Do you worry about germs and getting ill?

Unknown said:

I have been referred to CBT by my doctor,

A word of advice here, CBT in its default form seems to not work for many autists - it needs to be adapted to cope with our peculiarities so I would ask the person/company providing the CBT how they can adapt if for autists so it doesn't potentially end up wasting everyones time.

Unknown said:

Normally get a cold maybe 2-3 times a year. Doubt it has anything to do with my hand washing and clothes cleaning,

The transport mechanism for these viruses is largely airbourne and it relies of the tiny water droplets coughed, sneezed or even breathed out to sellt on a surfcace, be touched by you and get to your lips, eyes or nostrils to be able to get into your bloodstream.

You can also breathe them in but a mask is the most effective barrier - not 100% but about as good as you can get practically.

I have IBS too, anxiety is one of the worst thing for it too. Maybe drink some chammomile tea to clam your worries? Fennel tea is good when IBS gets crampy and bloated, it's a natural anti-spasmodic and anti-nausea herb and you can buy in tea bags from the supermarket.

You are of course absolutely right. I hate thinking about it but it is true, some dirt is good, it helps build up resistance just like getting ill from time to time helps build up resistance. A doctor told me washing your hands too much damages the skin, it can strip the natural oils from it apparently. I get it but I still don’t like it. That must sound weird and I can’t really explain it, I just really hate being unwell. Not just sickness but colds as well. When I’m ill I hate it, I just rest in bed and wait and hope it all passes quickly.

On the grand scheme of things, touches wood, I’m not ill much. Normally get a cold maybe 2-3 times a year. Doubt it has anything to do with my hand washing and clothes cleaning, it’s more I avoid people, especially little children. I go out regularish but not very much really. I prefer to stay inside when possible. The outside world and its germs do scare me so much!

I have been referred to CBT by my doctor, this is supposed to be really helpful when it comes to anxiety in general so I am hoping it can help me with some of the above, as well as my anxiety disorder. Time will tell.

TheCatWoman said:

If the thought of things like norvirus worry you then include plenty of natural yogurt in your diet and drink kombucha to keep your gut health good and balanced.

Thank you so much for the info. I am in need of improving my GI health, it's not the worst but it could be a lot better, I have IBD and with the added anxiety I get both cause my stomach a lot of discomfort.

Hello Toxic 

Thank you for sharing your concerns with the Community. I'm sorry to hear that you can feel anxious in this way. You may like to have a look at our information from the NAS on Anxiety, which includes ways in which you can seek support if you feel this is something you need:

https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/topics/mental-health/anxiety

All the best,

ChloeMod

I'm from the little bit of dirt does you good school of thought, I do wash my hands properly though and am very clear about cleanlines in the kitchen and bathroom.

If the thought of things like norvirus worry you then include plenty of natural yogurt in your diet and drink kombucha to keep your gut health good and balanced.

I'm not a fan of lots of laundry products and washing everything at a low temperature, partly it's because I'm allergic to many laundry products, but also things like dust mite eggs in bedding are killed by a 60.C wash. I never use anything like detol laundry products and only use anti-bac products sparingly and in certain circumstances, I think it could be a mistake long term as the bacteia might evolve and grow resistant. I also think it's a bit of greenwashing to tell us all to save enegry by washing clothes at low temperatures of longer, but to use more products, those products have to be manufactured and moved around th world, its the left hand paying the right.

I agree that sinse covid lots of people are more aware of germs, but I think it's a good thing as anti-biotic restistance is a big issue and I think we became sloppy in our habits because we knew we had medicines readily available to cure things. But if we practiced the sort of basic cleanliness followed by our grandparents and great garandparents generations and took the time to clean small wounds and look after ourselves then we wouldn't need half as many medicines or products.

I used to be pretty relaxed when it comes to germs, because I had a very good immune system and barely got sick. Since Covid however, I tend to get sick a bit more often. That might be related to the long isolation which prevented the immune system from getting confronted with germs, but also to stress, little sleep and I had quite a poor eating schedule for quite some time (used to go nearly 24 hours a time without food on a regular basis). Now that I’m getting ill more frequently, I also worry a lot, but mainly because I can’t stand the thought of my schedule being messed up and the worst thing sensory wise is running a fever. Being ill is a sensory disaster and it takes ages for me to get back on schedule, thus creating anxiety around being ill. It often got to the point where I knew I was getting ill but chose to push through without consideration because of the anxiety about loosing track of my routine.

I have worked with bacteria, very dangerous parasitic pathogens (that kill half a million people a year) and human blood for most of my working life. I am autistic, but I understand disease and the reality of risk. There is an opposing rationale to the one you have described. This is that in isolating yourself from minor infections you are doing two things that could be detrimental. Firstly, if you are not giving your immune system anything to work on, it could increase your chances of developing allergies and autoimmune diseases. In the absence of challenges from bacteria and viruses there is a greater chance of your immune system targeting benign foreign proteins (from peanuts, gluten etc. - allergies), or your own proteins (autoimmune diseases). Secondly, if you are not giving your immune system anything to work on then it will not build up a  'molecular memory' of minor illness viruses and bacteria. Many minor illness 'germs' are related to more serious illness bacteria and viruses, so exposing yourself to more run-of-the-mill diseases can give you a measure of protection from more serious disease.

As a practical example, I would usually have four or five bad colds a year, plus the occasional bout of 'flu, when I drove to work every day. After I changed to taking the bus, I was exposed far more often to disease causing viruses. As a result of this increased stimulation of my immune system, my annual incidence of colds dropped to one or two and I have not had 'flu since (since 2008).

Iain said:

the 0.1% left beind is still a very large number of viruses

overwhelmed & underwhelmed ( O & U ) said:

shouldn't that be 99.9% of all viruses known to mankind at the time of production?  

I feel more than happy to continue banking the significant win (from my perspective) in respect of the 99.9% that these products claim to address.

Iain said:

Washing your hands with soap still leaves 8% of germs behind too

Soap, yuk! :)

One of the best gifts that I ever received was a Dettol No-Touch Hand Wash dispenser and refill, which claims 99.9% protection against germs.

As the name suggests, it dispenses the hand wash via a presence / motion detector. For many years now, we've used these for all handwashing at home.

I'm not suggesting this should be the norm for everyone, nor that how I deal with my OCD issues is either ideal or objectively defensible.

But I have more than enough other issues on my plate, at the moment, without trying to address these too (both my CBT therapist and, later, psychotherapeutic counsellor shared and supported this view).

So these sit comfortably enough with me (alongside my various other personal choices) as helpful coping strategies - for the time being, at least.

Bunny said:

Our washing machine uses a detergent that is "scientifically proven to kill 99.9% of all viruses".

This is true of viruses that require oil as their medium for transferral such as Covid, but the 0.1% left beind is still a very large number of viruses ( still millions of them).

Washing your hands with soap still leaves 8% of germs behind too - much less effective than we though..

The 99.9% is a great marketing headline but in reality there are still a significant amout of germs left.

Source  - https://blogs.unimelb.edu.au/science-communication/2020/06/10/what-0-1-is-left-when-you-kill-99-9-of-germs-with-soap/

Bunny said:

99.9% of all viruses

shouldn't that be 99.9% of all viruses known to mankind at the time of production?  

Iain said:

Why not burn the clothes as there is no proof that a normal wash cycle will kill the virus or bacteria (typically needs boilding temps to do this).

That's not necessarily true.

Our washing machine uses a detergent that is "scientifically proven to kill 99.9% of all viruses".

I'm also a big fan of Dettol antibacterial laundry sanitiser (which is just added to the fabric softener compartment, with or without the fabric softener itself). This product is "formulated to kill 99.9% of bacteria in temperatures as low as 15C".

These products provide me with great - and very convenient - comfort.

Iain said:

Can you look at the science behind it and prove that your approach is statistically significantly better at defending agains the virus/bacteria?

Therefore, yes.

I relate with this soo much! According to a counsellor I saw it’s to do with anxiety, OCD and a little emetophobia with me. So probably autism related too! Since I was little I’ve dreaded getting sick and try my best to avoid it, always washing my hands etc.

You might want to seek professional help for this, a counsellor may be able to help you figure this out, and give you some tips on how to manage it. As mine told me you need to expose yourself to germs to build up a resistance to them.

You definitely aren’t alone with this though!

I think many people have got more obsessive about germs and illness since Covid too.

I feel that (provided it doesn't get to the point of obsession beyond reason) it is actually better to be observant with one's health because you'd more likely be noticing things, and to be fore-warned is to be fore-armed as they say.  

It is a fact that the NHS continually put out public information telling people to be aware, so in my view this is an extension of it, and represents common sense. 

However, you do say 'worry' and if it gets to that level it is worth speaking to a professional about it.  Awareness is good, obsession not so good, and maybe a trip to the GP is a good idea if the latter is the case. 

Hello Toxic, Bunny is right on the money about OCD - this is a classic germophobe symptom such as you describe.

Toxic said:

I'm always told I overreact over this but to me it’s normal and makes sense to do this

When you refer to this as normal, consider the logic of it, Why not burn the clothes as there is no proof that a normal wash cycle will kill the virus or bacteria (typically needs boilding temps to do this).

Why not wear a hazmat suit when out in public as this will be a more effective barrier to the germs. Etc

The point is you have chosen your line for what you think is acceptable and it is different to the vast majority of others.

Can you look at the science behind it and prove that your approach is statistically significantly better at defending agains the virus/bacteria?

Also is completely avoiding it healthy? Your immune system will not get any exposure and hence your resistance will drop if you maintain your barrier approach.

Toxic said:

An early example was when I was at school a girl came in class and said she had been ill yesterday and I got so frightened I nearly had a panic attack and moved to a different table

Would you do the same now?

To me it is a response that will be seen by the majority as hypocondriac and unsympathetic. Imagine the response from the poor girl returning to school and being treated like a lepor.

The response comes from your mind and is a difficult one to control (hence why it is called obsessive) but it helps to understand well the science behind it so your rational mind can have more of a chance to control the impulses.

I would imagine a therapist (who specialises in autism and OCD) would be your best bet to develop more control over this, but only if you want to go down this route. You may think it is acceptable (clearly others close to you don't think so) but your decision is the one that matters.

Toxic said:

Do germs and the idea of getting ill worry you?

In short, yes! :)

I do many similar things - and my ASD assessment report noted traits of OCD for my GP to follow up on.

The NAS says "Obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD) can affect anyone, but research suggests autistic people may be more likely to experience it."

More info:

NAS - Obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD)