Eye contact.

I find eye connect really off putting tbh.

When people look at me and I look at there eyes I feel really uncomfortable and pretty much go mute unable to speak

Can almost feel there stare burning my retina.

I look at people's mouths when talking to them I find it a lot easier and more comfortable :) 

Meeting and talking to people socially is a big drain and causes anxiety, eye contact is like someone looking into my soul. I’ve been changing the “rules” of what’s expected from me. Eye contact is only when I want to, not because I have to. Smiles are for when I mean it, not because it’s expected of me. I don’t need to earn someones friendship.

The being sociable part is because we have observed it since young and think we can emulate their behaviour to fit in. We can become very good at it but eventually do something different that  is deemed strange. If I’m honest, as an adult,  boredom sets in and even retaining  a friendship becomes secondary to my needs.

For most autistic people, time alone isn’t being unsociable, I sometimes observe neurotypical groups of people, they seem to crave being part of a group and vie for attention. Their rules seem far too complicated. I don’t obviously speak for all but that urge has never been in me. I’m more than happy just “people watching “.

Eye contact I too find deeply uncomfortable but it's hard to explain why.

I always look at the mouth when the other person is speaking, even when watching tv. I find that helps me to try to process what they say. When I'm speaking I'd really rather not even look at the other person.

I was probably well into my 20s or even 30s before I learned that eye contact was something that was expected. Nobody ever teaches these things! 

Amerantin (former member) said:

But I have so many deeply ingrained scripts now that I can usually pick and choose from them and adapt reasonably well on the fly. Sometimes this fails though and I’m left literally unable to say anything. This is especially likely to happen if I’m tired or overstimulated.

Me too.

My brain has a lifetime of ingrained, previously used and well worn scripts filed away. The only trouble is the filing system seems to have become somewhat disorganised!

Sometimes what comes out isn't necessarily the right script for that situation or it fails completely, as happens in your case.

LastHorizon said:

On another point on scripts. I am less talkative than I was when I was younger because my ability to work out scripts and ideas in my head and memorise and recall them has deteriorated since I was a teenager. Now, I can start working on a script and lose track or immediately forget it.

I've definitely noticed this too. It takes so much energy and focus that it becomes progressively harder to do as I age. 

Also I think I'm less inclined to script now that I understand it is masking and how detrimental to health that can be.

I’m certainly not as sharp as I used to be, although I think chronic burnout is one of the causes.

But I have so many deeply ingrained scripts now that I can usually pick and choose from them and adapt reasonably well on the fly. Sometimes this fails though and I’m left literally unable to say anything. This is especially likely to happen if I’m tired or overstimulated.

I have to go to a work conference next week where I’ll be expected to network. I’m dreading it. Will likely find a corner to hide in. 

On another point on scripts. I am less talkative than I was when I was younger because my ability to work out scripts and ideas in my head and memorise and recall them has deteriorated since I was a teenager. Now, I can start working on a script and lose track or immediately forget it. Not that it may be relevant to your own experience but these days I find it far harder to walk into work (or school as it was decades ago) with quite a long list of memorised scripts for the various situations I knew I would face. I don't find it easy to work on scripts at all any more and tend to be far more quiet than I once was because I have no script to recall for the situation more of the time. 

Hehehehe. I like starting discussions here. They always generate really interesting answers like the ones here and very often people do give helpful advice, as there is here too. Thank you so far.... I don't want to interrupt your own discussions. Continue, please. :)

Cute. I will try to remember these eye-contact tips. This way I can look like I am looking at them without really doing it. :)

Yes... being who you are is harder when what you are isn't something others are likely to warm to. I have watched some videos where people on the psychopathy spectrum are interviewed and although I am reluctant to draw parallels I think there are some, such as difficulty with empathy and experiencing feelings. Ironically I score very highly in standard tests for recognising emotions in others but for me the problem is when I see how somebody feels I have absolutely no idea how to respond and basically choose to ignore it or state it "I can tell you are feeling sad". How can you get along with people by being honest? Say "I like you. I just don't like your company". It isn't going to go down well, is it? :)

Also, being "likeable" it must be superficial because I have noticed I am not notified of work social events. Sometimes they will organise them right where I am standing without asking me to join them. Sometimes it pains me but then I remind myself I probably wouldn't enjoy those social events anyway, so why am I sad about it? Well, I suppose it would be nice to be socially desirable once in a while. 

It’s nice to know there are people similar to me in the world!

OMG - Are you my long lost twin?
I mean, we're the same age. We have similar experiences.

Here is Bees' how to fake eye contact life hacks.

Method one:
Look into their left eye (right hand side when seen from your perspective) if it gets too much look at anything really naturally eye catching so it looks like a natural distraction/admiration of art/architecture, etc. Animals and pets are great excuses to look at something else.

Method two:
Look at the space between their eyes, imagine someone drew a little kitten there with marker, look at the kitty. It's a cute meow meow kitty. No eyes here, only kitty.

That is a good distinction! It does depend on context. I think looking at others when they are talking it signals I am listening to them and also signals what they are telling me is important to me. it can feel confrontational when I am talking to them though. :)

Ha ha, yes. When they go off script and I don’t have a response I basically crash and stand there with a stupid look on my face. I hate that.

I have the same history as you with people at work - I am often described as friendly and likeable. But it’s superficial. I’ve realised rather late in life they people can’t make friends with my ever-shifting mask. I have to let them know the real me.

That’s not going well so far.

I find it easier to maintain eye contact on social rituals like hand-shaking where I know eye-contact is expected and beneficial to the ritual. It helps make it feel sincere. I visited a speech therapist in the hope she would help me engage with others in my speech patterns and she told me I often look at the wall or floor while talking when she wanted me to look her in the eye. I encouraged her to remind me because it was helpful.

I agree with what others have said about it feeling confrontational. I don't look at people because I think I might intimidate them. 

ahh i find that in myself too. i can appear to be staring into space but its that i dont see the current thing infront of me i see whatever is in my head visualising, often blind to whats infront of my face. kinda like daydreaming.

I find the scripts thing relatable. I believe I find it almost impossible to talk to people unless I am recalling something I have on a script I have memorised or something I already have well rehearsed. The problem with that is, when somebody says something to me or asks me a question which takes me off script  then knowing roughly what think I might say doesn't work for me. I need to walk away, think it over, and then when I have a rehearsed response I can then go back to them and say "Hey, you know we were having that conversation about.....", remind them of the topic and then read from the memorised script.

It basically makes social spontaneity impossible for me except for when one of scripted responses or jokes becomes appropriate to the circumstances. 

On making friends, I haven't made any friends for more than two decades. I can talk to people at work but it's usually technical or analytical discussion. Curiously, people say they have had some very interesting conversations with me. Some have described me as friendly and very rarely I am told I come over as if I make friends easily. I find all of this confusing as I know I am not very friendly and I don't make friends at all. It's strange to be told I am friendly by people who are not personal friends but acquaintances with whom I usually have superficial exchanges. Some even say I am funny but, again, I am not very funny so it's hard to take seriously. :)

You make an interesting point here about staring into space. This was something I discussed with the psychologists who assessed me.

We did an IQ test as part of the assessment and one of the things it revealed is that I am very much a visual thinker. The psychologist said this is very common with autistic people and the “staring” (or in my case looking into the distance with my eyes unfocused) is because I do all sorts of mental processing using my visual cortex.

The key thing is appropriate eye contact - too short or too little and you're not engaging / connecting with the other person. Too much, particularly too long and your starting to come across as freaky, Its a difficult balancing act.

I don't find eye contact difficult or uncomfortable - I do make eye contact, but not enough (as per my recent diagnosis report).
What I am aware of is that when I am really talking from the heart or from experience, I tend to stare into space as this enables me to focus on what I am talking about with minimal visual distractions. I do tend to briefly re-establish eye contact, but probably more as to try to maintain the other persons attention.

When I am meeting / greeting someone, I am always keen to engage in a nice firm handshake, but I really struggle to have eye contact at that early stage of the interaction.