Does anyone else hate the Linux analogy?

Debbie, you stepped over into that space that so many of us do of thinking that our opinions have special relevance and must be taken into account by those who do not share them. I've given you one of my rare downvotes for that. Not that it matters a fig in the real world ofc.

Peters opinions and conclusions far from being "neanderthal" are very carefully considered and sometimes very nuanced. He clearly is a type of basic "unmodified" man who like many of us is simply unable to see humans as fungible and interchangeable units, but unique and diverse individuals, and this colours his responses. That is not in harmony with the zeitgeist of our current society of course.

HE has offered his opinion to the O/P who wanted to know how to be more I-Phone, and knowing women well I suspect, he has kept it short and easy to implement. Whether it fits with your experience is simply irrelevant to the discussion, she just asked how to make herself more attractive, and that's what he told her!

Peter often saves me the time and trouble of posting, because he is way better at being clear in his choice of words than I am. 

Certainly not a "Neanderthal attribute.."

Look. All the decent answers had already been made. I had little else left but a small joke.

To explore your chosen Linux/android V iOS/I-phone metaphor, you miss the fact that BOTH have their fans, both have their advantages and drawbacks, and I, for one, avoid apple products like the plague. I consider the attraction superficial and expensive, and when I dipped my toe into I-players crucial functionality I rely on was missing.. 

It follows that I find superficial and artificially attractive women, are NOT to my taste, (except perhaps to observe from a safe distance) and I select accordingly from the small number of women who's innate honesty and high functioning gives them something to really respect and which I find deeply attractive. 

Of course someone who calls themselves "Dragster" and provides no "Bio" information may be one of the people who claims the political right of feminity rather than enjoys it intrinsically as a biological genetic female. In such a case, I am unqualified to answer "attractiveness" helpfully and can safely be ignored. 

HOWEVER: One issue that we both share is our dislike of being NeuroDiverse!!

But we are. And we have to either live with it, or face the consequences of choosing not to.

When (as most of us thankfully do), we choose to live with it, the next question is how do we get to ENJOY the process for a change?

YOU HAVE to get over that one, if you want to get into a sexual relationship that you can enjoy long term, because if you can't like yourself and excercise "give and take" with your own peccadillos, how do you expect to be able to cope with living with a mysterious stranger? A.K.A. If you don't find yourself lovable, how can you expect others to? (Discovering that you have lovable qualities is different to suffering from narcissism, where you know that you don't need to look!)

Failing that. Start collecting and incorporating real virtues in you life like grace, stoicism, compassion and Generosity of spirit.

It's not an easy task, I've been at it for decades and am still quite limited in my command of these and other real "silent virtues" but I have some and it does seemed to have made me considerably more "attractive" since I started..  

I guess everyone does have different personal experiences. Forgive me I don’t want to be presumptuous but I imagine you probably went to university in the late 80s early 90s? Pre ‘girl power’ shall we say? before it became more socially acceptable, even fashionable, for women to be very open and in your face about sexuality. I’m not sure your experience would necessarily hold up to the experience of students circa 2010.

and I’m not a Neanderthal. i’m far worse than that I’m a misanthrope. I think very very little of society or social norms and the more people seem to conform blindly to society from my point of view the more likely I am to think very very little of them.

my point being that I tend to reject social norms about both femininity and masculinity. I’m the kind of guy Who’d conscript women into the military (except that I’m opposed to conscription) and call it gender equality. The kind of guy that would force women’s refuge charities to open centre's for men And call that gender equality too.

I’m not a Neanderthal, I don’t desire at all to push men or women in to traditional gender roles. But I am offended by the hypocrisy of a society that decries traditional gender roles But then tries very hard to try and enforce a status quo with regards to gender roles.

Peter said:

ut they were the kind of girls to wear skimpy outfits and do over the top flirting.

Edit: I'm positive quite a few of them were autistic

I doubt that very much.

Nothing you say here resonates with my own experience of being a woman and to be honest, your attitude towards women sometimes comes across to me as rather Neanderthal.

Why should autistic women do that to please others? 

I'm not suggesting she should. She wants to feel more feminine. Making others view her as more feminine will make them treat her as being more feminine which will help her feel more feminine thus benefiting her. External affirmation is a powerful thing for ones mental well being.

And yes I am oversimplifying but it's largely true that if you look hot and girly and wear pretty dresses men will not care as much if you act like a tom boy. In fact some prefer this. That's my personal opinion based on my own subjective experience. I'm not saying its irrelevant how you act, and a lack of confidence / high anxiety is seen as negative in either sex, But if you spend an evening bending a mans ear about F1 racing or 70s vacuum tube electronics (if that's your special interest) he's not going to view you as less as of a girl if you're wearing a sexy dress and looking hot.

I've known a lot of hot nerdy girls. None of them ever had difficulty getting boys or had issues being seen as masculine. But they were the kind of girls to wear skimpy outfits and do over the top flirting.

Edit: I'm positive quite a few of them were autistic ... and I'm envious tbh. It's like they found the cheat code for autism.

I'm not especially bothered about the analogies- if I don't like them, I don't use them. But I do find it incredibly annoying when people assume autistic women are never feminine/feminine women can't be autistic. I'm not *conventionally* feminine but I do wear a very femme goth style and it's very odd to me that something as variable as appearance is associated with the way your brain is 'supposed' to work. I'm never surprised when 'girly' women are diagnosed very late.

I don't know if you've read Fern Brady's book Strong Female Character: you may find that some of her experiences align with your own.

Peter said:

if you want to affirm your femininity you can go a long way just with the way you dress, make up, hairstyling, The way you walk, things that can be studied learnt and taught. If you look like a supermodel no one will give a toss that you talk like a nerd.

Why should autistic women do that to please others? 

It's encouraging masking.

With regard to your last line, what you look like is only a part of attraction.

I think you are grossly over simplifying the situation for women.

I am friends with the 1st man I had a full intimate relationship with in my early 30s, and he told me recently that at the time he met me he was amazed I hadn't had a string of previous boyfriends, because of my looks.

However, now he says he understands why ie my autism (undiagnosed then).

Autism affects everything you are and everything you do, say and think.

No matter how attractive I was, the way I behaved was so different from other women that it alienated me from men on top of which my own responses to situations where I met men e.g. social anxiety, getting overwhelmed (I could go on and on) meant that any opportunities to be asked out tended to not come to fruition.

It's actually a very complicated question with a miriad different aspects to be analysed.

I could write a dissertation on this having got to 61 and with a wealth of knowledge and experience to look back on.

To misquote you: Even though I may have looked like a model, everyone cared: How I talked, behaved, thought, as someone very alien from what they were used to'....

Add onto that my own struggles with social interaction as a part of the autism.

Peter said:

One thing you’ve got going for you is that femininity and popularity as perceived by men has a hell of a lot more to do with your appearance and your body than your social skills.

Are you talking for all men there?

Once again, think that's incorrect.

Well assuming you’re female bodied One thing you’ve got going for you is that femininity and popularity as perceived by men has a hell of a lot more to do with your appearance and your body than your social skills.

if you want to affirm your femininity you can go a long way just with the way you dress, make up, hairstyling, The way you walk, things that can be studied learnt and taught. If you look like a supermodel no one will give a toss that you talk like a nerd.

No, 'coz I'm a bloke!

Yeah, I guess it helps that almost my entire extended family uses Android. And my old android phone is no longer functional as a daily driver, but all my iPhones are fine, except for my 2 iPhone 5's; they have "brain damage". 

Does that mean you need to be replaced every year or two? Just asking LoL.

At least you are not a Tesla who would turn into a fireball in a crash.

Hey, if the analogy works for you then own it

Thank you. 

I strongly prefer the ND = iPhone and NT = Android since iPhones tend to be more rigid/inflexible, and like to stick to one way of doing things, which relates to a lot of people with ASD, who tend to like to stick with one way of doing something because diverging from their way of doing things creates anxiety. That's why I insist ND's are iPhones.

Plus iPhones are prettier.

The Dragster said:

I want to be pretty and feminine.

Then be the prettiest you can be and the most feminie - doing it to conform to the ideas pushed by the media is a sure fire way to dissapoint yourself as they just want you to buy stuff from them to achieve whatever idea of beauty makes them most money.

I worked in fashion for about 10 years (my wife had her own brand of womenswear accessories) so I got to see it up close and personal - the industry is an ugly place selling unrealistic ideals just to make the companies rich.

Be authentic and through that as feminine and beautiful as you are - this will be picked up more than you may expect.

I see. The idea was that I want to be the Mac/iPhone, since they are prettier and more feminine, and I want to be pretty and feminine. 

And I agreed, I said don't hate the NTs for being wrong as they just don't really get it.

I said I hated the implications that neurodivergents are the inferior models.

The Dragster said:

hence my hatred for the idea that the NDs are the "inferior" models

Don't hate them for doing this - they are just not equipped with the brain potential we have.

Feel sorry for them as they will not experience the same intensity of sensation that we do (it can hurt sometimes), they can't process things as well as most of us and they will never have the cudos of being the delux model of humans.

Yeah, I'm just very vain, style conscious, and care a lot about my appearance and social status, hence my hatred for the implication that the NDs are the "inferior" models, combined with my denial of having ASD.

The Dragster said:

Does anyone else feel this way?

You seem quite passionate about the analogies, but they are imperfect because the two are not similar enough.

We have physically the same bodies but our minds work differently. So considering the sleekness of Apple and Microsoft / Samsung etc devices is not relevant.

It is more like a black labrador having a litter of puppies, most of which are black but there is one golden labrador.

Think of us more as we have experiencing super powers in our brains but these come at a price where we don't really fit into society the same as others.

You can deny your superpowers or embrace them - but in embracing them you can feel as powerful, confident and sexy as you want to - this is all in the mind.

As for being pretty - give me a beautiful mind any day of the week. The appearance is irrelevant in the long run as age will take physical beauty from you and if you have no inner beauty left, what remains will be pretty uninteresting to yourself or anyone else.