TW: Autistic teenagers found guilty of heinous crime

Yes, it's all very disturbing. They did seem to have a fascination with Brianna's trans status, which seemed to be part of their calculations. It's way beyond my pay grade to untangle the complexities of all this, but my hope for 2024 is that people will begin to moderate their language about issues like this where real lives are at stake. I think it's probably a vain hope. 

Worth noting that they had a list of several people they wanted to kill. Brianna wasn’t even their first choice victim. But I do agree.

I could just smile while committing the crime, nobody would recognise me!

I've just been reading about this. The boy was only able to communicate in court via text messages. I am worried about people focusing on the pair's autism, rather than the other factors that may have played into this, not least the ugly culture wars raging around trans issues at present. 

The thing about that particular case is it was seen as a test as to whether or not people who committed such crimes at such a young age could be rehabilitated. 

ANd  based on the tiny sample size of two people, they got the worst possible answer. yes they can about 50% of the time. if people like that had been seen as completely irredeemable many would’ve felt comfortable throwing away the key.

on the other hand if very young very extreme offenders were seem to be easy to rehabilitate some people would feel much more comfortable about the idea of a rehabilitative approach to punishing very young extreme offenders aimed at bringing them back into the community as soon as they have reformed.

The uncomfortable reality is it is possible for extreme offenders, extreme young offenders to be reformed. But it’s not easy and it’s far from guaranteed it will work.

Anti-face recognition make-up = that is the way forward Robert, in my hopeful opinion!

I think that many of us autistic souls would look very appropriate with it....far more "otherly" than a hoodie.

It is worth having a Google to see?

Yes - glad you raised this and put it here Amerantin.  This "dude" is a serious "next level" genius....who has merely (arguably) channelled his genius into less than helpful activity........thus far !!!

I sincerely doubt that this "indefinite hospital order" is much other than the-forces-that-be endlessly trying to turn him to use his genius for (arguably) "good" purposes.

I'm sure Mi5 will be "all over" this soul for the rest of his life - and/or vice verser !

I did see a tv news report on the case, the reporter stated that one person is diagnosed ASD and the other shows ASD traits. The defence solicitors were trying to use it as a  defence, that is wrong, we all know right from wrong. I watch London news, most stabbing doesn’t even make the news unless it’s a particularly heinous crime, the amount of serious crimes committed by autistic people is very low, the media loves to ‘jump on’ something that is different.  

The James Bulger case was mentioned recently, one of the convicted has gone on to lead a normal life and never reoffended, the other is still in prison for reoffending by possessing child images. There normally will be one dominant person who eventually convinces the other who is often vulnerable themselves. The two in the current case will be put in different prisons, it will be interesting to see what psychiatrists find.

I should have said serious crime. A bank robbery for example or a major Art heist.  I would not feel confident   about successfully pulling off either.

To combat CCTV many people wear a hoodie.  And there are legitimate reasons for wearing a face mask.

Crime is  something that is very hard to get away with in Britain.  Because of CCTV. We are we are one of the most watched over populations in the world.

I agree with this. Only the very stupid will see this story and think  "I hate everybody with Autism now".  A sizeable proportion of the population probably directly know someone with Autism.  So those people will realise not everyone with Autism is a murderer.

Autistic people aren't as reciprocal as NT's.  Because they don't understand non verbal communication as well as NT's do.  But this doesn't mean that Autists lack empathy.

I have often remarked about the incompetence of many criminals before commenting on the crime.

I reckon I’d be much more careful and that may be in part because of my logical systematising approach to things.

Just as well I’m a good guy who is somewhat rule-bound

If they had more sense they would have used WhatsApp and deleted all the messages, just like Boris Johnson.

If they’d been more autistic, more detail oriented, more careful in their research, They’d have been less likely to get caught.

only an idiot conducts a criminal conspiracy via text message.

But there is a distinction between empathy and sympathy. I think it’s very important to recognise it. Sympathy implies that you kind of can put yourself in the other persons head and feel as they feel. Empathy merely implies concern the suffering of others.

and autistic person can be empathetic towards someone who has stubed their toe. But may find it harder to relate and sympathise with someone Who is having an emotional breakdown over something they might consider irrational.

I think the two killers really are autistic because they are not very streetwise.  They left all these messages in cyberspace to incriminate themselves.

There is no “no-empathy ASD” as you put it. All autistic people have the capacity for empathy. This idea you’re talking about doesn’t exist. People have been working hard to try and dispel some of these myths and you’re just adding to them. There may be autistic people that don’t have empathy but that has nothing to do with autism. It’s not a type of autism. Plenty of non autistic people have no or little empathy. 

Society does not nurture intelligence, and talent, alas.