Help with Just Ignore them

Asking here, as pretty much desperate and trying to find someone (anyone) who might be able to help.

I work doing technical work in a team of 7 people, which is part of a wider team of rough 20 total. My issue is with the behaviour of one member of the team, who I'll call M.

M every single day 

  • Yells down the phone at people (I mean I am sitting over 6 feet away from him and I can hear every word of his conversation with headphones in and volume turned up)
  • Will throw a 10-15 minute tantrum in any meeting he is in because he doesn't like the work he's been asked to do (the same or less than the rest of the team, who are not doing this)
  • Flat refuses to do work (for example we are expected in January to all complete a report for our customers. M refuses to do so and the rest of us have to cover for him).
  • Is firm that he doesn't like the way the business is run, but refuses to offer any suggestions to make things better and refuses to cooperate with any efforts to improve things for our team (for example, reporting our work in a consistent manner, M insists that it should be possible to get this information from the company system and then promptly moans when management has tried this and it shows that he has considerably less work than others on the team that it isn't covering all the work)

This is not just me being affected by this. At least 3 people other than me on our team have reported it to our manager and our team leader (like a manager, but without the HR Powers). Our Manager flatly refuses to do anything about it. Last time it was raised with her by me, I was threatened with HR Mediation. HR are aware that there are problems with M's behaviour (for example emailing the COE to get holiday signed off when our manager and her manager were away for 2 days), but again don't want to act (M has been with the business for nearly 20 years and at 55 is felt to be too near retirement). Team Leader is very sympathetic that there is a problem with M's behaviour (she sits right next to him, so is even more affected than I am), but has no power to do anything about it. I have done my best to limit my interactions with M, but it's kind of difficult as 1. we share an open plan office with other teams (so again behaviour is observed and noted not just within immediate team) and 2. It is insisted that we have monthly team meetings, where we are supposed to be briefed on what is going on in the wider team and business and check in if anyone is struggling, whose on holiday and what reports that affect everyone is due. the trouble is that these meetings are almost continuously hijacked by M to moan about the business (3 times in a three quarter of an hour meeting today, which is mostly what has prompted this). Management appear to allow this in the view that it will stop him from moaning outside of the meetings (it doesn't, but that's their theory).

The advise I keep getting is "Just Ignore him" or "Don't let him get to you"

Under the circumstances, I am not denying that this is good advise. However,  the difficulty, for me at least (the rest of the team doesn't seem to struggle as much with it) is enacting this advise.  So looking for suggestions as to how to physically go about this. My personal experience of this also is that it doesn't work. that the Ignoree just ups their ante until they get the response they are looking for from people, however, if I can make it work (which I currently can't), I'm prepared to try it. 

For anyone thinking this situation is bad management and/or toxic, I am not going to disagree with you. We have had repeated promises that actions will be taken to sort this situation out, but progress is slow, mostly because the wider team had 3 people off sick with stress last year (our team came extremely close to having at least 2 people off with stress, but we managed to avoid this by sheer stubbornness, possibly a tactical mistake, but at the time we weren't looking at it that way). Manager's focus is thus on trying to sort out the wider issues. I am looking for another job, but in addition to the usual nightmare that is job searching, my company pays considerably over the market rate for what I do and offers excellent terms and conditions, so any role I am applying for wants to know why I want to leave and it is not generally considered good careers move (especially in a small industry) to say toxic management, which makes them understanding why I want to leave difficult and the high salary means that they are reluctant to employ me because it's expensive. 

Thus I am looking for advise to help me to cope without going off with stress (though it might solve the problem by forcing the issue on the wider attention) or burning out. 

I think my frustration is the pointlessness of it all. If M's moaning seemed to make him happy, then I think I could bear it, but it isn't making him happy, it's making everyone else miserable, it wastes time and is frankly non stop for the last 6 years (We've had 9 changes of manager in 5 years, which I completely acknowledge has not helped any of the issues in the team).

  • Thank you to everyone for advise (if for merely confirming that I am not the only person and I am doing as much as I can). Post this spoke to my manager. She again acknowledged my concerns and that I was correct. She believes that M plans to retire next year and that is why she is reluctant to go down the disciplinary route, seeing it as a waste of time and energy. I'm not entirely sure I agree with this an attitude, as the problems are of long standing, but I do understand her reasoning better.  Not sure I'm happier with it (my job search will continue), but after over a year of people denying that there was a problem, I'll take what I can get. Thank you again. 

  • Not something I'd considered, I'll be honest. Problem started under a male manager. It has not improved under female managers, but I can't tell if that just steps have not been taken to stop the behaviour or whether it's a response to female manager. My Manager's manager managed us for about 5 months, so is aware of the problem. Jury is out on whether seeing if manager solves problem or giving both enough rope to hang themselves with. Unfortunately, while the last line is my preferred solution (it is the only one that I've ever found that works), it would result in me in HR, so not one I want to pursue immediately (though thank you for confirming I am not mad for viewing this as a good option. My team has made me like a mad woman for expressing this as a method of handling it)

  • Unfortunately that (asking them to quiet because I wanted to hear what someone else was saying), has just got me into trouble in the past. I am keeping a log of the most grievous incidents (I kept a log when we first came back post COVID, but had to stop as 1. it was depressing and 2. it was pretty much every interaction). I admit I'm with you on 55 not been that close to retirement, but that's the business view. 

  • Ask to move to another area.

    Ask to work from home some days,  assuming you might want this.

    Don't cover for the person. Let them expose themselves. If they consistently underperform or refuse work it will be impossible to ignore.

    If they keep hijacking meetings and complaining ask them to be quiet if they have no suggestions for improvement as you want to hear the update. 

    You could try writing all the instances down. It might either help to show how much it happens, or maybe show you imagine it is a bit worse than it actually is. I'm not doubting you, but it might help get some perspective, just in case.

    Negative team members are bad for teams and need to be managed.

    55 is not that close to retirement, they could go on till 67.

  • Maybe he feels he should be a manager? Maybe he dosen't like women managers, maybe he's a spoilt brat, it is bad management that he's been allowed to get away with behaving like this for so long. Him being close to retirement isn't an excuse either, can you go over the managers head adn tell someone higher up exactly how badly this guy is affecting the team and that he's costing them money by stressing other out to the point they end having time off for stress and by the sounds of it everyone's scared of him.

    Either that or stand up to him, tell him to stop throwing his toys out of the pram, grow up and get a grip!