Would you ban Christmas

I wouldn't ban Christmas, as there are some things I rather like about it.

However, if I had my way there would be no Christmas adverts on TV until the beginning of December, which I think is how it used to be. I feel like the Christmas adverts were broadcast much earlier this year, and I can safely say the novelty of seeing them has now worn off.

If shops insist on playing festive-themed music, maybe limit it to the fortnight leading up to Christmas Day.

Perhaps as a result of the cost of living, I think more people are starting to realise that one doesn't need to go overboard in terms of buying gifts. I see this as a good thing.

IrishInManchesterUK said:

if only humanity would folllow His Teachings as laid down in this rule book

To take a famous quote from the West Wing (some references to locations changed for the UK):

You mean Leviticus 18:22 (That verse, by the way, reads: "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; such thing is an abomination.")

"I'm interested in selling my youngest daughter into slavery as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. She's a Cambridge University graduate, speaks fluent Italian, always cleaned the table when it was her turn. What would a good price for her be?"

"Some admins on this, insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly says they should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill them myself or is it okay to call the police?"

"Here's one that's really important cause we've got a lot of sports fans in this town: touching the skin of a dead pig makes one unclean. Leviticus 11:7 If they promise to wear gloves can the Premier League team still play football? Can Acrinton Stanley?

"Does the whole town really have to be together to stone my brother, John, for planting different crops side by side? Can I burn my mother in a small family gathering for wearing garments made from two different threads?

"Think about those questions, would you?"

Alien0n3arth said:

I liked the Christmas tree in my grannies, it was always natural with the nice smell, with gingerbreads hang on it, also other old Christmas balls and the decorations made by ourselves.

A nice memory.

I like the idea of gingerbreads on the tree - I don't think we have that in England.

I have vintage baubles which I love.

.

I very much see the Bible as the Word of God, regardless of how it is rewritten and translated, used by earthly kings and as a rule book and if only humanity would folllow His Teachings as laid down in this rule book, there would be far less problems in this world, where following His Rules, not ours, is a far better course to follow, as mankind is fundamentally flawed without God’s Divne Guidance and Divine Assistance - it is therefore not for us to question any of this, which is also why I’ve come to realise that attempting to understand God through science, such as in the Reformation and the Renaissance, was hugely misguided and was in grave error - I absolutely believe that the Bible must become a manual for life, coming from God, our King, our Divine Magistrate and our Divine Commanding Officer, as we are Soldiers of Christ on earth and we are Commanded to spread His Message 

And that’s of course entirely up to you, which is kind of the point. Tolerance. None of us have to follow a religion to appreciate the wisdom of Christ’s teachings. I think all the major religions have, at their core, some fundamentally wise teachings. I don’t have to follow the religion to follow the message. 

I know a few Bible scholars who would take issue with your comments about the Bible’s authorship. I won’t start an argument about veracity because I agree that since those accounts were written down, it’s been messed around with over the centuries by Kings and translators and subverted as a tool to manage the masses during less scientifically enlightened times. Even without the tampering, it’s a hard read full of stories that use phraseology of the time, some of which convey different or no meaning today. Many, taken literally today, sound ridiculous. But the book doesn’t need to be a manual for life for it to still have value, nor does its history weaken the central message and wisdom of that faith, in my opinion. 

I think that trying to separate the teaching from the teacher would be a bad idea. Without a movement, some kind of label or name, no one would pay attention to those teachings. I take your point though: precious few pay any attention anyway. 

Every Christmas or any other gathering I used to always take a break and disappear. It was too much and unbearable for me. I never understood that craziness with gifts and dresses etc. while my sister, auntie, cousin etc they were very much concerned what they gonna wear I just jumped in something that was relatively comfortable, a bit elegant but nothing special and I have never bought any dress special for this occasion. Also the gifts, in my family it was resolved the way that we drawed each other and this way everyone had a gift but not a pile of gifts. I also remember the arguments and I wondered how important is the fish made my step dads way to destroy the whole Christmas. I liked the Christmas tree in my grannies, it was always natural with the nice smell, with gingerbreads hang on it, also other old Christmas balls and the decorations made by ourselves. Preparation for Christmas was fun with my grands. That was the real taste of it. Now, when I see a delivery of Christmas decorations coming in august I start feeling sick of it. It’s so commercial, that it has lost its magic. 

I see it as freeing people from the tyranny of arbitrary time observances.

As a traditional Catholic, I totally agree with and support these ideals 

Arise said:

Christmas is meant to be a celebration of Christ’s birth and his teachings. 

There are 2 issues I see around this statement.

1 - the bible (ie the source of stories about Christ) was mostly written between 50 and 90 years after he died.

Even if the eyewitnesses were 20 at the time he died, then they would be between 70 and 110 years old when their memories were written down. Do you think people of this age bracket are likely to have an accurate and unbiassed account of events?

When I speak with elderly aquantancies then they tend to give a very selective edit of events from their side that tells it how they want it to come across. I highly doubt there is much accuracy in these tales.

2 - the stories have been edited by committee countless times over the millenia. Lots of problematic parts have been edited out through the years (see the King James edits for an idea of how much was modified to suit the agenda of the time) and much of the earlier fire and brimstone prose has been softened by the church to make it more appealing.

While the values preached are noble in intent, I think they are much better taken in a non-denomenational context and the religion removed completely.

No absolutely not 

Christmas is meant to be a celebration of Christ’s birth and his teachings. To respond to human need through love and service. To transform unjust structures of society, to challenge violence and to pursue peace and reconciliation. To safeguard the integrity of creation and sustain and renew the life of the earth. To teach these things to others. To love one another.

Why would anyone want to ban that?

What is has become is not what it should be, but banning isn’t the answer, in my opinion.

Surely a ban is forcing people, something that you seem to be against?

I find the change in routine difficult to adjust to. I’m currently working and it’s a struggle and the sudden break during summer and winter makes going back again more difficult. At the moment I’m used to going in every week but come Dec 19^th I’ll be off until Jan 6^th next year and I know I’ll be so anxious about going back again. I always am.

I also don’t like how unstructured this time of year is. You don’t know how loud music in shops will be, how bright lights will be etc etc. There’s so much to consider and try to think about all at the same time. This side of Xmas I really do not enjoy.

I would certainly ban the over-commercialisation of Christmas, which I firmly believe is totally Christian festival and not a “pagan” one (so I dispute the dubious and historically misleading accounts of its being linked to paganism) - to me as a devout traditional Catholic, Christmas reveals to us the stubbornly ungovernability and stubbornly wilful disobedience of mankind, who needs to understand and accept that until we clearly reject the lies of Satan, that there will forever be conflict and discord in our world, so we must return to traditional Catholic moral values - these values can only be installed right from the start in childhood by parents who raise their children properly and are free to do so - we see how Catholic nations like Poland are trying to hold onto their Catholic Moral Values especially where it concerns their children and I am a huge supporter of these efforts - beyond a certain point, just like how other religions do, we have to use force to enforce the religious teachings and to protect and preserve our sacred traditions 

I'm not so sure of that. I think it is a deeply instinctive thing to want for a festival at the darkest, and therefore to some, the most miserable time of the year. All the extra lighting is to counter the lack of sunlight, and the desire to see longer days in the spring again. Possibly too, it is a good time to fatten up on the harvest reserves, in preparation for the coldest part of winter. 

Nowadays many people are less thrilled about the extra pounds accrued from all the feasting and merriment. 

Not quite in the spirit of a good naughty Saturnalia fest then

Yes. I would go further and ban birthdays and anniversaries in general, anything that forces people to do things just because it is a particular day of the year. Ban, ban, ban! 

Time is slippery for me, I have trouble with times of the day and dates. Plus it is just arbitrary in a number of ways, the spinning of the Earth, the revolution of the Moon and the circuit of the Earth around the Sun have no connection to each other, and the number of times the calendar has been changed (the last occasion for Britain was as late as 1752), makes dates a somewhat artificial construct.

I wouldn’t ban it but I am conflicted.

As a kid I loved Christmas like any other child but as an adult it’s a very lonely experience and just another reminder that I’m not really part of human society. I also lost both my parents very close to Christmas which adds a bit of extra sadness. Although for some reason New Year’s Eve  is much worse in this respect.

I know it’s a wonderful time for most people and I wouldn’t deprive them of that but it would be nice if it was easier to tune it out and pretend it’s not happening (but it’s every where - TV, shops, work even lights in the street).

You're not alone Debbie, It took me many years to shake off the expectations of others. Although we've always had the no visitors on Christmas day rule, when we were younger we did the seeing family/friends over the holiday period, buying a load of cards & presents, going to New Year's eve parties, etc. I much prefer how we do things now.