Preparing for PIP assessment - What to expect/traps?

Are you surprised.  The system is setup and designed to fail us.  If you show any sort of weakness they will stamp your face in the mud at the first possibility.

Getting PIP is very hit and miss.  I hate to say go with the act, but you really don't get anything by being nice in this day and age.

I was told that I had DLA for life until PIP came along. The assessment day had a phone call saying it was cancelled due to assessors being unwell. Explained to the receptionist that I couldn't take days off at short notice. Explained that the appointment are random. Lucky found me an appointment next day in the afternoon. Turned up, saw cctv cameras (some claimed that they couldn't walk); the assessor was behind writing notes in a previous session. Kept on asking what sort of house live in and education etc.

Scored zero points and the assessment form had words didn't understand or not completed. They're no experts in autism. Decided to do the mandatory Reconsideration and came back zero points. Thought was approaching Christmas and decided not to take it any further.

Felt absolutely sick the way the government treating the disabled. DWP will usually start to review your claim one year before your award ends. When the DWP reviews your claim, they send you a letter with a renewal form. Glad that I didn't take it further. Celebrities have the same problem as they need mobility cars and carers etc.

Ended up leaving after 11 years, which was handled badly. I was having dark thoughts due to this and unwell. 

PIP kicked me off because I was referred to the gym for my mental health.  But ESA kept me on for having mental health issues.  Go figure. 

TBH, the ESA assessors, was looking at my medical records and all he wanted to know was if I'd tried to kill myself and when i said yes, that was it, signed off indefinitely.  PIP, couldn't care less if I did or didn't.  in case people are wondering i'm not that bad currently, a lot of that happened throughout the lockdown.

So the first time I went for assessment my doctor told me to not sleep for as many days as possible before the assessment.  So I stayed awake for two days pretty much then went for assessment.  They asked me all the usual questions, asked me to do things which I obviously couldn't do (and I couldn't do them anyway regardless of my state at the time).  I got barely enough points to get the bottom level, but did manage to get it for two years.  When i was in hospital one christmas I was shocked at the number of people getting top tier PIP and in better states than I was.  So the system is probably broken as well.

Next assessment was last year.  I got 0 points.  i did appeal it and that got me 8 points, but still not close to what I needed and the stress was enough for me to not take it any further.  It was useful to me to have it and it paid for a lot of parking charges for hospital visits, fuel for my car to get to them and some other health costs.

You should expect to have to appeal it.  I got told that a late very few people get it now.  Most have to take it to the second level of appeal where a judge looks at it.  Although someone I know went to that level and put the appeal in and was immediately given PIP, so maybe the gov is trying to avoid swamping the courts with appeals.  It seems if you make a big thing out of it and become a real pain in the posterior for them, that you have a higher chance of getting it.  The ones that give up probably drop the numbers enough for their pseudo stats.

I Sperg said:

Last time I looked it was £64 a week entitlement for such as me, IF I WAS PREPARED TO BEG (play the game) FOR IT. 

In terms of the hassle for it, maybe it's not actually all that 'worth it', but I think I'm set mostly on some kind of principle, this idea that I have had help doing points tests and clearly meet the conditions so I just want that which I should be entitled to (especially, honestly, when there are some folk out there who appear to have gamed the system to get it when they probably shouldn't).

I can sometimes waste quite a bit of time and effort on things like this for the principle of it. The last time I did anything similar was when my brother got me a phone sim and they changed the fees unbeknownst to us, my brother noticed months later in one of his statements (he was paying) and even though it wasn't much money and it wasn't even my money I knew that they had to make customers aware of these kind of changes and so I should be able to get a refund. I hassled the company in social media DMs back and forth until eventually they paid up the ten or twenty quid refund or whatever it was

MArt said:

Don’t say anything positive be very negative about every thing and really lay it on thick.

Probably my main weakness usually with things like this is I naturally feel like I want to downplay things and present myself better than I am but I've been taking down lots of notes and I'm hoping to make use of them like cues to make sure I'm saying all the negatives I need to say.

AuTriker said:

Might be best to just refuse to participate in small talk on the grounds of being autistic!

I genuinely wouldn't be able to anyway once they say the assessments 'over' I want to curl up and get out of there.

Where do I start!

Good to have someone with you.

You can record the interview but you have to have a tape machine that can record two tapes at the same time, so that one can be retained by the PIP assessor, if you don’t have one, then they won’t allow you to record the assessment. I can’t remember where I bought mine but it wasn’t difficult to find, probably googled. You also need to give them advance warning so that they know it’s your intention.

Even though they tell you that the assessor is qualified to make an informed opinion, ask to see some proof of their suitability. If they ask why, say you want reassuring that they are what they say they are because they have the power to deny you your rights!

They clearly have a checklist of signs to look out for, to determine whether you have ‘Mental Health’ issues, I use that term just for convenience, I’m not suggesting you do but it will be something they look for to make a determination and decision.

While I don’t know what that checklist consists of, some of the things they’ve turned me down in the past,

1. I didn't rock

2. I was able to make eye contact

3. I was too well kept in my appearance, clean clothes, looked clean and washed.

4. I spoke too well able to hold a conversation and I was coherent 

These are just some of the things they’ve used against me.

If you get offered an assessment in person or online, online might be better because you can always say you get anxious travelling by bus, tube or train, even taxi because of strangers.

Whichever you go for, make sure you look uncomfortable, fidget, don’t make continuous eye contact, keep looking away or down. Make sure your appearance looks scruffy even dirty, clothes, hair etc.,

Basically present the worse case scenario, even if things aren’t too bad at the moment. Don’t say anything positive be very negative about every thing and really lay it on thick.

While you may think what I’m suggesting is dishonest, you have to play the game, to beat them at their own.

Their remit is to make it as difficult for claimants, the form itself is a nightmare, for people like us, they know that and it’s part of their attempt to put people off or to stress them out so much they don’t bother or give up.

You’ll likely be rejected first time, this is another tactic, knowing a lot of people will accept their decision. Don’t be put off, do appeal. This may also be rejected on the same grounds.

Don't give up, again they’ll be relying on people to do so. Tell them it’s your intention to take it to the Independent Tribunal. I’ve done this on two occasions, it’s never got that far, they’ve always backed down and miraculously they’ve suddenly found things that now qualify you/me!

It’s deliberate behaviour to make it as hard as possible.

While I realise if you go through with my suggestions, it can be exhausting and extremely tough on you but stick up for yourself, you deserve it.

If you can also get supporting letters, it’s a good idea, doctor, relevant people and list people they can contact for more information. Even though they will probably not take these up, you can always ask if they did and if they say no, then use that to pressurise them into doing so.

I know this is a lot of work for you but please let me reiterate you have to play their game and stick up for yourself and it’s not being dishonest, they force people to take this drastic behaviour because of their own behaviour and ignorance.

Hope that helps and good luck.

I had way more than that and had to keep rejecting them. I think though that it might have been because I was rejecting them because they had failed to meet my stated needs. If you didn't state needs then you might have more trouble. You should have specified being given enough advance notice, both because you needed to be able to book your companion and because of your autism not reacting well to sudden things. But I would have thought even without stated needs that such short notice would be inappropriate. But of course they didn't give you time to check! And you probably couldn't say you had a stomach bug.

AuTriker said:

And why were they phoning you with such short notice?

I think, although I'm not 100% sure, they have to give you a choice of two appointments, if you reject both they can close your claim.  My choice was 9 am or 10 am the next morning.  Dirty tricks ?

I'd just have refused either. I had so much difficulty getting an appointment to meet my stated criteria! I had to get my MP involved. I ended up with an at home assessment as they kept trying to send me to a city I had stated I was too anxious to go to in an unsuitable building. And why were they phoning you with such short notice? I had mine as letters.

In my experience government money is a bit like heroin.

Taking it regularly corrodes your sense of self until there is just the habit, and doing what you need to do to satisfy it, left.

I bloody KNOW I'm not really independent, and require assistance to get by, but for me P.I.P. appears to be a trap. 

I Got a crib sheet for it from a Kashmiri mate, (he's been here forty years, but still "sends money home" so I guess he identfies as non-english) who's managed to game at least one house in his time, and all the bennies known to man, and basically you have to make a firm case that you are utterly helpless, and you get points for "style & inventiveness".

The thing is, you don't actually get enough money to get by if you really are useless, which makes the benefit "unsuitable for purpose" in my book, and you have to accept the label of being "useless" which frankly would not sit well with me, and most likely increase my susceptibilty to depressive episodes, or corrode my will to win outside of the game of "keeping the bennies going".   

Last time I looked it was £64 a week entitlement for such as me, IF I WAS PREPARED TO BEG (play the game) FOR IT. 

Stuff that, I own a petrol mower and strimmer and have the ability to use them. I get more than that £64 after a day of light gardening, and the experience builds me up psychologcially, not tears me down like any form of begging done over a long period will.

Mine is not always a popular perspective with the Audience, and probably appears useless to those more poor than me.

But most people who are visbily poorer than me, have massive "turnover of money" or "High cashflow" and need that money.

Money is not empowering, it is most often an obstacle placed artificially between you and what you need, in order to bleed off fractions of your effort, time, LIFE to feed a bunch of parasites.. 

You can get what you need by going after it directly and using your time, effort and LIFE directly, and often that is a better way of getting things that you want too. 

Equally, "money" for most people is a very well accepted medium of exchange, and in some situations it is the right tool for the job.

But WAY less of those situations exist than most people think.

WAY less.

And you can take that to the bank...

AuTriker said:

Have someone with you if possible, who is on your side.

I agree, but the assessors like to play tricks to prevent this.  In my PIP appointment, I received a phone call at 4:30pm inviting me to an assesment giving me a choice of two appointment slots. 9am  or 10am both the following morning.  The person who was supposed to accompany me was my mental health advisor, but I couldn't contact her in time.

That's ridiculous and offensive! I don't expect they asked if you had any external help while studying?! Or if the experience left you burnt out.

Might be best to just refuse to participate in small talk on the grounds of being autistic!

Have someone with you if possible, who is on your side. Even if they don't do or say anything, just having them there might make sure the assessor is more careful. Also if you can record it. Mine was just before covid so 4 years ago and they would only allow that to be by a tape recorder!! Yes, we had some difficulty fining such old tech that still worked! But having that is also both a deterrent and a useful source of evidence if you have to take it further.

Do not try to be polite! Although obviously don't be so rude it is seen as threatening. Our instinct is to try and be nice and behave well, but that is not going to go in your favour. Better to try and not mask, though I find it hard to do that, and didn't even know I was autistic at mine (I am also physically disabled and it was mostly for that though I did tell them about my anxiety, which they downplayed and disbelieved as usual).

The assessment is long and tiring. If you need a break make sure you ask for it, though I find it hard to notice how I am feeling until it is too late. That's another reason it is good to have another person with you, in case you need to shut down for a bit. I worry that having a meltdown or shutdown half way through, while ought to be good evidence you get them, might just mean they say you didn't complete the assessment and throw the case out! But I don't actually know what they do if that happens.

There is info out there about what to expect, various forums and sources of help. I'm really sorry but I am too burnt out to give links as I am in the middle of my reapplying review thingy they make you suffer every few years. Good luck with it. Most likely you'll get turned down and have to appeal, but 75% of appeals are successful. Ridiculously awful system.

Beware of informal conversations after the assessment has officially finished.  Everything you do or say is analysed.   I was asked about my standard of education as parting smalltalk.  Although there are no education questions in the assessment. The fact that I have a degree was used in the written report to justify giving me zero points because I don't need any external help with my life.