CBT experience went really bad :-(

me trying to be diplomatic!!!

Hehe Them being sh1t at their job maybe! thanks TheCatWoman 

WTF is 'less " than optimal skill demonstration" '?

hehe - good response TheCatWoman  On my part here are maybe ways of communicating that the person may be a jumped up useless wally (oops there I go again) sorry - could perhaps need to look at their own behaviour in context that I maybe need to explore...  I have had other feedback that the organisation concerned may have less "than optimal skill demonstration"... In context tho' I have to go with the flow to do what I can to help myself and sometimes it brings one into rocky outcrops!    Thanks again for your help. :-)

Someone working in mental health services should be used to dealing with awkward people, whether they're deliberately being awkward in a dumb insubordination way or because they feel awkward and most people do. There are ways of challenging awkwardness that don't involve being confrontational, also they know you're autistic, are you expected to be uninterrested in your own care?

I get so fed up with clinicians of all tyes who think I should be grateful and accpet whatever they say at face value, often without listening to me first.It all just makes me think of that old joke, 'Whats the difference between God and a doctor? God dosen't think he can practice medicine!'

I agree, thanks. Expecto_Patronum  another version of repetition has it that practice makes perfect.  Doing he same things over and over if the result is what one is aiming for makes sense (although one needs to monitor for drift and entropy...) and also consider from time to time of the possibility that there is a better way of doing it either thro iterative development or innovation.  As for the measures of success for CBT and autism - my experience is that most of the stressors experienced in life are situational - albeit if one has a strategy for the situation to not be so impactful this is beneficial .. this is more a behavioural approach - that one needs to bring that behaviour to mind cognitively if it is not what one does automatically/subconsciously.  hehe maybe what i'm after is behavioural cognitive therapy 

CBT is very structured. I have done it before but I was fortunate to have a very nice therapist who although she admitted she was no autism specialist tried very hard to make it accessible to me. It sadly did not have much impact but did give me a positive experience of therapy.

I think there can be 2 kinds of people when it comes to learning (a bit of a broad generalisation but oh well). There will be the person that as you say does the same things over and over expecting a different result - perhaps even thinks they know best. And there is the person that just needs their attention drawn to an issue. Once they're aware they will try hard to change the way they do it. Hopefully your therapist fits into the latter.

Hmmm... It takes a long time to learn - I once did biochemistry at uni and the person using the fume cupboard next to me had their equipment fall and they grabbed at a hot retort that fell from the rickety structure, ow!  - suitably bandaged they rebuilt the structure the same rickety way (oh and the supervisors let them...)    Maybe the 3rd time is the trick (if not mortally wounded first!)  Personally I was really poor at getting my head around remembering all the crazy formulae and stuff (it never "stuck") - my lab manual had things like "caution it is hot!! written in it...  Aptitude, desire and the right environment maybe help.  Yep change agreed to - to be fair to them I would find it hard to do their job with how they appeared to expect to do it and who knows how much choice they have about that...  :-)

Hopefully the therapist has learnt and it will be much better but if there is any more issue I think you should definitely push to change.

Thanks TheCatWoman  good questions you raise too.   I am feeling validated by the comments in response to my post - have to admit I probably wound the clinician up just by me being me.  Funny how that doesn't happen so often on this chat site... :-)

I think everbody would need more than 3 minutes after the session had started warning, suppose you had to arrange childcare, time off work or had to travel for a 30 mins? It sounds totally like it's thier mess up and they need to get their act together.

There are some therapists who feel threatened by a client asking questions, but their job is to out you at ease in order for the therapy they offer to be of any use to you, especially at a first appointment. 

I wonder what their ASC training is? Have any people with ASC been involved in formulating the training material?

hehe - short and snappy - better! 

Thanks Expecto_Patronum yes another therapist - the one that teaches the therapists "in house" about autism and the manager simply put said "give it another go"...  I too hope it goes well :-)

There was obviously a break down of communication. There really is no excuse on the therapists part to not have sent you the link, reminding once is one thing but not repeatedly.

It's difficult to judge from just reading one side of a story and not having witnessed it but I am surprised by the therapists reaction. They may not have in-depth autism knowledge but their entire job is to do with helping people with mental health difficulties so they should have an understanding that people with anxiety etc are likely to jump to conclusions and feel wronged etc whether they have autism or not. I feel like they could have dealt with this better with a little bit of unpicking. "What makes you ask that?" could have been a better response. You could have then explained your side and they could have explained theirs. You both would have then had a better understanding of how each other were feeling. They should have apologised as soon as the meeting started that you'd only just had the invitation. Your feelings about not having it are totally valid.

I also don't see why it would be at all unreasonable to ask their experience with autism. That is very significant when it comes to CBT. If they were in fact that experienced with autism they would know that CBT needs to be adapted for autism and would talk you through the steps involved (don't know what they are myself if I'm honest). 

Obviously there has to be a boundary between therapist and client and the therapist is entitled to stop the session if they feel they need to. But I'm struggling to see the need in this situation. You were merely asking for your needs to be met which is completely reasonable and also essential for therapy to be effective.

I'm very sorry you had this experience.

Reading the comments below I see you spoke with their manager and are going to have the opportunity to give your thoughts on the autism side to someone. I think this sounds very promising and I hope it goes well.

Was anything decided on what was happening with you moving forward with your CBT? I think I'd be requesting a different therapist after that experience.

I heard the joke differently:

[Cop pulls over Schrödinger for speeding on motorway]

Cop: Excuse me sir, but do you realise that you were driving at 97 miles per hour?

Schrödinger: Damn! Now I'm lost!

Fab - lots to trail thro' :-)  maybe that will fill my glass again.  I'm a physio and have looked for similar group in my field - no luck yet.  (note to self - perhaps I should extract a digit and do something about that)  There is a disability group in my professional body, tho' that's not particularly well populated or active.  In a different but maybe connected area - peculiar how ableism sometimes exists in the very groups that are there to help people with disabilities...  something to do with emotion fatigue maybe...  or just people are often fundamentally nasty to one another   oops more glass mostly empty  Thanks again DormouseAtRest_25 

Maybe this will be of more interest:

linktr.ee/autisticdoctors

hehe boot and trunk in the same post - comes with copy and paste plagiarism  and not checking enough!

Good idea about the prep Damojo hehe, ironically reckon my being prepared was one of the problems for the clinician  -  quick take home I've already picked up on based on my last experience is that the clinician was very keen to explain that CBT is about "cognitive" as far as they were concerned  the second link that Iain posted https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6150418/  clearly points to the importance of focus on the behavioural component.  When I pointed out that that was what I really find is the most useful thing for me to learn that didn't go down well with the clinician...  Apples and pears it seems...  Flexibility and adaptability goes both ways...

Schrodinger's Cat at present if you get my meaning Damojo 

Which reminds me of a joke:   Schrödinger and Heisenberg get pulled over by the police for speeding. The cop asks "Do you know exactly how fast you were going?" Heisenberg replies "No, because we knew exactly where we were." Thinking this to be suspicious the cop searches the car and asks them to open the boot. He then returns to the window and says "Did you know you had a dead cat in your trunk?" and Schrödinger replies "Well, we couldn't be sure until someone looked." They were both promptly arrested.  At the court case when asked about what happened Schrodinger says: "Honestly, I can't say for sure. The incident happened in a state of superposition, both before and after the events."

P'raps I should just stick to fart jokes?  :-)