Bad anxiety today

Hi Marjorie,

i think you are describing a CBT approach for dealing with depression? It seems to me that Liv's problems may include an element that is susceptible to that approach but that there is something else going on that has caused the severe pain as a child and that may still be causing issues now.

my experience, pre diagnosis, was that I simply had no idea that i had an asperger tendency that i could deal with rationally so no amount of thought would get to the bottom of what was causing me problems.

Thanks for pointing me at the Alexithymia thing. I hadn't come across this term before but a search of the community reveals that it has been discussed before

community.autism.org.uk/.../alexithymia

I have had bouts of depression all my life and am beginning to realise that they result from not facing up to things. I avoid things that I think I can't deal with. Now, when I get depressed, I ask myself "what is getting to me"?

It may take a while, but if I find the issue and understand, I cope better.

I recently discovered the condition Alexythymia, emotional blindness, and many of my problems stem from this. It can take me ages to realise that I am having an emotional reaction to something, what it is and only then start to work through it. Then I can tell others around me what is bothering me and begin to cope again.

LivAgain said:

I suffered from childhood depression. Like, when I was eighteen months old. I would have excruciating headaches and my entire body would hurt according to my parents; I'd fold into myself, would cry and not even want to see my grandparents.

I would never have thought that a child so young could have depression but the headaches would have a massive impact which would result in severely bad mood. :-(

Did you ever look at dietary interventions? I'm intrigued by things like the Feingold diet and their claims for major changes in behaviour. I'm also aware of the well documented connections between chocolate and migraines. It doesn't seem too far fetched that our super-sensitivities could extend to being sensitive to the constituents of foods. What do you think of these diets?

the mental place can just be closing your eyes and creating a picture of a calm or beautiful place. Or it could be counting or imagining some kind of sequence or pattern that makes you feel safe .

sorry for being useless!

won't let me finish.

some techniques which are a bit more practical and less intense so might work for someone on spectrum:

distraction - puzzles, special interest, crosswords, pets, a person you know and trust, reading, drawing, colouring in, surfing the internet or playing computer games, knitting etc

a mantra: "I can do this. I have felt this way before and have survived.'

"I am ok. There are people who love me. I am ok. Things are ok. Other people are ok."

a happy place(literal and in your head). The literal can just be your bedroom with the lights off, lying on the floor with a blanket and pillow, alone. Or whatever works for you.

sorry you are feeling like this. Anxiety is horrible. I think it can be v hard to calm down, and lots of the methods for nt people don't always work with aspies. Really, I think trying to go easy on yourself and also finding a happy place or mantra??? Sorry if that doesn't make sense, I am tired! Basically, it can be a bit pointless to try and 'out logic' your anxiety

NAS18906 said:

You clearly have Depression, the illness rather than the short term emotion. A lot of other autistic people have this too. I think that my depression was also the real thing. It didn't disappear when I met with friends, it didn't disappear with chocolate, gin or anything else. It built up over weeks and I resembled eeyore - I slowed down and was just plain miserable for long stretches. I however am comfortable that it was exogenous and due to the chain of events that I described before.

My father was depressed and treated with drugs which never actually addressed the underlying issue that I now believe to be Aspergers. He, his siblings, his father and grandfather all appear to have been eccentric, difficult, awkward people. These traits I now take as Aspergers and I expect that they all had miserable, conflictful lives because they didn't work out how to deal with the world. We have the benefit of being able to understand our condition. We can work out strategies for having less conflict and less stress and, I believe, less depression.

So true that drugs "skirt the issue" - honestly, they help you deal with your symptoms better but of course there are no magic pills that tidily deal with the problems. Asperger's is an unbelievably depressing and often degrading thing to live with - but I find it even more degrading that people think it's OK that people on the spectrum don't get help because they should be miserable. That, to me, is the height of degrading. My communication skills are apparently not too badly affected, and actually, recently, I have found ways to accept that I do have friends; my relationships are just less conventional because I get too tired/too overwhelmed/too emotional/too moody/too obsessive/too many racing thoughts to maintain an NT-style friendship. I have people who like and accept me and have never seen it as an excuse for being anything less than a lovely person. I don't mean to boast but people often tell me what a lovely person I am. I'm hyper sensitive to other people's feelings because I can be empathetic by nature and I have also learnt over the years what it is like to suffer at the hands of insensitive people. Therefore, you're right that we can manage this. It's also good in lots of ways to have a diagnosis. That aside, when I was little, before I knew that anything was wrong, I suffered from childhood depression. Like, when I was eighteen months old. I would have excruciating headaches and my entire body would hurt according to my parents; I'd fold into myself, would cry and not even want to see my grandparents. My mum took me to the doctors' because, naturally, I was her first and she was concerned, and the doctor said that it could be because I was suffering from low mood. This was before bullying, before understanding that I was different, before any sort of knowledge based on experience. This seemed to be intrinsic. So...I don't know. I hope your father found a way to manage his depression in the end. 

BTW - I love Eeyore! 

You clearly have Depression, the illness rather than the short term emotion. A lot of other autistic people have this too. I think that my depression was also the real thing. It didn't disappear when I met with friends, it didn't disappear with chocolate, gin or anything else. It built up over weeks and I resembled eeyore - I slowed down and was just plain miserable for long stretches. I however am comfortable that it was exogenous and due to the chain of events that I described before.

My father was depressed and treated with drugs which never actually addressed the underlying issue that I now believe to be Aspergers. He, his siblings, his father and grandfather all appear to have been eccentric, difficult, awkward people. These traits I now take as Aspergers and I expect that they all had miserable, conflictful lives because they didn't work out how to deal with the world. We have the benefit of being able to understand our condition. We can work out strategies for having less conflict and less stress and, I believe, less depression.

NAS18906 said:

I've had depression too but have held back from going to doctors about it. My understanding is that ASD people often suffer from exogenous depression brought on by the conflict in our lives that results from our poor communication ability. In my mind this is different, and requires different treatment to endogenous or organic depression. See 

psychcentral.com/.../00019

for the distinction. Has anyone discussed that difference with you and do you think I am on the right track with labelling your or my depression with the exogenous term?

I appreciate what you're saying and I'm sure that my difficulties caused by my autism contribute to my unhappiness however I believe that a large percentage of my depression is organic. It took a while for people to understand that my depression had little to do with how loved, popular, thin or understood I was. I can be depressed on Christmas Day when I'm surrounded by people who love me whilst being spoilt rotten. I can lie in bed staring at the ceiling wishing I'd never been born. Yes my ASC is a great source of pain and often a source of shame, but I have depression the illness, not depression the emotion. It hurts me a lot when people tell me that I hurt because I'm sad about my sad life. I have fatigue and physical symptoms. I have been known to suffer from some quite delusional thinking associated with my moods. My ASC has stopped me getting help in the past, and I resent being constantly shut in this beastly, "Oh, this is because you're on the spectrum" box. People are too complex for one label. I certainly am. The only thing that has ever brought me any relief from my low, suicidal moods are antidepressants. There's a history of organic depression and anxiety in my family. So I'm not sure what other evidence I need. I do totally take your point though, and I'm sorry if this reply sounds ranty. I'm just going through a really horrible time with mental health in general at the moment, not Asperger's related issues. I often find myself hating my diagnosis and blaming it for far too many things. I know that people on the spectrum and those who specialise in them will always find ways of justifying my feelings to me, but the fact is, nobody has to suffer. Why should I have to suffer from intense low mood because I'm autistic, yet somebody who is neurotypical gets medication and treatment? It doesn't seem fair. Please don't fall into the "I'm autistic, therefore I must be depressed" trap. If you are suffering from symptoms of depression, whatever you think the cause to be, then it's good to see a doctor.

I've had depression too but have held back from going to doctors about it. My understanding is that ASD people often suffer from exogenous depression brought on by the conflict in our lives that results from our poor communication ability. In my mind this is different, and requires different treatment to endogenous or organic depression. See 

psychcentral.com/.../00019

for the distinction. Has anyone discussed that difference with you and do you think I am on the right track with labelling your or my depression with the exogenous term?

Thank you, recombinantsocks. Yes, I've heard this before - that's why I don't think I am.  I definitely think I suffer from depression though.

There is an interesting article at http://www.autismspeaks.org/blog/2014/05/22/mental-health-awareness-mont...

It suggests that "However, we believe that bipolar disorder is mistakenly over-diagnosed in those with autism. In part this is because some of their symptoms can overlap"

crystal12 said:

Maybe your anxiety medication needs changing or adjusting?  Have you read the "contraindications" in the leaflet that comes with it?

Hi crystal12 - to be honest, I was warned that because of what we believe to be my bipolarity (I'm reluctant to believe I have bipolar, but my psychiatrist thinks so) that it might have adverse effects. I'm just trying to ride it out, really!

NAS18906 said:

liv,

your post set me thinking this morning. I didn't want to go to work either. I was dreading having to prepare for my appraisal and the inevitable confrontation with my boss that it always means. I've ended up with having a cool and calm and very deliberately rational examination of the email that he sent me in preparation. I've decided, against my instincts and first impressions that the things that he wrote were at least well intentioned. 

It seems to me that forcing myself to be more rational about things is useful and that i am better off with taking more time to look harder for peoples genuine intentions. 

I think this is basically a CBT approach. Have you ever tried or been offered CBT for your anxiety? Personally i avoid meds if possible and think that CBT is better for anxiety and such.

Hi - I'm really glad you're able to practise good techniques.  have tried CBT before and am going to be trying it again soon, so that's all really positive. It isn't just my anxiety; it's my other issues as well which cause me problems. I know it's better to avoid meds if possible, but I avoided them all my life and now, though they're not perfect, I can't imagine life without them.

liv,

your post set me thinking this morning. I didn't want to go to work either. I was dreading having to prepare for my appraisal and the inevitable confrontation with my boss that it always means. I've ended up with having a cool and calm and very deliberately rational examination of the email that he sent me in preparation. I've decided, against my instincts and first impressions that the things that he wrote were at least well intentioned. 

It seems to me that forcing myself to be more rational about things is useful and that i am better off with taking more time to look harder for peoples genuine intentions. 

I think this is basically a CBT approach. Have you ever tried or been offered CBT for your anxiety? Personally i avoid meds if possible and think that CBT is better for anxiety and such.

Maybe your anxiety medication needs changing or adjusting?  Have you read the "contraindications" in the leaflet that comes with it?

Good Morning!

can you start to think of getting hold of your ASD and putting it in its place? Did you see the idea of treating your ASD like an unruly dog? It's a few posts down this thread...

community.autism.org.uk/.../does-anyone-want-chat