no intention of ever becoming normal. I will continure to CHOOSE to think using logic and problem solving abilities.

    But I ALSO do like to be able to relate to other people. That is a definite plus. I am MORE than just Asperger's.

    But this raises a very important ethical point. The technique I have developed (by pure chance) can only work fairly late in human development - teenagers and later. It seems to me that Asperger's is ** of great worth ** both on  a personal level and also to our society. Great advantages, but also at a great personal cost.

    If it works on others - when should we try to teach such methods?

    Ethics ...

  • ...there is also the possibility that someone is deluding themselves.  People are always surprised if they find out I have Asperger's.  Even on the phone (which is something I hate having to do) I have been told by a psychologist that I come across very well.  Having a good level of vocabulary and intelligence allows the masking of much, that doesn't mean that I don't have Asperger's or that if I kid myself I am normal for long enough it will be so.

    Every so often I am reminded that in the wrong environment or with an adverse situation I struggle to control myself.  2 days ago my husband came home from work and started banging the front door repeatedly because he said it wouldn't shut, I found it overwhelming.  I got immediately very stressed at the noise and for the rest of the evening everything he did made me mad, it's that sort of pre-meltdown state which if not released is difficult to control.  Then yesterday something he thought would make me laugh and be a joke, upset me and I perseverated about it all day.  And my eldest child complained to me that I find noise so difficult to bear (it's pitch as well as volume) when she was laughing.  Yet you could see me at a meeting conversing with multiple people looking very professional and eloquent and people would probably call me a liar if I told them I was on the autistic spectrum.

    Denial can be a big thing in some peoples' lives, that is all I will say.

  • If I can add a further point, this dialogue has featured on several forums besides here. On one of them things got very heated.

    The reason was that it was perceived as being implied that all you had to do to cure autism was - in effect - a little bit of application of mind over matter.

    If OP could give some thought to this, please. OP appears to to have had no formal diagnosis of Aspergers, but has previously self-diagnosed and then had a change of mind. But that one experience is hardly representative.

    Autism/Aspergers manifests in many different ways, and in differing severity (spectrum), and no one person can really put up their own experience as having universal value. You cannot say, look at me, I managed....

    Many people on here have tried many ways to improve their lifestyle, who would be deeply offended by having their troubles belittled in this way.

  • I've been reading OP's other posting on google groups (alt.support.autism), whether that's him writing (as Mordecai), or someone else's ideas he has copied. It is easier to follow there.

    Firstly he has been made aware of tests on people with epilepsy who were given different tasks to occupy themselves during sessions, to see what parts of the brain were most affected by minor episodes, and it was found that mathematic and logical tasks were most associated. But while epilepsy is sometimes co-morbid, its not the same thing as autism. You cannot claim that autism only applies to mathematical/logical thinking, just because some people with autism have an aptitude for numbers.

    The second insight lay with changes in mental processes for handling back pain - fair enough in that context, but what has thuis to do with autism?

    The third component is Barbara Arrowsmith-Young on neuroplasticity, who wrote the book "The woman who changed her brain" www.theguardian.com/.../barbara-arrowsmith-young-rebuilt-brain 

    Arrowsmith-Young was writing about learning disabilities where people have difficulty making connections, such as with dyslexia. Her ideas about brain stimulation are about improving the brain capacity for people with those kinds of difficulties. This has nothing to do with autism, where many scientists are suggesting stimulation could be reduced as a solution.

    Mordecai deduced from these three components that the brain gets stuck. This could be resoved by thinking logically, imagining a switch which turns the brain off, then devising a new thought pattern. This apparently cures autism. Well Scoooby Doo....

    One ten minute application of this has changed his life for good. No further research, no studies carried out, he just tried it and wheeeee it worked for him, so now he's telling everybody how clever he's been! Hope all you psychiatrists and psychologists are listening to this....apparently it is that easy (or is that why nobody seems to take adult aspergers seriously.......?).

    He sure puzzled the other discussants on that forum. And the thing is Mordecai explains it a whole lot clearer than current poster. Schizophrenia springs to mind here.

    The other respondents attempted serious discussion on the amount of underlying research - just a ten minute experiment. But Mordecai just kept coming back with pages of rubbish that went on for months. Do we have to repeat the exercise here?

  • I too find his style really confusing.  It's this type of writing that really throws me because of the amount of cognition required to sift meaning from the floweriness.  Bearing that in mind, I don't think I did too bad a job!  But as OP has avoided answering my points I can't be too sure.

  • Don't know what OP's literacy style used to be like, but the current style is bewilderingly uninformative.

    OK so I have three questions to answer - what, how and why do they do it?  I must have lost the thread somewhere....what is "it" ?

    Could you get someone else to post on your behalf, something that clarifies things, so we can engage in a helpful discussion, because at the moment there is nothing that means much to me here...... maybe others can understand, but I'm not finding it easy. Can anyone else put this more clearly for OP?

    Also OP, if you weren't formerly diagnosed, and just adopted the label, how do you know the label no longer applies (since it is your perception of then and now).

  • All I will add, is that I see what others do, and over time have worked out reasons why they might do them, but it has never helped me and as I said, I am worse now (regressed) than I ever was.

  • You must remember that there was NO label called asperger's for most of my life. It is rather a recent thing. Every label they tried on me failed - as I did not fit Autism or any of the other labels. I was just diagnosed as different most of my life BECAUSE there was no label.  This was from experts, family and friends, and continually over the years.

    When there was a label - I did not care to get a formal diagnosis. The label just allows others to know how to relate to me ...  and my family likes a label as they are now able to explain the differences.

    I also liked the label as it allowed me to compare what I did to others and said "hey - that fits me." But I much preferred the later idea of a brain switch as not only did it explain the differences, it gave a CAUSE so I could track between cause and effect.

    I much prefer working models rather than static formulae. I often used to recreate the mathematical models from the original principles rather than remember a particular theorem.  So "stuck brain switch" was far more powerful than a description of how a person with Asperger's grieves rather than the generic answers based upon observations by the normal.

    I wonder how my family will react to the new reality? I have not seen my family for over six months ... and that is not the isolation of Asperger's as such - but rather about chronic pain and the fact I live far, far away. When you do not know from day to day if you can even cook a meal ... let alone leave the house. Recovery from back problems is like recovery from asperger's - things change and even if they change for the better, change costs in pain and suffering. Sometimes, of course,  the price is worth it.

    Ah well - new reality. Everyone will have to adjust. I have the most to adjust to. But even with pain, life is fun.

    I will give you something I invented over thirty years ago. Have you ever found it hard to understand what a person wants? They tell you that they want something but when you give it to them - you find that they do not want it? I found this most disturbing at the time.

    I have three questions ...

    What do they do?

    How do they do it?

    Why do they do it?

    I ask these three questions - time after time in every situation - refining things on each repetition.  And I always find what they do is not what they say or even ** think.** Self deception is actually normal.

    It is a good tool which has stood the test of time. Forget what they TELL you - look at what they do. In fact it is a most disturbing tool as not only do you get right answers most of the time but you can explain in detailed logic (ah one of the strengths of Aspergers - logic) why the answer is correct.

    A little present ... perfectly suited to me and I think to others with Asperger's.

    An example? In every area of a national company that I worked, my department was always the best. It was always closed down. When I developed tools to allow a 25% saving on call centre times ...  They tell you "this is the goal" for the company (efficiency), and the reality is that it was not the goal. I told you - Aspergers has many advantages. I was VERY good at what I did.

    But I think I will give a little more. Go to the newsgroup alt.support.autism and look at a post from august last year called a partial cure for Asperger's?

    You ought to be able to pick up a few ideas - including the fact that you can do an analysis of litterary style which shows some of the changes in me over even such a short a time as this.

    But here is a question. Why is it that NOBODY will try it?

    You have three questions. Go for it.

  • There is always the chance that someone was misdiagnosed too Longman.

    I am always someone to look outside of traditional schools of thought, because I believe traditional beliefs are often very blinkered and there are agendas behind a lot of things, but this just strikes me as ridiculous.

    A tiny toddler with Asperger's is not consciously deciding to behave that certain way, it is because of the condition, OP sounds as if he is stating that it's just a thought pattern that we need to retrain.  And he hasn't answered any of my points.

    I'm outta here.

  • Sounds like it comes from popular media representation of experiments on mice - like so much stuff reported - I blame the mice......

    news.sciencemag.org/.../rewiring-autistic-brain if this link works, is an example

    Essentially you can unlearn autistic traits, not merely by coping better. But its great saying it, doing it is far harder. We are each "inside" our own brains - we might have some idea of how AS gets us into trouble, but un learning is likely to be pretty difficult.

    I've gone on here about facing my demons, but I'm at the mild end, and I think I'm improving my coping strategies, not curing myself. But hey.....maybe they got my diagnosis wrong. I cannot see anything wrong with me. Its other people that have the problem......

    Of course it depends how aspergers you are to start with. OP says he had aspergers 55 years but was diagnosed as "just different".  Ah right - does he mean no official diagnosis - just thinks he is?

    Who has decided he now doesn't have the label? Was that change self-diagnosed as well?

    To be honest I don't think this diatribe is relevant to this forum. But I guess that's enough to get me stoned for being unsympathetic.

  • Of course it is impossible - ask any expert, any skeptic ... until it is done.

    And after it is done ... then they these same experts will explain why it has not occurred until they are forced to accept the new data. 

    And I can assure you that everyone tries to tell me that I have not done what I have done because - it is impossible. You have done ... whatever excuse they like. They explain to me what I am "really thinking."  They explain to me that they know what I am really thinking on the grounds that I cannot convince them what I am really thinking. And they prove they are right because "It is impossible - therefore I have not done it - therefore there is some other reason, theerfore this is what you are really doing."

    Unfortunately - I have this saying. When words and actions disagree, believe actions. When rhetoric and reality disagree, either rhetoric or reality is wrong and reality is NEVER wrong.

    I think I prefer my maths professor. One fact can overturn the most profound and well thought out and accepted theory.

    Fact - you can recover from Asperger's. 

    Of course, you do not know it is a fact. I do. So you doubt - as you should. Don't worry, reality is rather powerful and that which can be proved will be proved ... one way or the other.

    The gap between "this is the problem" to "This is the sollution" is called neuroplasticity.

    More, it is a specific type of neuroplasticity - the type which changes lifetime learning disabilities - which can be applied. I recommend the book "the woman who changed her brain" by Barbara Arrowsmith-Young as this was my introduction to the subject. Those who devise techniques on themselves to meet their own needs are usually the ones I go to for answers.

    You can also look up her site on the web - she deals with applied neuroplasticity to people with life time learning disabilities, and in changing the school systems to permit these ideas to be taught in schools. Go and read for yourself.

    Because you can actually train the brain and this includes growing new neurons, then just because there is a hardware problem in the brain - it is not the end of the subject.

    All that has occurred is that another brain hardware problem such as dyslexia can be fixed and not just "trained on how to cope with it."

    People with dyslexia and other "learning disabilities" were also told it could not be fixed. They were given training on how to cope.  Some still are.  But as the new ideas on neuroplasticity are coming out and some places are teaching children using the new methodologies, they actually cease to have the learning disabilities.

    Let me explain what brain switches do. They direct thoughts to certain areas of the brain.

    If a part of the brain is not working - the problem might be that that particular part of the brain is malfunctioning or is damaged.  The usual neuropastic techniques try to envisage the way that part of the brain is supposed to work and devise a series of exercises in order to use it - which causes that part of the brain to relearn and also to grow the neurons to repair itself.

    ** This approach to Asperger's has proved to be only a coping mechanism. **

    I have also  pointed out that this is not the problem which is why the various existing processes fail to actually cure the condition. I have pointed out that the actual problem is with the switch.

    Apply the same concepts to the switch and then you suddenly have thoughts flowing into parts of the brain you have never used.

    ** THIS ** works.

    I actually stumbled onto this in fxing the back after whiplash - another "impossible thing." It turns out that back problems are in the brain because posture is how we have learned to move. And learning is ... in the brain.  Now THAT is subtle, and cause and effect are far apart.   Talk about "outside the box."

    That is a wonderful training ground for both biofeedback, and also the indirect approach. It also trains in 'relearning" which is another idea I had to invent from the original research.  It also teaches patience as you apply a specific stimulus and have to wait for days and weeks as the effects in the body pan out.

    But that is another story and another "impossible" until it is done. It is not quite done yet. I have a bit to go there.

    Indirect is the key ...  and the brain technique which happened to be successful for Asperger's was an indirect one.

    You are going to have to think otuside the box.

    Here is a tip. Go and learn how they define asperger's. It is actually a functionality - these are the symptoms which we observe as belonging to a group of people who behave in a particular way.  

    They have found their defintion by category. Thus they do not know the cause. They know it is in the brain and unless you were on the cutting edge - "everyone knows" that the brain is the brain and it cannot be changed.

    Except now they know the brain can be changed (Neuroplasticity) - and now you also have a new defintion.

    Talk about thinking outside the box.

    Have fun. Use the very skills of Asperger's. You can think. You can think outside the box. Do a bit of research. Remember to define your terms.

    You can devise your own methods and I think - THINK that as asperger's is a rather fluid concept - there will be many methodologies which can be devised. And need to be devised.

    As with learning - the carrot and the stick.

    Here is the carrot. You CAN change - it is possible. I TESTIFY it is possible.

    Let that idea grow. Find an answer for yourself.  It is NOT impossible but you are going to have to do something different.  But remember that you are more than Asperger's ... and have FUN.

  • I am confused by your post, a lot.  Asperger's is a lifelong condition, you cannot cure it.  Like anything, you can increase your ability to tolerate things, to a point (sometimes cutting yourself off from them can make it harder to adapt in the long run).  My auditory sensitivity is nothing to do with my skin.  My ears literally hurt when I hear too loud a volume, and afterwards I get a horrid pulsating, dull sort of drumbeat in them.  I believe my dad was on the spectrum, he had signs of auditory hypersensitivity and he ended up with debilitating tinnitus, which is incurable.  Clearly exposing yourself to sound does not cure auditory sensitivity, but has real physical damaging effects.

    I agree that the brain has a certain amount of plasticity to change behaviours, but the wiring of Asperger's and autism is very different overall.  There is hyperconnection in some areas and hypoconnection in others.  You cannot rewire a whole brain.

    I don't understand your approach, whether you are in some sort of scientific field or whether this is a layman's opinion.

    I have spent my life to date, trying to be normal, doing everything other people did and exposing myself to everyday situations.  All that has resulted is Aspie burnout, not changing my wiring and curing my Asperger's.  In fact, my traits are worse than they ever were.

    I'm a bit unclear on what you say about mathematics.  I have a very creative brain and am appalling at maths.  I have always struggled with maths and therefore really do not fit the mathematical genius Aspie stereotype.  Therefore I am clearly not in mathematical mode.

    I also disagree with your thoughts on Aspies being logical and unemotional.  I am emotional and both my children who are on the spectrum are too.  In fact, strength of emotions can be one of the biggest problems.

    Speaking of neurofeedback, I recently had a qEEG and they recommended neurofeedback, but with the proviso that it is not proven to work.  And they were selling the stuff.

    So I disagree with pretty much everything you say, even whilst I admire your dedication to thinking it all through and hypothesising.  It is the Aspies of the world that think outside the box, come up with new ideas and inventions and your creative thought, which may or may not have some sprinkles of truth in there somewhere show that side of an Aspie very well.

    You cannot 'fix' Asperger's, all you can do is try your best to fit in - which will always be affected by the support you have, the environment you are in, and your stress factors.  It's there for life.