Identity cards

Apparently it's on the agenda for discussion at the Labour Party Conference, I hope the member put a stop to it.

I don't want to have to carry biometric data around with with, nor do I want to be tracked everywhere I go. OK, so I'm not doing anything illegal, but it's getting to the point where poeple think if you use cash you're doing something illegal or don't have a smart phone. I dont' want an ID card either physical or digital.

Im in my 30s and have this issue it’s hard to get my adhd Brian ti be paitnet enough to film the forms out snd aet the money aside if nothing else 

I mean a digital card wirh our biometric data could work to helping us not need physical Id the problem is making it so it ONLY has our biometrics and not any form of tracking data

The UK civil liberties campaign group fighting for a free future, called "Big Brother Watch", has a campaign opposed to ID cards:

https://bigbrotherwatch.org.uk/campaigns/no2digitalid/

Creepy stuff. I signed up as well.

I don't want to take IDs everywhere I go.

Just ask when it is essential.

Thanks for that link, I'm all signed up.

For those against ID cards, there is a petition on the UK Government's petitions website, titled "Do not introduce Digital ID cards":

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/730194

Do you not think that the sorts of people who employ illegals care about documentation?

I wouldn't know how to transfer something from device to device, let alone Mum do it, or any of our elderly neighbours.

Oh what a brilliant idea, lets all be microchipped like dogs! What if you were allergic to the implant? The body would recognise it as a foreign body and make an abcess around it to expell it. I know there are many example of people who have various implants their bodies are quite happy to accept, but some of have bodies that see way to much as foreign bodies.

I don't see the point in having yet another card or device that criminals are able to copy easily, it will become another hoop to jump through. I often feel like a suspected criminal when I say I don't have things like a passport and loads of other ID, I tell them that if I were a real criminal all my ID would be flawless and exactly what was asked for. I feel like it's getting to the point where there's so many hoops that the only people who can jump through them are criminals!

Hello, sorry I don't have more time to go into detail now - I agree with much of what you say and will try to keep this in mind when replying in future.

Thanks for being patient as I know I can be thorny at times.

TheCatWoman said:

Being a techie sort of peron I'm surprised you didn't engage with the idea of how long it will be before criminals can fake them and will we end up still needing a passport, a full driving licence and a utility bill as well as our ID card?

Anything that criminals can subvert for gain will be subverted. I used to work as a "white hat" hacker - ie defending against cyber attacks and what I saw then and later when working with the police is quite dispiriting.

There is a constant arms race we can only ever be on the trailing edge of so there will always be risks of our data being stolen, bank accounts being emptied, devices compromised etc.

I suppose I have accepted this and stopped worrying about it. Instead I take what sensible precautions I can and have a backup plan in case stuff goes wrong. A bit like your health - do what you can to take care while enjoying life but accept that sometimes stuff goes wrong.

One advantage of the single card could be that it is no longer for a single purpose (as passports or driving licenses are for) but can be used in a much wider range of situations. It would be an ideal solution for your mum for example as she does not need to drive or travel to qualify for it.

If they can make it an electronic device then it can be transferred from device to device as you upgrade or even implanted in a chip under your skin in theory. It does make it easier to fake at current technology levels but it is also way too easy to get fake passports, driving licenses etc (don't ask how I know...).

There are plenty of portable devices that could qualify as suitable for your mum - some are completely passive (ie no input, just a display), are credit card sized and can be left in the drawer for a year or two without needing the battery changed.

The upsides outweigh the downsides in this case I think, certainly compared to the laternatives (or lack thereof).

I just had a look at that website and it wouldn't help someone like my Mum, I did ask a building society if they'd allow her to open an account given her lack of ID, they said they could do a credit check, but she's fail that as she owes nothing and hasn't for a good 30 years. When my parents tried to get a credit card when I was trying to persuade them to shop online more and a credit card would offer them an extra level of safety from thier bank accounts, they were refused because they had no credit history, despite having more than enough money to cover the £500 limit they were asking for and the assistant could see they had. She had no way of overriding this nor was there anyway to appeal this, it was a blank, 'sorry, hte computer says no'

If it were just a simple ID card that allowed you things like the ability to vote, open a bank account etc then that might be acceptable, but I think it would be in serious danger of "mission creep" with more and more things being added to it. A birth cetiificate used to be seen as a means of identifying yourself, how long before this ID becomes just another hoop to jump through and a potentially more dangerous one? What would happen if your ID was stolen? What if someone has already stolen your ID and you don't know, who would get the card, or would we both get it?  

www.moneyhelper.org.uk/.../how-to-beat-id-issues-when-opening-a-bank-account

If an ID was recognised in these circumstances perhaps it might offer some solution TheCatWoman .  I concur that it might just be added to a series of bureaucratic hoops that one has to jump thro' so regularly that appear sometimes to be used a as a barrier to resolving a problem one has rather than a means of getting something sorted out,  (the "computer says no" sketch from ""Little Britain" a few years ago...

I htink it would soon become another document you have to have, along with a passport and driving licence and a utility bill, My 91 year old Mum can't change her bank account or open a new one as she no longer has a passport and she's never driven. Lots of older people are in this position, they never have or no longer drive, they no longer travel, if they ever did and what if they live in a care home and have no bills?

I like many of your contributions and certainly wouldn't want you to stop making them, I know many of these things might be inevitable, but that dosen't mean that I have to like them or shouldn't campaign against them. I felt like you were shutting me down and wondered if others of a more timid disposition might feel the same.

It would be really good if you engaged with some of the issues I raise in a more general and less personal manner. Such as how do peope like my Mum who's 91 and I suspect NT and a bit dyspraxic cope with the technology required? She carries the mobile phoe we have when she goes for her newspaper, but I'm not sure she knows how to do more than call 999 and may struggle to do that. I can't even get her to look at my kindle, like many older couples when my Dad was alive using a computer was something they'd struggle through together, my Mum could use the keyboard, but not the mouse and my Dad the mouse but not the keyboard. I know other older people like this too. How will the need for this sort of digital ID effect them? Many don't have people who can help them, some have problems retaining new information anyway especially on something like a phone.

Being a techie sort of peron I'm surprised you didn't engage with the idea of how long it will be before criminals can fake them and will we end up still needing a passport, a full driving licence and a utility bill as well as our ID card?

What about the amount of information carried on such a card and who has access to it and how easy will it be to correct any mistakes, let alone how do you prove who your are if your ID is lost? Maybe you're out fishing and drop your phone in the sea, or have it fall down a ravine when climbing the mountains? It's easy to say that people should be more careful, but they're not, don't forget loads of people have to be rescued from Yr Eryri every year as they try and climb it in flip flops.

you make a good point 190E(Taylor’s version) 

If it classes as free recognised I’d for banks ext im all for it becuse right now people without good income struggle to get id

I am not a supporter of the Reform party and perhaps many of the behaviours associated with their idealism.  Nonetheless I think you may be conflating ides Martin  .  I suspect that any effect on the number of people travelling dangerously to the UK would be negligible and the implementation of ID cards would be done for other reasons - as you imply possibly political.  I trust some people with a knife, others I don't - depends entirely upon how they behave with it.

If their implementation might mean that people who have arrived in this country illegally cannot work and that it then means that the UK is less of an attraction and fewer people die attempting to get here, I think it might be worth the inconvenience. Personally, I think immigration is a non-issue, but it seems to be of major importance to a lot of little Englanders. If ID cards persuade fewer people to vote for Farage's Fascist-clown party then I think an ID card is little enough to pay.