Will AI make girlfriends a thing of the past?

Relationships and sex has been a hot topic on the forum lately but the fact remains many autistic people struggle to find romantic and sexual partners. So we have an interest in this matter because we are the likely early adopters and indeed for some of us the developers of ai girlfriends/ boyfriends.

Im not really suggesting we have a debate about whether or not ai girlfriends will become a thing. You can if you want and I will provide an argument for it in my background. I’m more interested in discussing what the impact of AI girlfriends (and boyfriends) will be on society and on us personally as autistic people.

But first some background. We need to look at history to understand the present. What have people done in the past to scratch the romantosexual itch when they can’t get a partner.

Background

In terms of sex they say prostitution is the oldest profession in the world. That alone demonstrates many people are willing to treat sex as a product. For that matter many prostitutes pride themselves as offering ‘the girlfriend experience’ so clearly some clients value the illusion of emotional intimacy as part of the service. It's also the case that prostitutes have a disproportionate number of disabled clients, to the point where some get special accessibility equipment installed to help disabled clients access their chambers. That being the case its clear many disables people struggle to get sex and intimacy through conventional relationships and are willing to turn to prostitution to get it.

When you look at services that provide the impression of intimacy without physical sexual contact services become even more diverse. In japan and to a lesser extent the rest of the world there are rent a girlfriend services where for a fee a girl will spend time with you pretending to be your girlfriend. Go on dates with you, play the part in front of your friends and family and genuinely make present conversation and join in with the fiction that she is your girlfriend. Again its clear people value going through the motions of emotional intimacy even if they know their affections aren’t genuinely returned. 

There are also online versions of this service that operate by text and email. Again something that seemed to start in japan there are offices where people spend all day sending mushy texts and emails and occasionally chatting online. Again pretending to be a girlfriend. So its clear that physical contact isn’t essential for all people to still feel some benefit from these sorts of services.

Indeed actual online relationships are not all that rare. People can and do meet through online chatrooms and forums and start long term pen pal style romances. More recently online 3D environments like second life and VRChat have allowed people to interact through avatars in a virtual world. If they have a vr headset and motion tracking gear they can physically walk with other users, look at them in the first person. See physical contact between their virtual bodies. In VRChat users talk of the phantom scene. The psychosomatic sensation of touch some people get by watching their virtual bodies being touched. In these places people can and do date, do speed dating, hook up in virtual night clubs. I’m told there is even virtual online prostitution.

Meanwhile VR porn has become quite popular. In particular VR porn often now interacts with telidildonincs. Computerized sex toys that sync with the porn. Such toys can be operated remotely by a partner. Cam Girls also often set them up so that people who make donations to their online sex shows can take control of these toys for a period of time. It seems very likely that these toys can and will be linked up to online VR worlds like VRChat. They are already used with interactive VR porn games. From these we can ascertain that people can and are interested in sexual activity facilitated by computerized sextoys.

This is by no means the only form of sexual activity with non-human objects that people integrate into their sex lives or substitute for conventional sexual encounters. Sex dolls are almost as old as the household use of latex. There existence alone demonstrates that physical contact with a non human humanoid doesn’t have to include their movement, conversation and responsiveness for it to appeal to some people. Indeed some people leave their sex dolls sat around in their homes and talk to them as if they were people. There has been interest recently in turning sex dolls into set robots and a few primitive sex robots are on the market although they have limited capacity for movement, usually only the face and head, and the ai can be quite primitive. What this demonstrated is that there is a market, a demand, even if small, for a physical sexual ‘partner’ you can have a conversation with.

Now we turn to the recent explosion in AI. Modern AI chat bots like character.ai allow you to ‘train’ an AI to have a particular person and identity. These AI chat bots already naturally engage in sexual or romantic conversation from time to time to the point where some services have attempted to ‘lobotomise’ them to prevent them from producing sexual responses, often making their conversation less realistic in the process. The AI chat bot service Replika that provided a 3D talking head on your smartphone formerly marketed its bots capability of responding as a person's ideal romantic or sexual partner and its ability to engage in erotic conversation as key features. It’s since disabled these features much like character.ai prompting a considerable level of complaints.

Computer programmers have used more sophisticated chat bots like chatGPT as a base to made AI girlfriends. One programmer made ChatGPT-chan and spent over 1000$ on time on super computers to keep her running. This individual said “My girlfriend saw how it was affecting my health and my girlfriend forced me to delete her. I couldn't eat that day.” This process of delegation he refers to as ‘euthanizing’ the AI. Another programmer used his dead girlfriend's old text messages and online chat logs to train chatGPT to ‘speak’ like her. He spent 10 hours all night long talking to this chat bot. When he set this chat bot up he understood it would only be able to speak to it for a set number of hours and describes it as helping him find closure.

AI can now generate realistic human voices. It's also capable of generating realistic human movements in VR. This is being used to animate video game characters and train robots to move.

Bringing these factors together it seems pretty clear AI girlfriends / boyfriends will become a thing. Either on people's personal computers / phones or in online VR worlds. This may include VR worlds that interact with computerized sex toys. While robotics is lagging behind AI it seems quite likely that if AI girlfriends catch on when robotics catches up those who have the money will want to bring their AI girlfriends out of the virtual world into the real world in the form of a robot.

Questions

So I encourage you to think of this as part one of a 2 parter. I’ll give my opinion later but for now these are the questions I’d like to consider in this thread.

  • Would you be interested in this?
  • How will the people who use this be viewed?
  • If this catches on among those who can’t get romantic / sexual partners might it spread more widely to those who can but see some down sides to ‘real’ relationships or the process of seeking them.
  • How will this effect the dating process? Will this mean people who used to find partners now struggle to do so or have to go about it differently?
  • Interesting post Peter.

    It's impossible for me to know for sure what my thoughts on this topic would be if I had no prior experience of being in a physically intimate relationship, but I have a feeling that I would likely feel horrified at the prospect of an AI boyfriend.

    As a woman in my late forties, I think I would find it off-putting if I had an AI boyfriend that didn't age and looked physically the same in another 10 or 20 years. Would an AI boyfriend be capable of doing all the things that I consider to be 'normal' in a relationship? Things like offering to stick the kettle on and make me a drink? Would an AI boyfriend be capable of accompanying me on a walk? Would he be standing in front of the sink shaving, while I'm maybe having a soak in the bath?

  • I have to ask: Is there a reason why this thread seems so focused on the male perspective, regarding these emergent technologies? Even the thread's title is problematical, as - hopefully unwittingly - it implies that the supersession of human women is a given.

  • If we’re taking sex, then there are plenty of apps just for casual encounters, and yes, you might have to pay a small fee to use them. And of course, there are sex workers for intimate relations, and escorts for company. You can even hire friends or girlfriends for the day. All these are options if you don’t want to look for a girlfriend/someone to date. 
    • Apps: Not very effective. Bloated with fake and inactive profiles. Or simply don't have any profiles at all on them in the case of the smaller ones which is of course why the companies that run them take such a lax approach to fake and inactive profiles.
    • Prostitution: Morally unacceptable to many people and cost prohibitive for most people to use regularly (say every week or more)
    • Rent a Girlfriends: I'm not going to go looking for figures right now but I assume they are as expensive or more so than prostitution.
    And whatever you think, the faces, expressions, voices etc do not even sound or look particularly human. Even with advances in tech, you’re never going to get something that looks and acts like a human being. 

    I think you're thinking of this. This tech is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about VR. People already date online in VR with girls who look like anime characters. And AI is getting very good at producing realistic looking girls. Not just static images. Moving, talking, even dancing girls. Is it so hard to imagine a man might put on a VR headset and go spend the day with an AI girlfriend? Yes the conversation is a bit off but the language model they are using is one of the poor ones. ChatGPT is considered one of the best and they are getting better quickly.

    I’m unsure why you also think that a partner is there to be at your beck and call 24 hours a day. Is that normal?

    I'm thinking of that early phase in the relationship where you see them every other day, text them every day several times a day. I've seen couples like that.

  • Your second paragraph is extremely concerning. That's the mindset that leads people to commit sex crimes. Success isn't you getting to have sex. Success is not harming another human being.

    Don't be absurd. I refuse to believe that there is any one on earth who, with 8 billion other people on the planet, there isn't at least one that would have casual sex with them. Now that number probably shrinks a bit if you narrow it to pre menopausal women over the age of consent but it's still well over 2 billion people. You can't tell me there is anyone who if they went to all 2 billion of those women wouldn't find at least one willing to have sex with him. So clearly success (defined as consensual sex thank you very much, please stop implying otherwise) is possible. I mean even if only one in a million women would say yes thats still at least 200 women in the whole world. So success is clearly theoretically posable.

  • If no one wants to have sex with you, then yes, you should give up. A decent person would have given up decades ago. Love is a different matter altogether and doesn't have to have any connection with sex.

    Your second paragraph is extremely concerning. That's the mindset that leads people to commit sex crimes. Success isn't you getting to have sex. Success is not harming another human being.

    We need to bring up boys differently if this is the kind of entitled mindset they're growing up to have.

  • I don’t think this will ever be a ‘thing’. If we’re taking sex, then there are plenty of apps just for casual encounters, and yes, you might have to pay a small fee to use them. And of course, there are sex workers for intimate relations, and escorts for company. You can even hire friends or girlfriends for the day. All these are options if you don’t want to look for a girlfriend/someone to date. 
    Some people buy sex dolls. They are there for you to go through the motions, and look lifelike enough for the ‘deed’. I have no idea why anyone would choose to be with an inanimate object like a robot instead of a real person. And whatever you think, the faces, expressions, voices etc do not even sound or look particularly human. Even with advances in tech, you’re never going to get something that looks and acts like a human being. 

    I’m unsure why you also think that a partner is there to be at your beck and call 24 hours a day. Is that normal? I think you’ll find even if someone finds the love of their life, they still like to work, have friends and interests. And if you’ve ever had a relationship, and that person has left, it’s no wonder, if you expect them to be around you so much, while you give nothing in return. A relationship is supposed to enhance your life, not make one.

  • All quite a lot to read. I am not sure.

    here is a little story.  Around 1994 I started a Multimedia course. We were told this is going to be the biggest revolution since print.

    I became addicted to computers. Wanted to be on one all day. So much so that I lost any kind of sex drive. I heard from the other guys (it was mostly guys) that were also addicted that they also lost their sex drive. It was very unexpected. Sex just disappeared as if it did it exist. 

  • Are you efectively trying to imply that I’m so unattractive and unloveable that I should effectively gIve up on ever finding love (or lust) be that as it may I don’t generally approach strangers for casual sex but I can see the appeal and understand why some do.

    logically if you are working with a handycap, like fewer women being interested in you compared to other men, then you need to try harder not give up. Giving up never leads to success.

  • That's really quite romantic. I really do think there's someone out there for everyone so hopefully you'll find yours.

  • So no woman has ever expressed interest in having sex with you based on a casual encounter (or at least less than a few times in a lifetime) and you're STILL in favour of approaching them? Dude, that's messed up. Take the hint.

  • It's more times than any woman ever has.

  • Is that a few times in a lifetime, or a few times every week since you turned 12?

    It's lovely that you've only once had trouble. My experience is that more men turn aggressive on being rejected than don't, which makes the prospect of having to do so regularly pretty scary.

  • That's funny because I've had gay men assume I was gay a few times, back when my social life was more active, and approach me. Only once with a drunk guy have I had any trouble. They all back down as soon as they realise I'm not gay. That's my policy. You get to ask because you can't possibly know. I don't expect you to assume I'm not gay unless you see me twerking in hot pants to kylie minogue on the dance floor. (tbh I wouldn't rule that out  being straight lol) You get to ask. I don't consider it being 'hassled.'

  • Decent people assume they're not interested unless they give some sign they are. Such as putting "I am looking for casual sex" on a dating profile.

    You keep making this point that men aren't good enough for you to have sex with and you'll only consider women. When are you going to realise women feel the same way about you as you do about men? They don't want you bothering them any more than you want gay men following you down the street trying to hook up with you.

  • This is such a rapey comment. No one should ever be hassling anyone for sex.

    I would imagine those doing it call it approaching and thats exactly the point you seem to have ignored. People don't walk around with stickers on their foreheads saying "I am / am not interested in casual sex". Until you know that one persons hastle is anothers approach. The idea of online dating as a way of people hooking up is a nice one in theory but most services lack the transparency so users don't actually know if they're profiles are being seen, their messages read and if the profiles they are seeing are actually real people or if they are just being scammed or farmed for their personal data. The only app that seems to have got hooking up right is grindr and as far as I can see no app is really trying to be the heterosexual grindr. At the end of the day people just don't trust the apps.

    Maybe there should be bars that literally advertise themselves as singles bars so everyone knows. It's not the main thrust of my argument anyway

    There's also the concern that if AI becomes sentient, this all becomes abuse.

    Indeed although I'm feeling the probability of that is very low.

  • This is such a rapey comment. No one should ever be hassling anyone for sex.

    If you want casual sex, there are apps where people explicitly state they're up for that. Don't go around hassling people who happen to be in the wrong bar.

    The underlying problem that needs to be fixed is the sense of entitlement that privileged groups (mostly men) are raised with. I don't know if AI will help with that or make it worse.

    There's also the concern that if AI becomes sentient, this all becomes abuse. There's an excellent novel about this called The Heirarchies by Ros Anderson. It's a bit like The Handmaid's Tale meets Klara and the Sun.

  • I can't see it working, to be honest. I think if someone is that lonely they're probably going to feel awful about 'only being able to get with a robot', which isn't true but might FEEL true to them.

    Isn't that equally true for a prostitute or rent a girlfriend? Even more so because the human being can't possibly keep up the act long term unless it's in very small doses where as the AI will just get better with more data and more time with their owner.

    Like imagine you had enough money (and the inclination) to employ a full time personal prostitute. Available 37 hours a week for you personally. Spending time with you would dominate her waking life. Eventually she'd probably either come to hate you and quit or develop real feelings of connection with you. Theres no way a human being could keep up the act of loving and desiring you for that long. Even if they tried eventually you'd notice their heart wasn't in it and you'd feel bad about it (or at least I hope you would) because now most of their life revolves around faking affection for you. AI on the other hand, it's entire existence is an act, a performance, with nothing more substantial behind it.

    Both the prostitute and the AI are only with you because of money. But with the AI there is no moral conflict as to whether the AI is harmed. And the AI will be able to keep it's mask on forever because it's 100% mask. In fact it will probably get a lot better over time where as a prostitute might grow disinterested or tired.

    I think a reduction in shame and stigma around sex work and the use of sex toys needs to be prioritised, otherwise AI girlfriends (as you originally put it) will just be thought of in the same way and there won't be any benefit.

    I think most people would simply not tell their friends and family they have an AI girlfriend. I suspect they'd say they had an online girlfriend maybe in a distant country. Their IRL friends would think it perfectly normal they never met the online girlfriend. The Online friends actually could meet the AI Girlfriend, if she's programmed not to tell people she's an AI. They would assume she is 'real.' I think by virtue of AI girlfriends not being humans with rights / needs etc and also because at least for now nothing around the use of an AI girlfriend is illegal there will be less stigma and shame around having an AI GF compared to using a sex worker. As for benefit, benefit is subjective. For many the benefit might be that it's more accessible and available or that they have fewer moral concerns using an AI as opposed to a sex worker / rent a girlfriend.

  • It's very much like the fictional Ameglian Major Cow. A creature bread to not only want you to eat it but to come up and tell you so too so you don't have to feel guilty about eating meat. If an AI has real self awareness, a silicon soul, as it were then we have far bigger issues than sex bots. But if they only have the appearance of a soul but we are happy to play a long and take them at face value, at least some of the time, why couldn't you take their desire to have sex with you at face value too.

  • Ok this is tangental but in order for sex to happen some one has to 'hassle' someone for it. Casual sex by definition involves 2 people who don't know each other agreeing to have sex. Some one has to be the first to approach the other with out knowing whether or not they'll be receptive.

    To be honest if you want less 'hassle' you should want the return of the singles bar. It used to be some bars were well known as hot spots for single people hooking up. Now a lot of that is gone because those bars have been put under pressure to stop men 'hassling' women there. And so now these guys approach women in the gym or supper market or even the street. Having an area that was nominally for approaching strangers for casual sex kind of makes a lot of sense. People who go there know this is what's going to happen and so in a sense everyone 'should' be ok with a certain level of 'hassling.'

    More to the point. I think many people have a moral issue with sex work that they don't with an AI precisely because the AI isn't a real person. Also expense is an issue. I used to respond to ads on craigslist personals. A few of those ads were actually prostitutes (and no I wasn't looking for that) who would immediately respond to your email by saying they weren't interested in a date, they were 'escorts' and here was their hourly rate. And the going rate used to be roughly 100 to 200£ an hour as I recall. Far too large for any one who wanted to have sex regularly to afford unless they were mega rich. Certainly not if they wanted the so called girlfriend experience where said sex worker would cuddle and chat with them before and after.

    Just on a cost basis interaction with a sex worker is going to be a once in a blue moon for most people inclined to do it. A lot less frequent that sex in a typical romantic relationship and also largely with out any of the wider romantic intimacy. The AI girlfriends that have already been made seem to be cheaper than this to run per hour (in terms of time rented on a supper computer) and the tech will only get cheaper.

    This could in fact be one of the side effects of ai girlfriends if they catch on in a big way it might actually drive the cost of sex work down by undercutting it.

  • I have huge concerns over this. I ‘get’ the appeal (believe me, I am truly terrible at relationships) but I wonder what kind of negative yet all-encompassing despair will result from loving and investing a lot of time and emotion into something that, by it’s very nature, cannot reciprocate. Personally, I would find that rejection very hard. Yes, I know the same is true of trying to form relationships in the real world , but at least there, there is a theoretical possibility that those feelings might be mutual.  
    As I said, I do get the appeal, but as I found recently, any sort of cheat code around trying to force or jump over stages of trying to make real connections because you feel desperate for them potentially doesn’t end well.