Can't See The Forest For The Trees (Bottom-Up Thinking)

I'm actually probably going to leave the attention one and not complete it. Some of it isn't well put together and some of it just doesn't sit right with me. It seems to be aimed at neurotypical school teachers and aimed very much at what children shouldn't be doing or can't do and how to change this. (Although I am aware teachers have a job to do). It seemed to be a lot about "atypical attention shows in autism" and heres what it looks like in behaviour but no other info. Nothing about the internal processes. I think anxiety can account for a lot of atypical attention! And I do wonder how much "difficulties with attention" are exacerbated by exposure to modern technology in childrens' developing brains across all types of brain wiring.

I think the final straw was "here's the medical model now discuss how you think the traits affect attention" with no further input from the course creators.  The discussion contributions were quite simplistic. That and a brain scan which showed "normal" and "autistic". Im not saying I "know it all" but feel I already have a greater understanding of attention in my own autism because I have got to grips with understanding executive function/inertia/bottom up thinking/monotropism. 

 I'm sure it has good intentions but I won't be continuing!

One interesting thing I found out in the discussions was about Bionic reading. Where some of the text is in bold. It's said it can maybe help focus when reading (aimed more at dyslexia and adhd really). My adhd friend have it a go and said there's probably some potential in it.

On the Kent one, I think I did a case study on both because I was enjoying it so much. The boy was very different to me and I wanted to stretch myself a bit.

Unknown said:

Yes I did that one too, I thought it was really good and I liked the case study too. What I liked was how it made me think about others experiences of autism, as I've only got my own to go on and people struggle with different areas.

Yes it’s good to learn about other autistic experiences as our community is so diverse! I am glad you enjoyed it, it’s good to know that some courses about us are actually endorsed by our own community. Which case study did you choose to analyse? I chose to write about the autistic teenage girl.

Unknown said:

I found the explanations quite simplistic and a bit "deficit based" but I put that to one side

This is exactly what I thought when I researched the attention course, it seems very much based on the medical model, and understanding the subject of autism as opposed to actual autistic lived experiences.

Unknown said:

I dont think it includes monotropism. I get the feeling that is a very new concept, not necessarily scientifically researched much and maybe not known much outside of autism circles. I think it will cover aspects of this but using different language. I'll post any revelations should they happen.

You are right, monotropism is not a new theory the first paper on the subject was published in 2005, but not much is known about it outside of the autistic community. I look forward to hearing about your revelations!

Yes I did that one too, I thought it was really good and I liked the case study too. What I liked was how it made me think about others experiences of autism, as I've only got my own to go on and people struggle with different areas. Also how autism and learning difficulties are two different things and can occur together or separately.  I liked how research and videos of Milton were included as it supports the idea of more autistic people being involved in and leading research.

The one I'm doing now about attention, the first bit was an introduction of what autism is. We have to remember these courses are for autistic and allistic alike. I found the explanations quite simplistic and a bit "deficit based" but I put that to one side. If people doing the course don't know about autism, they have to start from somewhere and it cant be overly complicated and get into politics too much.

I dont think it includes monotropism. I get the feeling that is a very new concept, not necessarily scientifically researched much and maybe not known much outside of autism circles. I think it will cover aspects of this but using different language. I'll post any revelations should they happen.

I really like FutureLearn, I liked parts of the course on autistic experience because it included autistic academics and advocates such as Damian Milton. There were other parts that could have been improved/were not accurate though. I think the one I am talking about is the same one you have completed by the University of Kent. What was your favourite part of the University of Kent autism course? I liked the case study part.

I also tried the Understanding ADHD course but didn’t like it because it was very pathologising and unnecessarily medicalised.

The course on attention in autistic/ADHD/dyslexic people sounds really interesting! Does it include the theory of monotropism? Hope you continue to enjoy it! 

Thanks for the recommendation!

Thank you! I definitely want to look into those

You are very welcome!

There are some short courses on Futurelearn which I've found really helpful. It's sort of "accessible academia" and you can engage with others in discussions as well as do tasks so theyre quite interactive.  The one by the University of Kent has been really useful and I'm part way through one with the Uni of Birmingham about attention in autism/adhd/dyslexic individuals. They are free for a limited number of weeks. Theyre sort of a "next step" past reading blogs etc. because they delve into the science but are understandable to the every day person.  

Pikl said:

Fighting a belief set by my parents that requiring help, especially mentally is something very negative. It's hard to reprogram.

VERY hard....but VERY worth it Pikl !     "Needs must" = as my parents also told me repeatedly !!

It's good to know I'm not bonkers. I'm still learning what is autism and what is just other stuff.

I'm so glad you're accepting the contradictions and also that help is sometimes required. I'm still working on that. Fighting a belief set by my parents that requiring help, especially mentally is something very negative. It's hard to reprogram.

I saw a quote once which said we find the difficult things easy and find the easy things difficult.

I think something is clicking within. Instead of wondering what the hell is going on with my contradictions, to accept that that's how things are. And accepting that sometimes I do need a bit of help along the way and that is perfectly fine.

thanks mate.  Glad I've off-loaded throughout this thread.....no more bounce required.

Luftmentsch - I hear you.

If you only venture a few feet down the rabbit holes, it is scary and confusing.  I do have more than enough "trite" behaviours and traits to "pretend" to be autistic if I wanted to.  The trouble is, I also have more than enough "trite" behaviours and traits to "pretend" to be a frigging psycho too !......or BPD......or multiple personality disorder....or paranoid schizo.....or bi-polar etc etc etc.

Moreover, it could be a brain injury - either impact or infection based.

Luftmentsch said:

so what is the basis for that assertion?

......the only way I could answer this question, was to do a REALLY, REALLY deep dive on pretty much everything, all at the same time.  It consumed my life and gobbled financial and time resources that I did not have to spare......but I could not go on without knowing my truth.

.....and when I did see the truth about me - there was NO DOUBT - it was a lightening bolt of realisation.  It was deeply and profoundly emotional.  I still have minor wobbles here and there, but in essence, the MORE I have looked, the MORE reassurance I have found.

Don't be scared Luftmentsch = my advice.  Look hard, and look deep.

Best regards

Number.

Appropriately awesome links, Ausome.  Thank you for sharing.

DeSpereaux said:

I mainly just use it to inform my own-experiences.

Me too.  I'm very selfish in my learning on this type of stuff.  I'm not doing it to learn about autism per se - I'm doing it to try and help understand myself.

Pikl - this is the thing that I am currently engaged with ie active investigation and testing.

H E A L T H W A R N I N G - Some of this is probably pretty dumb for all manner of reasons.  I'm not advocating that anyone else should try this stuff, I am merely reporting what I have been looking at / playing with.

Pikl said:

Have you found anything that helps you? 

1.  Music.

Different types, different volumes, different beats, different principal instruments, different moods.

2.  Breathing

Paying attention, ignoring, being mindful, hyper ventilating, holding, speed and duration of intake or exhale.

3.  Forward motion

Speed, mode of transport, visual and auditory input during, distance, duration, setting.

4.  Sleep

Deprivation, excess, different settings, different times, different durations.

Added to that mix, up until 7 months ago, was booze.  I can now, definitely say, that from my perspective, booze worked VERY effectively as a spam filter for me.  However, I can also say that bleach probably does clean your insides too - but that most certainly does not make it a sensible thing to do - my booze consumption falls under this same logic.

At this point in my journey of self-exploration, I am coming to the conclusion that "what works" not only depends on the individual - but also on which way the flipping wind is blowing !!  All of the above list and their sub-parts - in various combinations - at various times - have proved useful to me.

To be perfectly honest, however, I am finding that "unhealthy" and "unnatural" sleep deprivation is enabling me to find a place of calm, focus and concentration most reliably.  However, I need to waste 24 hours to approach this sacred spot of circa 25-35 hours awake when I seem to hit optimal thought and focus performance....and then effectively waste a further 12-16 hours lost in VERY deep sleep.

Like I say - don't try this at home folks (and Pikl)......although we are a like in many ways.....I tend to feel that I really am a very peculiar snowflake!

Pikl - this is the thing that tore my brain to shreds for at least a decade.  The reality of my unabashed incompetence....in conjunction with my apparent "gifts" for certain aspects of life.

So.....things started to get clearer for me when I realised that many things that I find unbelievably self-evident and simple......some people just CANNOT see - even when it is explained to them.  I thought they were being 'ironic' or 'teasing me' when they would dismiss my explanations and clarifications.  It turns out  that.....ALL people are super dumb !

My flavour of "super dumb" is the stuff that the VAST majority of folk find relatively simple.

The flavour of "super dumb" for the majority of folk is the stuff that I find relatively (or especially) simple.

When I reach this point of understanding - I became significantly calmer in myself.

You write so excellently.  Thank you so much.  You have explained my lived experience in your writing above.  Moreover, I can also wholly understand and agree with the other posters who politely scream "contradiction" at the principles you explain.  I know you are correct with your words above, and also know "the other posters" are right with their queries.

I am a massive tangle of contradiction and confusion.

Those who look at me from the outside AND me looking at myself from the inside - have no choice other than to conclude that my being is INEXPLICABLE NONSENSE.

Juniper - you have elucidated that inexplicable nonsense - with aplomb.

With sincere thanks.

Number.

pogo, pogo, pogo, pogo, pogo, pogo

Bounce.

It's been a hot 3 hours so I'll bump it again for you.