New member, with questions for those who know their AUDHD

I’m going to leap in the deep end because so much of your experience resonates with me, although not necessarily with the same way of expressing them.

You’ll be aware that fairness and justice is an autistic trait, along with difficulty in dealing with people who say one thing and mean another. It seems to me that hypocrisy is both unfair and dishonest. As to whether condemnation of hypocrisy specifically is tied to specific cultures, I’d say not. I’m fairly sure it will be condemned in other cultures – two that spring to mind are Rome under the emperors and 1st century Judah.

You refer to self delusion, which I view as a different subject, because I doubt it’s responsible for all hypocrisy. For example, I view the major conspiracy theories as self-delusion. I have tried reason before now and found that most self-deluded people have very strong psychological defences and I’m not inclined to bash my head against that sort of brick wall, so I tend to withdraw if I can’t ignore.

Occasionally, if I don’t want to lose a friend, I’ll try to establish boundaries that a particular subject is off limits. I find they can’t maintain that constantly, so it comes down to how much I can tolerate. If it’s too much, or the subject is too important to me, I walk away rather than suffer the stress caused by putting up with it.

I recognise your guilt and found the works of Dorothy Rowe liberating, although it didn’t get rid of 100%. I’d recommend “Beyond Fear” and “Guide to Life”. 

I’m not as conscious of my calculations as you and mine tend to predictions based on a psychological behaviour, as psychology gave me the map I needed to navigate a dangerous world. Words are for me what calculations are for you – I can analyse the hell out of a piece of writing for bias, propaganda and faulty logic.  It sounds to me that you yearn for arguments which only take place on closed academic sites. Social media is better at expressing feelings or seeking information in my experience.

I very much appreciate your considered response

To further clarify perhaps, the ‘deluded’ term deserves some explanation.. you’ve raised a point that it can and should be considered in correlation. 

For myself, the term itself took a while to arrive to. Or it ought better be described as a term its matured into.

Without unloading the sandbox of explanation, it’s all just eventually, for me, distilled down into self delusion at scale.

..its not that it’s a surprise it’s a part of the human psyche, its the scale at which it’s persists and known alternatives are ignored for a chosen perspective. This isn’t a flat earthers vs the world kinda thing or I’m a talisman for the truth. It’s just, on average, most of the time, it’s a lie.

.. whatever it is, whoever it is. Mathematically, interacting with people. We have the chose to ignore it. And we do.

most of the time.

.. that’s my query.. How do really know a true socia value.

For sombody like me, that’s one of around 10 ‘files requireing re-consideration’ that hang around for longer than a year or two.

I’ve battled that exact issue since I can remember, and I’m 41. It’s just easier to articulate now - but still not easy

• Thanks again,

I will look into the book suggestions also. 

Lastly, your last point is perhaps a premonition. I spent sometime after visiting this forum and found the Mensa site. So I’ve enquired and might be pre-elligable but I kinda like the idea of going through all the exams anyway and seeing where I’m at. And then maybe join a few of these ultra specific autistic for days discussion groups, with luck!

I'll be interested to know how you find the Mensa forum. Don't get your hopes up - the self-declared Mensa people I encountered struck me as very narrowly focussed. To be truthful, I found many NT academics much more interesting. 

There used to many good places for sustained multi-disciplinary discussion before social media took over - the old Yahoo groups and later, some web fora. If I wanted good, focussed conversation, I'd look on Substack or in the depths of Reddit.

When you originally mention self-delusion it was in the context of hypocrisy. If you're talking about it in another context, I'm afraid you'd have to be more specific. As for social values - as mentioned before, although I agree they are culture-specific, as I've said, some things pop up in many cultures, but it depends which value.

Books and films? I've read too much over the decades. Reading psychology opened up a map I've used to negotiate the world, but I don't think I can point to one particular psychologist after Rowe and Robin Skynner. As for happy fiction: something violence-free, with a good plot, good characterisation, imagination, humour and a good ending. 

I tend to feel motivated and happy when I write, and especially so when I find connections between things or something that feels like it was made up, such as Eugene Faberge's flight from Bolshevic Russia.

I think I just did answer that

I understand your understanding your showing me at least, is that of a heavily personal and human perspective?

I know you’ll have others and that’s a given,  insider if the subject, but for me, the logic fallacy of the delusion can be found in meaningful and articulable ways across so many forms of industry and society, there’s barely anything that isn’t in some way skewed..

For instance, it would be my assertion that AUDHD, isn’t a thing.. it’s a thing NOW under these circumstances, and given our best understanding of the physiological aspects of it.. it’s ‘emergence’ isn’t also new.. it’s a label. That’s we’ve had to affirm to be able to talk about this stuff. For whatever reasons and rationale you’d like..

For instance.. freedom?

it’s relative.. are we free?

Who do you ask and what is their motivation? and belief suddenly your steps away from lizard people and being a flat earther.. 

There’s a line in society that’s acceptable, there’s a line that’s preferable, and those preferences are wildly skewed in everyone.

What’s acceptable is skewed to a lesser degree.

What I’d like is for people to at least be able to have a conversation about these things.. 

I suppose the answer to the Freedom question is Yes, with caveats.. I just can’t help but think some of these caveats are bigger and more socially problematic than most others do.

.. and that same extrapolation boils down to fast food advertising, public education, role models..

All that being said, you’d think my real life response to this would be entirely dystopian but it’s not. It’s going further and further from that as I’m studying more and more about the Bible, its meaning and how it’s changed, it’s obvious players but it’s obvious unexplainable insight into the Human System.

I appreciate your time, one final question that might weirdly help..

In your life, when it comes to Books and Films ( stories in general ).. the ones you find most inspiring specifically?. As oppose to generally entertaining in a more conventional way..

Does how a story is presented, in fiction vs non fiction make a difference?

Only stories, books, film that you can specifically attribute to making you feel more motivated, happier about life, inspired!.. or is there zero correlation.?

Why people prefer their beliefs to reality is often tied up with where they live and what their families' believe; their social identity in sociological terms. They perceive attempts to change their mind as a personal attack. 

As to why you posted to this forum - only you can answer that.

Framing my canundrum as not understanding “why, on average, do the lightbulbs just never wanna be changed?”

Is about as well as a synopsis works.

Obvously it leads with the assumption that the statement is within itself true.

which it isn’t.. it is for me, and others but it can’t be said to be entirely a universal truth. 

An answer you might prefer is to the question of why did I make this assertion here.. in this way in this forum? And perhaps why now?.

What are my motivations?. 

Truth be told, 

I’m as interested as much as how people interact with me, as much as what they actually say.. it used to be much more so.. but re-discovering the power of words in my late 20’s, that opened up a re-discovery of language that I’m still in awe with today.

While I’m at it, I can categorically state that I’m not a pessimist. I’m aware it can come across that way. I find stunning beauty in so many things.. and I’ve barely scratched the surface of what life is about..

- at least that’s how it feels. 

Ive found a grounding with my cognition and I’m able to be comfortable in my own skin. I use it for good as and when I can.. but as previously mentioned, a pursuit into difficult problems is seemingly a dietary requirement, for me. 

It sounds to me (sorry if I'm wrong) that you're more interested in the problem of dealing with the effects of self-delusion in day-to-day life, rather than psychological theories about it. (I'm afraid I can't help with dating issues).

 My closest friend had almost exactly the same problem with her father than you had with yours. It drove her to distraction because he ignored his very real illness and all medical advice, and died within a few years of diagnosis (not diabetes). A formally close friend of my descended into conspiract theiories after retirment gave her the time to spend online. This problem has been knocking around for decades in the NT world, mainly (in the past) considering the question of reversing brain washing, especially for people trapped in cults. The prevalence of conspiracy theories has expanded that in all directions, and you might want to look at reliable articles on cults, brain washing and rescuing people in cults.

The short answer lies in an old psychology joke: "how many psychologists does it take to change a lightbulb?"  Answer: only one, but the lightbulb has to want to change. Confirmation bias is emotional rather than rational, and you may be aware of research that has shown that people invest in beliefs that appeal to them emotionally and that reason does not touch that motivation. (It's probably not just NTs, but I'm not aware of research based on ND). Once you realise that reason will not alter self-delusion, it enables you to stop banging your head against a brick wall. Most people will only change slowly and the first few steps are often because someone they trust/love/are invested in says something that makes them doubt. However, in the early steps of doubt, they become more extreme about ignoring/believing because they are frightened to step into a different world.

It sounds to me (sorry if I'm wrong) that you're more interested in the problem of dealing with the effects of self-delusion in day-to-day life, rather than psychological theories about it. (I'm afraid I can't help with dating issues).

 My closest friend had almost exactly the same problem with her father than you had with yours. It drove her to distraction because he ignored his very real illness and all medical advice, and died within a few years of diagnosis (not diabetes). A formally close friend of my descended into conspiract theiories after retirment gave her the time to spend online. This problem has been knocking around for decades in the NT world, mainly (in the past) considering the question of reversing brain washing, especially for people trapped in cults. The prevalence of conspiracy theories has expanded that in all directions, and you might want to look at reliable articles on cults, brain washing and rescuing people in cults.

The short answer lies in an old psychology joke: "how many psychologists does it take to change a lightbulb?"  Answer: only one, but the lightbulb has to want to change. Confirmation bias is emotional rather than rational, and you may be aware of research that has shown that people invest in beliefs that appeal to them emotionally and that reason does not touch that motivation. (It's probably not just NTs, but I'm not aware of research based on ND). Once you realise that reason will not alter self-delusion, it enables you to stop banging your head against a brick wall. Most people will only change slowly and the first few steps are often because someone they trust/love/are invested in says something that makes them doubt. However, in the early steps of doubt, they become more extreme about ignoring/believing because they are frightened to step into a different world.

Books and films? I've read too much over the decades. Reading psychology opened up a map I've used to negotiate the world, but I don't think I can point to one particular psychologist after Rowe and Robin Skynner. As for happy fiction: something violence-free, with a good plot, good characterisation, imagination, humour and a good ending. 

I tend to feel motivated and happy when I write, and especially so when I find connections between things or something that feels like it was made up, such as Eugene Faberge's flight from Bolshevic Russia.

I think I just did answer that

I understand your understanding your showing me at least, is that of a heavily personal and human perspective?

I know you’ll have others and that’s a given,  insider if the subject, but for me, the logic fallacy of the delusion can be found in meaningful and articulable ways across so many forms of industry and society, there’s barely anything that isn’t in some way skewed..

For instance, it would be my assertion that AUDHD, isn’t a thing.. it’s a thing NOW under these circumstances, and given our best understanding of the physiological aspects of it.. it’s ‘emergence’ isn’t also new.. it’s a label. That’s we’ve had to affirm to be able to talk about this stuff. For whatever reasons and rationale you’d like..

For instance.. freedom?

it’s relative.. are we free?

Who do you ask and what is their motivation? and belief suddenly your steps away from lizard people and being a flat earther.. 

There’s a line in society that’s acceptable, there’s a line that’s preferable, and those preferences are wildly skewed in everyone.

What’s acceptable is skewed to a lesser degree.

What I’d like is for people to at least be able to have a conversation about these things.. 

I suppose the answer to the Freedom question is Yes, with caveats.. I just can’t help but think some of these caveats are bigger and more socially problematic than most others do.

.. and that same extrapolation boils down to fast food advertising, public education, role models..

All that being said, you’d think my real life response to this would be entirely dystopian but it’s not. It’s going further and further from that as I’m studying more and more about the Bible, its meaning and how it’s changed, it’s obvious players but it’s obvious unexplainable insight into the Human System.

I appreciate your time, one final question that might weirdly help..

In your life, when it comes to Books and Films ( stories in general ).. the ones you find most inspiring specifically?. As oppose to generally entertaining in a more conventional way..

Does how a story is presented, in fiction vs non fiction make a difference?

Only stories, books, film that you can specifically attribute to making you feel more motivated, happier about life, inspired!.. or is there zero correlation.?

Why people prefer their beliefs to reality is often tied up with where they live and what their families' believe; their social identity in sociological terms. They perceive attempts to change their mind as a personal attack. 

As to why you posted to this forum - only you can answer that.

Framing my canundrum as not understanding “why, on average, do the lightbulbs just never wanna be changed?”

Is about as well as a synopsis works.

Obvously it leads with the assumption that the statement is within itself true.

which it isn’t.. it is for me, and others but it can’t be said to be entirely a universal truth. 

An answer you might prefer is to the question of why did I make this assertion here.. in this way in this forum? And perhaps why now?.

What are my motivations?. 

Truth be told, 

I’m as interested as much as how people interact with me, as much as what they actually say.. it used to be much more so.. but re-discovering the power of words in my late 20’s, that opened up a re-discovery of language that I’m still in awe with today.

While I’m at it, I can categorically state that I’m not a pessimist. I’m aware it can come across that way. I find stunning beauty in so many things.. and I’ve barely scratched the surface of what life is about..

- at least that’s how it feels. 

Ive found a grounding with my cognition and I’m able to be comfortable in my own skin. I use it for good as and when I can.. but as previously mentioned, a pursuit into difficult problems is seemingly a dietary requirement, for me.