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Identity cards

TheCatWoman

The new Home secretary is talking about introducing identity cards and maybe making it compulsory to carry them, outside of war, the IK has never had identity cards, we've never had to prove who we are to access services, or to provide proof of who we are when asked to by police. 

I remember when Tony Blair's government wanted to bring them in back in the 1999's-early 2000's, I opposed them then and I oppose them now, especially if they're compulsory. Part of the thinking is that we all carry different sorts of digital ID anyway so one more won't make any difference. Not all of us carry digital ID, I don't, my Mum dosen't, nor do some of my friends. We don't have smart phones, don't know how to use them, can't afford them, don't want them, so will we be made to have them, or will alternatives be provided?

Another issue with ID cards, is what will be on them and who will have access to that information? It would be great if you had an accident and were rushed to A&E unconcious and they could access your phone and get your medical records, but what if you were arrested or wrongly detained, or stopped and searched, or were the victim of a crime, would the police be able to access you rmedical records and decide, say that because you have a medical condition that your case warrents no further investigation?

One of the arguments is that only people here legally will be able to access services, like hosptials and education, that it will help to stop illegal migration. How long will be before criminals start making ID cards, just lke they do NI, driving licenses and passports? WIll we end up with a situation where an ID card is just another hoop to jump through when wanting to go about ones normal and legitimate business, will we end up needing 3 forms of photo ID? 

The civil liberties aspects of ID cards really worries me, what happens if our ID card get stolen or hacked, how will we prove who we are? What safeguards could there be? I know there will be many who will come out with the old chestnut that if you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear, yeah right, so miscarriages of justice never happen? Or that they manage in other countries, I don't care, this is our country, a free country, thats fast becoming a tin pot dictatorship and will only get worse if this infringement goes ahead. 

  • in reply to SunshineDrive

    I don't have a smartphone and rarely take the dumb phone I have out with me, I often forget it or choose not to be contactable.

  • This evening it looks like it will still be required for working. I think it was only from 2029 by which time I should be retired and we will probably have a different government.

  • I'm very glad to hear its been dropped.

  • in reply to Iain

    That would have been a better option vs a real card - I don’t carry a purse or a bag 

  • in reply to Iain

    It seems the status quo will be maintained, but I think you'll be able to decide to get one if you want. It was being discussed on Newsnight last night and the general opinion was that it's a good thing to drop it and to look to other countries where theres a more carrot and less stick approach to it. Even whilst at war Ukraine has managed to roll out an app where you can access everything to do with the government with a digital ID, I think this is a much better way of going about it than forcing people into it and having to make accomodations for those like me who don't have smart phones and don't know how to use tech very well.

  • It looks like the Digital ID cards may not go ahead now:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3385zrrx73o

    The government has dropped plans requiring workers to sign up to its digital ID scheme in order to prove their right to work in the UK

  • Apparently it's on the agenda for discussion at the Labour Party Conference, I hope the member put a stop to it.

  • in reply to 190E(Taylor’s version)

    I don't want to have to carry biometric data around with with, nor do I want to be tracked everywhere I go. OK, so I'm not doing anything illegal, but it's getting to the point where poeple think if you use cash you're doing something illegal or don't have a smart phone. I dont' want an ID card either physical or digital.

  • in reply to TheCatWoman

    Im in my 30s and have this issue it’s hard to get my adhd Brian ti be paitnet enough to film the forms out snd aet the money aside if nothing else 

  • in reply to Deleted User

    I mean a digital card wirh our biometric data could work to helping us not need physical Id the problem is making it so it ONLY has our biometrics and not any form of tracking data

  • The UK civil liberties campaign group fighting for a free future, called "Big Brother Watch", has a campaign opposed to ID cards:

    https://bigbrotherwatch.org.uk/campaigns/no2digitalid/

  • in reply to TheCatWoman

    Creepy stuff. I signed up as well.

    I don't want to take IDs everywhere I go.

    Just ask when it is essential.

  • in reply to AutToFindOutMore

    Thanks for that link, I'm all signed up.

  • For those against ID cards, there is a petition on the UK Government's petitions website, titled "Do not introduce Digital ID cards":

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/730194

  • in reply to Martin

    Do you not think that the sorts of people who employ illegals care about documentation?

  • in reply to Iain

    I wouldn't know how to transfer something from device to device, let alone Mum do it, or any of our elderly neighbours.

    Oh what a brilliant idea, lets all be microchipped like dogs! What if you were allergic to the implant? The body would recognise it as a foreign body and make an abcess around it to expell it. I know there are many example of people who have various implants their bodies are quite happy to accept, but some of have bodies that see way to much as foreign bodies.

    I don't see the point in having yet another card or device that criminals are able to copy easily, it will become another hoop to jump through. I often feel like a suspected criminal when I say I don't have things like a passport and loads of other ID, I tell them that if I were a real criminal all my ID would be flawless and exactly what was asked for. I feel like it's getting to the point where there's so many hoops that the only people who can jump through them are criminals!

  • in reply to TheCatWoman

    Hello, sorry I don't have more time to go into detail now - I agree with much of what you say and will try to keep this in mind when replying in future.

    Thanks for being patient as I know I can be thorny at times.

    TheCatWoman said:
    Being a techie sort of peron I'm surprised you didn't engage with the idea of how long it will be before criminals can fake them and will we end up still needing a passport, a full driving licence and a utility bill as well as our ID card?

    Anything that criminals can subvert for gain will be subverted. I used to work as a "white hat" hacker - ie defending against cyber attacks and what I saw then and later when working with the police is quite dispiriting.

    There is a constant arms race we can only ever be on the trailing edge of so there will always be risks of our data being stolen, bank accounts being emptied, devices compromised etc.

    I suppose I have accepted this and stopped worrying about it. Instead I take what sensible precautions I can and have a backup plan in case stuff goes wrong. A bit like your health - do what you can to take care while enjoying life but accept that sometimes stuff goes wrong.

    One advantage of the single card could be that it is no longer for a single purpose (as passports or driving licenses are for) but can be used in a much wider range of situations. It would be an ideal solution for your mum for example as she does not need to drive or travel to qualify for it.

    If they can make it an electronic device then it can be transferred from device to device as you upgrade or even implanted in a chip under your skin in theory. It does make it easier to fake at current technology levels but it is also way too easy to get fake passports, driving licenses etc (don't ask how I know...).

    There are plenty of portable devices that could qualify as suitable for your mum - some are completely passive (ie no input, just a display), are credit card sized and can be left in the drawer for a year or two without needing the battery changed.

    The upsides outweigh the downsides in this case I think, certainly compared to the laternatives (or lack thereof).

  • in reply to DormouseAtRest_25

    I just had a look at that website and it wouldn't help someone like my Mum, I did ask a building society if they'd allow her to open an account given her lack of ID, they said they could do a credit check, but she's fail that as she owes nothing and hasn't for a good 30 years. When my parents tried to get a credit card when I was trying to persuade them to shop online more and a credit card would offer them an extra level of safety from thier bank accounts, they were refused because they had no credit history, despite having more than enough money to cover the £500 limit they were asking for and the assistant could see they had. She had no way of overriding this nor was there anyway to appeal this, it was a blank, 'sorry, hte computer says no'

    If it were just a simple ID card that allowed you things like the ability to vote, open a bank account etc then that might be acceptable, but I think it would be in serious danger of "mission creep" with more and more things being added to it. A birth cetiificate used to be seen as a means of identifying yourself, how long before this ID becomes just another hoop to jump through and a potentially more dangerous one? What would happen if your ID was stolen? What if someone has already stolen your ID and you don't know, who would get the card, or would we both get it?  

  • in reply to TheCatWoman

    If an ID was recognised in these circumstances perhaps it might offer some solution  .  I concur that it might just be added to a series of bureaucratic hoops that one has to jump thro' so regularly that appear sometimes to be used a as a barrier to resolving a problem one has rather than a means of getting something sorted out,  (the "computer says no" sketch from ""Little Britain" a few years ago...