• Replies 60 replies
  • Subscribers 88 subscribers
  • Views 1331 views
  • Users 0 members are here
Options
Related
Hints and tips
  • To quote someone's message, first select/highlight the relevant text, and then use the Quote button that appears
  • To "mention" someone, type @ followed by the start of the forum name, and choose from the list; that person will get a notification of being mentioned

The Naming Ceremony: Is Diagnosis a Modern Shamanic Ritual?

Phased
While the clinical world is often obsessed with "disorders," most of us know that’s a fundamentally broken way to describe our experience. Lately, I’ve been thinking that for many in the neurodivergent community, getting that formal recognition—or finding your own path to self-understanding—feels less like a medical report and more like a naming ceremony.
I have to give a huge nod to TheCatWoman for this spark. In a recent chat, she used the brilliant analogy: trying to run a neurodivergent brain on neurotypical psychology is like trying to run Windows on an Apple. It got me thinking—if the "operating systems" are that different, then the people who originally built these theories weren't really scientists in the modern sense. They were more like 20th-century shamans trying to map a spirit world they didn't fully understand.
In ancient cultures, a naming ritual was a way to reintegrate someone whose "spirit" seemed at odds with the world. Once named, the "problem" became a "trait," and the person could finally take their rightful place in the tribe. Whether that name comes from a formal assessment or through the "vision quest" of self-diagnosis, it’s a powerful moment of literal recognition. It's like finally identifying with your own spirit animal—finding the creature that actually matches your tracks, rather than trying to pretend you’re a wolf when you’re actually a horse.
I also noticed NAS recently asking the community to share their own tips for securing reasonable adjustments. I suspect they may have been pivoting from my earlier post about being fed up with the lack of them! In this shamanic framework, when a group asks the tribe for their "how-to" guides, they are gathering the communal wisdom needed to help us become the Architects of our own Sacred Space.
These adjustments—whether it's noise-cancelling, flexible hours, or literal task lists—are the protective boundaries that stop our "Apple" OS from overheating in a "Windows" world and the horses getting predated by the wolves.
For those of you who have found your "Name"—whether through a clinician or your own research—did it feel like a clinical label, or did it feel like a ceremony that finally brought your soul home?
  • in reply to TheCatWoman
    TheCatWoman said:
    I'm finding more and more people just pee me off and make me wonder what the point of even trying is?

    I am feeling too fragile to attempt a response to that.

    To elaborate on us being social animals, it would seem that we are because we rely on others. That doesn’t mean we like everyone or that others are necessarily friends, although research shows that most autistic people have or would like friends but the energy needed for such friendly activities can be too heavy to manage without careful self-care management. Most people need doctors, lawyers, shop or online employees and others to provide services. 

    It is impossible for most people to live on their own without any contact with the outside world, although some people have managed it for months or a year or so. 

  • in reply to ArchaeC

    Are we '..social people..', all of us? We're all told we are, but the older I get the less I beleive it, maybe it's just today, but I'm finding more and more people just pee me off and make me wonder what the point of even trying is?

  • in reply to Phased

    Being able to close that chapter of abuse and to stand your ground is a massive win. Well done you! Clap

    I know many of us enjoy being on our own, but I believe the research on this shows that most autistic people need and rely on others because we are a social people.  We might need more time on our own but it doesn’t mean we don’t need others as your wife and the herd can affirm.

    I like looking at figurines and paintings with abstract faces because they appear to have changing emotions depending on how you study them. This is just as well because my lump of clay might not develop beyond a blob with slits for the eyes, nose and mouth.

  • in reply to TheCatWoman

    man mageTrolleybusFlag krGrinning  It helps me stay on my horse  well, maybe...

  • in reply to Phased

    WHAT! You mean you're connected to the wyrd like a trolley bus????

  • in reply to ArchaeC
    I’m so glad you felt safe enough to mention that hidden part of the clay  . It isn't being negative — it’s the raw truth of how exhausting this audit is. As someone someone who comes to autism realisation late on in life, I really feel the weight of what you’re describing.
    It sounds like the exquisite release of dropping the shame has left a space where the unbidden anger and the damage from others can finally be felt. I’ve been learning through this thread—thanks to the insights you and the others have brought to the paddock—that this anger isn't a state to be fixed. It’s more like our hardware finally reacting to decades of being forced to run the wrong operating system.
    I've had my own experience with those metaphorical wolves this week. Using the collective wisdom we’ve shared here, I was able to close a chapter of personal abuse and stand my ground against a discriminatory organisation. I felt that same visceral threat in my belly you described. It wasn't my win alone; it was the result of leaning on the herd and a simple motto from a loved one: don't give up.
    I know your Neolithic figurine might still feel like a cold, jagged lump. There is absolutely no rush. I’ve been thinking lately about how life is like a river. A wise teacher once suggested that we don't need to push the river to make it flow; we just need to let go of the bank. If you can act on a problem now, do so. If not, tell yourself you will when the time is right, and let the rest of the water carry you for a bit.
    I've also found that opening up to the sadness of unmasking has surprisingly allowed me to open up to happiness, too. I've been learning to reset the physical by just watching a birch tree wave in the wind. The tree doesn't fight the wind; it bends and finds its own rhythm again.
    Because I’m still trying to figure this out, a few of us are gathering over at another thread: "Alexithymia and the Audit: From the bricks of clinical labour to the wind of the birch trees." It’s more of a quiet spot for when the words aren't really there yet.  I’m hoping it helps us eventually get a better sense of those internal signals, but for now, we're just sitting with the silence of it.
    If you ever feel the pull of the birch trees, the fire is going over there too. No pressure, no expectations—just more oil for the gearboxes.
    Best Wishes Slight smile
  • in reply to Phased

    Thanks for the summary  

    It was interesting learning of people’s experiences and of your own. As for my own it mostly reflected the moment I discarded the shame label, yet there is more than that and for now it is hidden in the clay of the figurine that is in my mind. 

    How to come to terms with the damage inflicted by others is not so easy to rid. Perhaps I would have been like this anyway if say I had been adopted at birth. I try not to think of it but it comes to me unbidden. I can achieve something if I’m determined but the negative mental state isn’t for shifting, at times I feel angry and it’s depleting my energy. I have an idea of some things that might help me but alas, it’s only the few who have access to these things.

    I’m not being negative about your post. I think reflecting on the lump of clay has brought out feelings that were suppressed. Better out than in! Slight smile

  • in reply to TheCatWoman

    No worries, Its from earlier in this thread  I found a reply to me in this group that I'd missed for 4 days yesterday (suspect volume of traffic had something to do with it). 

    Anyway in response to your "as long as a piece of string comment" i posted:

    "hehe - as regards the string theory - to share a personal fact with you, I have a very long thin fine hair that grows from the side of my body - I've had it all my life as far as I'm aware, well I certainly noticed it in  my childhood.  I am reminded of it - my wife gently pulled on it from her seated position as I stood sidewise on to her as I brushed my teeth a couple of days ago.  It's my theory that this is a bit of an antennae that connnects me to the universe :-) The threads that connect as friendship may appear as fragile and rare as this too.  Hhowever it does not meant they aren't enduring.  I am to am glad that our wyrd ways are compatible and linked by threads.  Best Wishes  Wizzard Pahsed"   

    There' another one from me that riffs about Bowie and his etherial connections :-)

    To quote Frankie Goes to Hollywood: "when 2 tribes go to war..." - i get your meaning.

    Hehe only extraordinary people value the ordinary and ordinary people maybe devalue the extraordinary ones and cry "off with their heads" whenever they encounter them.

    Marvel Hero's and Columbo vs  Dangermouse and Sherlock Holmes maybe?

  • in reply to Phased

    I didn't see your antenna hair post, where is it?

    I never thought you were trying to shrink wrap us/me, Tribes can be a really good way of looking at things, but it can also get a bit "us and them" and adversarial, I prefer different therefore equal.

    It's easy to be anything if you have the money, resourses and a supportive environment, but when you have the opposites which I think many of us do, it's all a bit different. I've noticed Americans like to talk things up and sugar coat them, they seem to have an aversion to being ordinary, whereas one of the things I notice here, both on this site and the UK in general is that we want to be ordinary, we value it in a way others don't.

    I don't know if it could be said that Britain has national Tall Poppy Syndrome, but we certainly do like to build people up only to tear them down and wave the bloodied rags of them around. I guess the biggest difference between us the Americans can be seen in our cartoons, they have all the Marvel hero's and we have Dangermouse, says it all really?

  • in reply to TheCatWoman
    He’s the patron saint of the 'wyrd,' as far as I'm concerned! Whether it’s Wiccan wonder or my own Taoist flow, Bowie always seemed to have a foot in both worlds. I’m glad you caught the reference—it’s those little 'lightning bolt' moments that keep our connection strong.
    Of course, like any of us, he had his shadows—I’m well aware of his dodgier political dalliances back in the day. But as a Taoist, I’ve learned the value of forgiveness; the man was a flawed vessel for a very pure, cosmic frequency. He was a super cool antenna for the universe, even when he was off-signal.
    Grounded in the Tao, but always looking to the stars.
    Best Wishes
  • in reply to TheCatWoman
    Fair play to you, CatWoman—you’ve given me a proper reality check there.
    I’ll admit I’ve been running with that 'Tribal' idea like a dog with a bone, treating it as a sort of 'shamanic' naming ritual. I suppose I was trying to find a bit of 'wheat among the chaff'—looking for the essential value even in those glossy American exports, like a useful tool found in a cluttered shed.
    But you’ve hit the nail on the head. It’s one thing to read about tech geniuses in California, and quite another to live the grit and the grind of it, especially when you’ve been weather-beaten by it for as many years as we have. I certainly didn't mean to 'smooth over' the reality with a plastic wrapper.
    I’m not sure if you caught my other note about the 'antenna' hair and our shared 'wyrd' threads—I tend to get a bit carried away with the 'string theory' of things! But regardless, I’m glad our ways are compatible and linked by those fine, enduring connections.
    Thank you for keeping me honest. It’s good to have an equal who can see through the packaging to the actual contents.
    Best Wishes,
    "Wizzard Pahsed"
  • in reply to Phased

    I couldn't get on with Neurotribes, I was disapponinted after reading it and felt that I was somehow a plastic and fake autist, but then it was very US orrientated and not aimed at older people.

  • in reply to TheCatWoman

    hehe - as regards the string theory - to share a personal fact with you, I have a very long thin fine hair that grows from the side of my body - I've had it all my life as far as I'm aware, well I certainly noticed it in  my childhood.  I am reminded of it - my wife gently pulled on it from her seated position as I stood sidewise on to her as I brushed my teeth a couple of days ago.  It's my theory that this is a bit of an antennae that connnects me to the universe :-) The threads that connect as friendship may appear as fragile and rare as this too.  Hhowever it does not meant they aren't enduring.  I am to am glad that our wyrd ways are compatible and linked by threads.  Best Wishes  Wizzard Pahsed

  • in reply to Phased

    just re-read the above and so another quick ps (without my usual "polish it up before posting effort") - I realised they put on a brave cheerful mask for me too - the biggest bit that made me sad was they and I know and love one another enough to when we said goodbye we privately dropped the mask and we both shared honest expression of pain and sadness... Good job there's birch trees in the wind.

  • Ending the Tribal Fire: Closing the Circle for the Week
    In shamanic traditions, there is a time to journey and a time to bring those visions back into ordinary reality. I’ve been sitting back for a bit, watching the wyrd threads of this conversation weave together, and I’m just floored by the map we’ve built. It’s hard to believe this only started two days ago. For me, it has shown just how much real ground a group working together like this can cover—it is exactly the kind of thing I joined this forum for.
    Since my weekend is up and it’s time for the return to the Windows world of work tomorrow, I won't be quite as active here. My replies might take a bit longer as I navigate the weekday gears, but I wanted to take a moment to name-check the herd and the expertise you’ve all brought to the paddock: 
    •  , I want to offer a sincere apology for any over steer on my part. I realise my metaphor-rich way of thinking is quite heavy and isn't the easiest fit for everyone’s neurodivergent spectrum. While I am personally drawn to that magical way of seeing things, I truly value the grounded, critical anchor you and   brought to the thread. It kept us honest about the systems we have to navigate.
    •   , thank you for being the original teacher. Your independent cat energy and the enemy as teacher logic really helped us shift from fixing a disorder to working with our nature.
    •  , your Traffic Jam and Hourglass gave us the biological why behind the struggle and proved that building a bridge at work is a massive win.
    •  , your exquisite release and that Neolithic figurine... that’s the soul of the ceremony right there. Sixty years of wolf expectations falling away—it’s a powerful thing to witness.
    •    , my sincere thanks for the Adaptable Linux upgrade. It is a brilliant way to view our architecture—open-source, secure, and customisable. I’m keeping that in my toolkit.
    •   , the Royal Oak and the double-think—thank you for the historical anchor and the reminder that the seal of approval is just the start of the audit.
    •   Cinnabar_wing, that lightning bolt in the stream and the Tribal Tattoo analogy turned a clinical assessment into a rite of passage. A big tribal whoop to you.
    Where we’re at:
    We started out wondering if a diagnosis is just a modern shamanic ritual. Whether we use that framework or Steve Silberman’s NeuroTribes logic, we’ve found that we aren't a modern error, but a long-standing tribal lineage of system-builders.
    In that shamanic framework, the diagnosis isn't a cure; it's the ceremony that integrates us back into the tribe where we belong. We’ve been writing our own chapter of that history right here.
    I’m going to close the circle for now while I head back to the grind, but I’m keeping the doors wide open. This thread was inspired by another, and if the spark hits me again, I would love to work with you good people in a similar way. I’ve personally learned so much about myself through the privilege of learning with and from all of you.
    I am 61 now, and having been diagnosed at 59, I’ve realized that this audit of the last six decades isn't about looking back with regret. It’s a process of clearing out the old, ill-fitting code so I can finally start living authentically in the moment. It’s a slow transition, and the gears always need a bit of grease, but I’m feeling a lot more Sacred Space in my own paddock tonight.
    Keep oiling those gearboxes, guarding your boundaries, and above all, trusting your own tracks.
    All the best to the herd.
  • in reply to Alien0n3arth
    I wanted to share a little follow-up on that idea of "Maintenance in Progress." While I mentioned it can feel like a "day" of being stuck, I’m finding that as the practice develops, the timeframe starts to match the weight of what we’re carrying.
    In the past, a big "system jam" might have lasted me weeks. But I’m learning that even a few minutes of conscious pausing can work wonders. I had a stressful visit earlier today for Mother’s Day with someone very dear to me who has dementia. I found myself putting on that "brave, cheerful mask" for them, but as soon as I left, I knew my system was at capacity.
    I told my wife I needed to pause before driving away. I just sat for a few minutes and watched the thin branches of a birch tree flowing in the wind. I mentioned to her how much they reminded me of a Monet painting. Just those few minutes of meditating on that bit of beauty allowed my "gears" to reset. I was able to drive away feeling like myself again.
    I think for the big life-shifts, the architecture still needs a longer "rest" to settle. But for the daily stresses, those few seconds or minutes of claiming our Sacred Space can be enough to clear the queue. It’s like we’re training ourselves to have both ways of thinking available at once—acknowledging the "jam" while simultaneously looking for the "reset." It takes practice, but the timeframe really does start to shift as we get better at reading our own signals.
  • in reply to Alien0n3arth
    I’ve been reflecting on your last post—that description of the traffic jam when someone asks about your mum is so vivid. It sounds incredibly draining when the background noise starts to drown out the conversation and your gears have to work at full speed just to catch up.
    When you say you’re feeling stuck or slow right now, I wonder if we can use our Naming Ceremony lens to re-name that feeling together?
    In my own thinking, I’ve found it helpful to remember that an Apple OS runs differently than Windows. It’s not that the Apple is slower—I see it as a high-performance system—but it can overheat when it’s forced to translate Windows code all day. I suspect many of us have spent a long time trying to think in that Windows code rather than acknowledging our own Apple.
    As I mentioned to ArchaeC, I like to think of us as the Architects of our own Sacred Space. You’ve already done brilliant work defining that space at work—but for those of us in the Lost Generation, I know it can be a big shift to start claiming that same peace in our personal lives, too.
    You mentioned that fast mode has led to the hospital in the past. To me, that speaks to just how tough things have been, and why protecting your energy now feels so vital. From where I’m standing, the jam you're describing looks like your brain pulling the emergency brake because the translation is getting too heavy. I see it as a win to stop before the system overheats.
    Instead of "I am stuck," I’ve started using a different name for those days: Sacred Space Maintenance in Progress.
    I don't think you're doing anything wrong by being slow or needing to repeat questions. To me, you're just letting the queue clear at the only pace that’s sustainable for a Horse. I really saw the depth and beauty in how you visualised your Traffic Jam—I don't think most people see their own inner workings with that level of clarity.
    I truly believe that once the Architect finishes these structural repairs and you start running your own native code, this same brain is capable of processing depth and beauty that others simply miss. I don't see it as fixing a slow system, but as stabilising a high-performance engine.
    If today’s speed is zero, I see that as you being a good Architect and guarding your boundaries. Excellent work on listening to those gears—I'm learning myself that the bridge only holds if we build it at our own pace.
  • in reply to Phased

    For me it's not exactly like this- it's about information processing. I can process only o e thing at a time. When I'm stressed, it gets slower. Additionally the background noise i terferes with the conversation,  so I can't hear properly what they are talking about or only catching some pieces of sentences because there is some machine working in the background. 

    When I'm tired, better don't talk to me at all. Simple question "how is your mom?" Makes a jam in my head, first the other person has to repeat the question,  so I register that they are talking to me, then I have to catch up with what they are asking and then it's echolalia- I repeat the question. And then my visualised gears work on a full speed to recall, when I talked to my mom, what we talked about and how is she generally. People say it's funny how slow I am and how I repeat the question. I don't find it funny but hmm what i can say. It used to frustrate me a lot, but now I kinda made peace with myself and stopped being so harsh on myself for this slower processing. I just can't faster. Or if I'm forced to do faster for extended period, I may end up in a pscyh hospital,  as it already happened in the past.

  • in reply to Phased

    hehe David had to phone someone - there's a starman!