Published on 12, July, 2020
Hi, I've found this forum as I have been desperately searching for help this afternoon following a difficult hour and a half tribunal hearing over the phone. Please note - I DO NOT find it comfortable to speak on the phone so did ask for a paper hearing which was adjourned in December and the tribunal recommended me to opt for a telephone hearing instead.
Background - I have struggled my whole life, my mental health became so poor in 2018 that it was effecting my daily life so I finally went to my GP to ask for help. I was diagnosed with anxiety and depression and prescribed antidepressants and CBT.
I also had a diagnosis of Crohn's Disease and Fybromyalgia at this point. I then made my first application for PIP. This was rejected.
After trying 5 different antidepressants which didn't help and my mental health getting progressively worse I was finally referred for an autism assessment. I received my diagnosis in 2022 and a few months later also received my adhd diagnosis. Now I know why life has always been difficult for me.
Whilst waiting for my autism assessment in August 2021 I reapplied for a new PIP claim which was again rejected. Feeling strongly about this I asked for a mandatory reconsideration wii j was also rejected. Having by then having my diagnoses confirmed I applied to appeal the decision at a tribunal.
This whole process has took 19 months and been the most stressful time of my life. As I mentioned there was a paper tribunal hearing in December 2022 but that was adjourned and the panel recommended I opt for a telephone hearing and they also requested my full medical records from 2020 (which had never been requested before).
I sent all of this in and having chased weekly for a new date today has been the telephone hearing. The tribunal's decision was to agree with the decision of the DWP and I am heartbroken.
I don't know where to go from here, I have no support, I feel like whilst the panel sounds like they're listening and understanding they really don't otherwise how could they reject my claim?
Can anyone help with regards to taking this further? And how I could put a better case forward? I feel so strongly that I deserve this benefit but the difficulties I have in daily life are just not being taken seriously
It is disgusting! We don't ask to be born. We are brought into this sick world without our permission, we have to beg for help and are made to feel bad for doing so. If they don't want to help us then they should offer us euthanasia. This is happening for people with Asperger's in the Netherlands and in Belgium.
Please can you help me? Thanks.
I quite agree with this Peter - although not in this position, I quite agree with everything that you have said, even though I’ve not been in the position where I need PIP at my age, but I do think that the entire system requires fundamental changes to legislation because it is utterly devoid of basic humanity and compassion - it clearly demonstrates that outdated attitudes and misconceptions about autism do need to change at a fundamental level - I have said many times on previous threads that with an elderly autistic population with many of us being diagnosed later in life, we are all going to face serious problems as we get older in the next few years - from reading through the thread I find the arrogant attitudes of DWP officials and even at tribunal level utterly repulsive, revolting and disgusting, as they clearly refuse to understand any of the issues that many autistic people face
Did you get PIP in the end? Because I may be able to help. My DiL just had full mobility and standard daily living taken off her. She went from that to zero points and a tribunal. The document I wrote as her supporting evidence for the tribunal was so good that they called her and told her she didn’t have to go to tribunal because the supporting evidence was so good they knew they wouldn’t win.
Unlike other responses saying “high functioning “ autism doesn’t qualify. It does. Just because you’re good at research it doesn’t mean you’re good in social situations or driving from a to b without a melt down.
I know this is a late response, but that’s not quite true. I have an autoimmune condition as well as autism. I can no longer grate my own cheese or chop my vegetables. I have to buy grated cheese and pre cut veg. It costs more. PIP helps to cover that cost.
Autism means I struggle to park my car when spaces are few. PIP and a blue badge mean I have easier access to parking or the ability to pay for a taxi when I know I can’t park (at the hospital for example).
It is about independence, and the supporting of, not about paying for an actual person to care for you.
I mean pip is completely misnamed. They used to call it disability living allowance which is closer to it. It’s for things you need to stay alive that non disabled people wouldn’t need. It’s not about independence it’s about paying for the time of the people you are dependent on just to stay alive.
it’s not really about including disabled people in society it’s about making sure their basic bodily functions are taken care of. It’s an independence payment in the same sense that universal credit is universal. That is to say not at all. Independence may just occasionally be a side effect of the payment.
Unfortunately it's a fact of life that these discretionary awards such as PIP don't go to the people who need them most, but to the people who make the best case for needing them. Again unfortunately, people on the spectrum are often poor communicators.
The thing about the pip system is it’s built on a points system. That’s not just DWP polocy it’s actually written into the law. I did a breakdown of the system and why it was unfair months ago. I’m going to copy paste it bellow
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Well I doubt any high functioning autistic person could claim pip unless they had other issues as well. lets run though the criteria.
1 – Preparing food
Can the person make pancakes or beans on toast. Not necessarily do they but could they if they were shown how. Would they be safe left with the contents of a fridge, knife draw and cooker. Could they crack an egg, pour in some flour and milk, mix it then tip it in a frying pan without cutting or burning themselves? would what came out be safe to eat? then they score 0 points.
2 – Taking nutrition
Can the person eat a meal with out being prompted or supervised. If they're left unattended but provided with suitable food will they eat at least once a day with out assistance? if so 0 points.
3 – Managing therapy or monitoring a health condition
Can the person take pills / injections when their doctor says they should. Do things like monitor their blood sugar, use an oxygen mask. Can they do it safely on their own without help? 0 points.
4 – Washing and bathing
Can the person use ordinary unadapted baths and showers to wash without special tools? Do they have the cognative capacity to remember bathing they should do and the energy to do it? 0 points
5 – Managing toilet needs or incontinence
Assuming they're not incontinent. Can the person take a pee, sit on the toilet, take a dump, wipe their bum and stand up, without help or special tools? 0 points.
6 – Dressing and undressing
Can the person take off and put on clothing normaly with out help or special adapted clothing? 0 points
7 – Communicating verbally
A non verbal autistic person is probably going to score 12 points here. a verbal autistic person of normal intelligence is likely to score 0. because the intermediate gradings only discuss the ability to form simple or complex sentences aided or unaided not the ability to make those sentences socially appropriate.
8 – Reading and understanding signs, symbols and words
Can the person read and understand a book (even if they need glasses), even if the book has big words in? 0 points.
9 – Engaging with other people face to face
Theoretically an autistic person could score a maximum of 8 points here if they either can't interact with most people at all with out having a panic attack or their behaviour is so eratic that others are actually afraid of them. However if they are confident to go out an ineract with people with out help, even if they keep causing others offence it's more likely to be 0 points.
10 – Making budgeting decisions
Can the person keep track of their bills? Do they know what they have left over to spend and how long it needs to last. 0 points.
So realistically high functioning autism alone can get you 20 points if you're non verbal and are likely to have a panic attack every time some one talks to you but more likely you'll get 0 points if you're verbal and just horribly awkward or bad at social situations. The threshold for basic support is 8 points and 12 for enhanced support. So autistic people who are 100% non verbal are likely to get enhanced support off the bat. Verbal autistic people with social anxiety so bad they have panic attacks when people talk to them, or social skills so bad other literally fear them most of the time may get basic support. Everyone else can go whistle they get nothing.
Thank you I'm looking in to that now
I’m sorry that you feel this way, please try to see the forest for the trees and take an objective view, the welfare state is designed to minimise the burden of the state. The only way to get through is either through their hoops or to point out legitimate admin error or exception.It’s a bureaucratic process, a red tape operation and something that cannot be taken on a whim-and-a-prayer, so yes I do think that you should seek an advocate for this one.:)
Yes they are, I don't have anyone. Maybe I could try my local citizens advice now, I really thought that after everything they have on my background and diagnoses etc they would see how things are a struggle for me. It's very disappointing.
Sometimes I think, that people can have a hard time seeing that a disability, can be more than just a mobility issue. You need to have a confident advocate, to state that your psychological and neurological issues are a hinderance to your independence. Though I can appreciate that they are hard to come by..
Is it not possible to have an advocate, like a Citizens Advice Representative, join the call with you?
It's just so overwhelming. I know that some people do win this fight and I really want to continue with my appeal but I just don't know how to make them understand or take my conditions and the effect they have on my life seriously. I won't be able to eat today at all because I am so upset, my brain is scrambled, the outcome has ruined my positivity and I am back in a very anxious place that I haven't been for a while.
you can actually read that checklist here www.gov.uk/.../pip-handbook
and particularly here https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1092461/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-assessment-criteria.pdf
NAS85289 said:I feel like whilst the panel sounds like they're listening and understanding they really don't otherwise how could they reject my claim?
Because the criteria they're legally obliged to use are irrational. The DWP applies a check list compiled by heartless bureaucrats to judge your claim and all the panel is doing is checking the DWP has applied the checklist correctly.