Mindfulness

I have experienced sleep paralysis. It is an awful feeling. It hasn't happened many times in my life but I can remember it happening at least 3 times and it was really distressing.

I cannot relate to ArchaeC feeling like their mind is detached from their body though.

I do have ADHD as well so definitely possible. Some say mindfulness can be helpful for ADHD but that has not been my experience.

From what you describe it seems quite clear that your brain works in a way that you are hyper aware of things, and would make mindfulness hard or maybe would make the practice undesirable.

I remember my sister making similar comments about meditation.

Could this be ADHD related as well, or maybe some other neurodivergence besides autism ? (not saying it is not autism-related though, just wondering.)

ArchaeC said:

I feel as if my mind is detached from my body for much of the time

During some periods of my life this was also true for me. It also reminded me of Sleep paralysis  which sometimes appears in my life. (most recently this week)

I was wondering whether you or others have experienced events of sleep paralysis as well.

I can be aware of things that NTs aren't, but I also know that there are also things other autists notice that maybe I don't.

Using showering/bathing as an example, I'm inclined to think most NTs probably wouldn't stop to think about water coming out of a shower head unless there was an issue causing the shower not to work.

Although I greatly enjoy having baths, I find that unless we're in the midst of a heatwave, I don't enjoy washing my hair because I dislike getting my head wet. If I had no issue whatsoever with the skin on my head getting wet, then I probably wouldn't give it much thought unless the water being used to rinse my hair was too hot, too cold, or I found that my water supply had suddenly been turned off.

I can only speak for myself, but I find it easier to filter things out if they are things that don't cause me issues.

During the Covid lockdowns, it suddenly seemed (to me) that there were a lot of NTs who had become more mindful of their surroundings, discovered a thing called 'Nature', and that being outdoors in nature was therapeutic. It was as though they were suddenly noticing things that they had previously not giving much, or any thought to... things that we (NDs) notice because we find them fascinating, or maybe anxiety-inducing (like flickering lights).

For NDs, I don't think Mindfulness is always a bad thing. If it makes us more aware of things that cause us issues, it means we can choose to explore ways of learning how to deal with them. 

I think things like mindfulness and meditation take a while to achieve and that people need to be guided and taught and given a chance to talk things over when doing anything like this. Some people take to it like ducks to water, but others really struggle, espically realising how noisy your own brain is and the world around you. i would be very very wary about recommending meditation or mindfulness to anyone with any sort of disassociative disorder. Even if you don't have a disassociative disorder it can all still be a bit overwhelming, you do learn to control your thoughts and not let outside influences get to you, but it's easier said than done and takes time. I find the attitude of so many people towards mindfulness and meditation quite flippant and judgemental towards those who struggle with it, often blaming them for not being able to do it and being dismissive. In Bhuddism meditation is not universally taught, it is believed that not everyone is in the right place for it and other practices may be better.

I definitely notice every little sound and annoying lights. I also notice far too many smells that others don't. It is annoying and stressful at times.

In respect of the shower I never have time to think about the water or do I want to stay in there longer.

I don't follow mindfulness as it originally was set up.

However I do find I can relax listening to some music. I also find walking in nature I can switch off. If I go for a walk and a bird hops on the path in front I stop and enjoy watching it. On a fine day I can relax in the garden and enjoy the songs of the birds.

I spend a lot of mindful minutes per day. Its the best way of feeling grounded. When you are not sensing fully things quickly become overwhelming. Sometimes I get around this by simply allowing them in to be more overwhelming, or wash over you. Like something as simple as looking at moving water, but also incorporating another sense like sound or smell. Why you focus on on one or two things together the mind can become really focused again. Sitting on a porch watching heavy rain (while staying dry) is a good way to do this. Or going for a walk after the rain.

I have done full programmes of mindfulness. It has never been remotely helpful.

Expecto_Patronum said:

This concept of emptying your brain of all other thoughts seems an absolute impossibility.

Not impossible, it is just that you have not been trained to do it yet.

I find meditation is a good way to still the buzzing mind, to allow for a laser focussed line of thought when needed.

Mindfulness is the cognitive skill of sustaining metacognitive awareness towards the contents of one's own mind and bodily sensations in the present moment

So while your senses are giving you all sorts of inputs that you are very aware of, mindfulness will let you make more sense of what these mean. 

For example if you are standing in the shower and feel the water running down your back and arms, trickling over the skin but your chest and front of your legs don't feel the same way then mindfulness and make you notice these differences and consider the cause - i.e. that you forgot to take off your baseball cap...

It is also of use in situations where your body is highly stressed through anxiety and it lets you notice the collective impact and try to look at the causes of this, and make a decision as to whether or not to do something to reduce that anxiety.

It requires a calm and balanced approach to looking at the situation, taking the input both sensory and cognitive and making an impartial decision as to how to adapt.

It is very powerful when mastered but I think many people lack the patience to learn fully or dismiss it as hokum.

I agree; it takes patience, and it may not be the right time, or something that is useful to you. I practiced many years, I don't do it right now, and it is fine for me.

Some people find it easier with music, or using specific objects they can concentrate on in the way described above. If you find it very hard, it is fine to skip it.

If it causes stress not being sure, carry a little notebook. Write down "locked door", then 2 minutes later when you wonder you can check. It might help.

Rather than check 6 times and then spend 2 weeks on holiday wondering, like I did once.

So my difficulty with this is I cannot filter out other things. I notice so many stimuli all the time. This concept of emptying your brain of all other thoughts seems an absolute impossibility. When I have previously tried mindfulness I do not end up with a calm sense or tensions reducing or anything like that. It just makes me feel worse.

I'm just unconvinced that mindfulness is compatible with all brains.

You state some interesting examples here. Although for sounds, smells, unpleasant visual stimuli etc I very much cannot filter them out. Examples such as not remembering whether I locked the door or not are very much apart of my life. I think this is again because I cannot filter other things out, it does mean I'm never truly paying attention to one thing which does leave me unsure.

I have tried mindfulness multiple times but it's never had a positive result.

I think of mindfulness as: observing thoughts, observing sensations, observing our experience.

When people shower, most think of other things. Their attention is elsewhere. Some are very depressed and simply are like "gone" while showering. (This is me sometimes.) Some may also be worried, angry, tired.

When applied to thoughts, it is like "looking at your own mind" without judging: observing how your thoughts pop in, and then disappear. That would be mindfulness of mind, and it is one part of meditation. 

Mindfulness does not require all thoughts to vanish, we non-judgementally observe the mind, or sensations.

How conscious were you of your socks, or which t-shirt you are wearing etc. etc.? We can shower without "really" noticing it.

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Noticing things other do not, is not really mindfulness, that is different --in my view-- as I described above. That would be higher alertness, awareness or sensitivity.

I am wondering if the account in the video of not noticing water in the shower is the same sort of thing as people who drive  through traffic lights and afterwards suddenly wonder if they have driven through a red light. Apparently that’s a common phenomenon, and although people haven’t driven through a red light, they just haven’t taken ‘active’ note of the green traffic light because they are thinking of other things. I can’t imagine anyone not noticing water coming down on them in a shower, but it is plausible, especially if they were preoccupied with other things. I think it would be like people not being sure if they took their tablets or if they locked the door. People are on automatic pilot and muscle memory allows actions to be performed without much mental effort.

I feel as if my mind is detached from my body for much of the time, yet at the same time, I am acutely aware of physical pain and the feeling of anxiety in my body. Meditation helps me intentionally focus on those physical feelings and thoughts, then let them go. That and other forms of mindfulness allow me to slow everything down and be ‘in the present’ rather than be worried about the future or dwelling in the past. That said, at times when anxiety overwhelms me, or if I have sensory overload, I can’t meditate, so something else like shutting myself in a darkened room or going for a walk in a quiet place to observe and note nature and wildlife is helpful. It also helps to watch and note the irregular pattern of my dog’s breathing when she is asleep. Intentionally focusing on something that doesn’t cause arousal is like giving your brain a holiday. Mindfulness can take many forms,  but it is a skill that needs practice and patience.

Autism Guernsey has this to say about mindfulness. https://www.autismguernsey.org.gg/post/why-mindfulness-can-be-hard-for-autistic-people-and-how-to-make-it-work-for-you

I don't think they were so much suggesting that you wouldn't notice getting wet but the sensation of the water hitting you. 

I'm sure it may work well for some people but I do not find it works well for me.

Noticing that sensory stimuli bother me makes me even more hyper aware for sensory stimuli which puts me more on edge not less.

It never takes me out of my head. I cannot concentrate on just one stimuli. I may be able to think about the warmth of the drink and whatever but it does not stop me analysing ever. My brain is one constant loop. And I can be having full blown conversations and still being horribly aware of the ticking clock in the corner or that my sock doesn't feel quite right.

So yes that may be the main idea of mindfulness but my point is I don't think it works for everybody.

Yes I absolutely agree. I'm sure there are many people that find it really helpful. But nothing brain related can ever be one size fits all. I find it irritating that it is pushed so hard. It should be common sense that the same things aren't going to help everybody.

I think mindfulness is another thing thats been taken out of its context and is improperly taught, encouraged and used by people in the mental health world looking for a quick fix. You're not the first person I've heard of who finds the same, how can being any more aware of a flickering light and just how anxious and angry it makes you be of any help? It can be even worse for people who have more serious mental health issues, it can encourage people to listen even more to some very unhelpful inner voices.

Mindfulness is a Bhuddist practice and is taught in a particular context as part of being a Bhuddist. Ov=bviously there will be people here ad elsewhere who find mindfulness incredibly helpful and calming, but it's not for everyone, everywhere, all the time.

I expect it is not that they don't notice things, it's that they don't *really* notice them. 

The shower is just jump in, get it done while thinking about the day, jump out. You didn't really experience it, you just did it as an aside. I can't believe you wouldn't notice at all that you'd got wet.

But if you don't have any particular sensitivities, perhaps it is no big deal.

Noticing things does not make you relaxed by itself.

I think there are two ideas:

1. You notice how your body is responding so you can mitigate or avoid something. Like noticing you feel tense when the overhead lights are too bright, so you wear a hat.
2. It you focus on the sensations, like drinking a nice cup of tea, so you don't think of other things. So you feel the warmth in your mouth, the taste and texture, then swallow and feel the warmth spread. Then feel the calming effect. It puts you in the present moment and stops you analysing. You just notice being, rather than thinking. I think this is the main idea. It takes you out of your head and into your body.

If neither of these are correct, then I have no idea what they're talking about.