Forum changing

It seems to me like the autism community online has changed massively, including this forum to a certain extent. There has been a huge influx of autistic women, who because they are women are more functional and significantly more social and do not suffer from many of the issues that autistic men have traditionally faced. They tend to become more involved and post more often. They typically have many friends and multiple boyfriends in the past and face a totally different set of problems. They are much more motivated by feelings. They form cliques, and begin to police how people behave.

Autistic boys and men who have very logical minds and struggle greatly with socialising and forming connections with people, and resistant to change, get sidelined and eventually leave because they don't fit in with this group and have nothing in common with them. They are often made to feel ashamed for saying the wrong thing or not behaving appropriately.

A defining characteristic of autism is not knowing what's appropriate to say or how to do these little social shibboleths, or how to receive and interpret those signals. They do not understand what they've done wrong, only that they have been made to feel bad and so leave the place that makes them feel like that.

In this way, a lot of previously safe spaces for autistic men to discuss their difficulties and issues are lost, and just become indistuinguishable from being on Twitter with a lot of people shouting very loudly and insulting you if you don't conform to the narrow definition of what's acceptable, and shaming you for any behaviour or opinion that differs, even just describing your own experiences. So yeah, places do change.

Also tangential to this is a trend I've noticed recently of left wing women who watch a 30 second TikTok video about "5 signs you might be autistic" with things like "you feel lonely" or "you are different to others" and then they think are autistic. These women collect labels like "neurodiverse" and "non-binary" as if they were Pokemon - the more you have the better. They tend to be very politically motivated and want to change things, preaching tolerance and want to have as many victim-badges as they can get. And then they come into a group and demand the group changes to accommodate them, stop using words they've always used etc and redefine words. I'm not saying that's what has happened on this forum, that's just another related thing I have noticed.

I hope nobody is offended by me saying this, it's not targeted at anyone, it's just a pattern I have noticed repeatedly over the years. It's gets tiresome, I feel continually marginalised and isolated. I don't think this place is a good place to discuss current affairs or politics, people will have very different opinions, but nowadays autism has for some reason been claimed as a political issue inextricably linked to a lot of left wing diversity politics and that's where the division comes from.

And this is another example of offending people without meaning too.

You say you feel marginalised and isolated, well I have to say that I have felt the same recently, especially today.  And this post has actually made me feel like quitting.  

I'm non-binary, though many people see me as female.  It took me over a decade to get my diagnosis of autism, but I did get it.  These are not labels that I collect for fun, they are real and difficult things that I deal with. I have exactly the same difficulties with socialising and forming connections.  I have suffered rejection all my life and been taken advantage of multiple times.  But I haven't given up hope that there is a place for me and I keep looking and keep getting left outside the circle.

You might have enjoyed your boys club as it was, but the world is bigger than that and other people have the right to find their voice too.  But actually it's not the left wing or liberal voices that are dominating here, it's the ones holding onto traditional values that leave certain groups of people out.

I've tried to help people be more aware of how their words impact others, but I feel very unheard.  People keep insisting on their right to say hurtful things and demand that I not get offended by it because it's not what they meant.  

If I say that those women didn't mean to leave you out of their clique, they were just trying to share their experiences, does that make it any less painful for you?  Probably not, because the experience of being left out is still the same.

There's no divide between autistic women being more functional than autistic men.  I've only done what I've had to do to survive, and it's left me deeply damaged.  So when someone labels my entire birth sex as the source of the problem, and negates and belittles the challenges that I've faced, then yes that is hurtful.  

I'm not saying any of this to attack, just pointing out that there are two sides.

And this is another example of offending people without meaning too.

You say you feel marginalised and isolated, well I have to say that I have felt the same recently, especially today.  And this post has actually made me feel like quitting.  

I'm non-binary, though many people see me as female.  It took me over a decade to get my diagnosis of autism, but I did get it.  These are not labels that I collect for fun, they are real and difficult things that I deal with. I have exactly the same difficulties with socialising and forming connections.  I have suffered rejection all my life and been taken advantage of multiple times.  But I haven't given up hope that there is a place for me and I keep looking and keep getting left outside the circle.

You might have enjoyed your boys club as it was, but the world is bigger than that and other people have the right to find their voice too.  But actually it's not the left wing or liberal voices that are dominating here, it's the ones holding onto traditional values that leave certain groups of people out.

I've tried to help people be more aware of how their words impact others, but I feel very unheard.  People keep insisting on their right to say hurtful things and demand that I not get offended by it because it's not what they meant.  

If I say that those women didn't mean to leave you out of their clique, they were just trying to share their experiences, does that make it any less painful for you?  Probably not, because the experience of being left out is still the same.

There's no divide between autistic women being more functional than autistic men.  I've only done what I've had to do to survive, and it's left me deeply damaged.  So when someone labels my entire birth sex as the source of the problem, and negates and belittles the challenges that I've faced, then yes that is hurtful.  

I'm not saying any of this to attack, just pointing out that there are two sides.

Untoward said:

Do you mean me? I don't even know who you are or that you are non-binary. I'm not advocating for anyone to say hurtful things to you.

Yes, I'm saying that your words were hurtful.  It doesn't matter what your intentions were.  You made an assumption about non-binary people in general which was offensive.  Whether you had particular people in mind or not, claiming that people are just making things up about their gender identity or their neuro status is belittling and prejudiced.

But I'm also trying to say that I understand how you feel about being left out and I sympathise.  And I'm suggesting that rather than turn it into an argument about your intentions, which are already understood, you accept gracefully that you made a mistake and try not to make it again.

But I'm ducking out of this thread now because it's becoming far too unsettling.

Glitter said:

So when someone labels my entire birth sex as the source of the problem

I have not done this. I'm actually not sure what your birth sex is, but to be clear: there is no problem with whatever it is. There are lots of autistic women who I feel a lot of solidarity with and who have been supporting towards me.

Glitter said:

actually it's not the left wing or liberal voices that are dominating here

They dominate here, and everywhere. You will be showered with support, anyone going against it will be shunned.

Glitter said:

These are not labels that I collect for fun

Then what I said surely wasn't about you.

Glitter said:

People keep insisting on their right to say hurtful things and demand that I not get offended by it because it's not what they meant

Do you mean me? I don't even know who you are or that you are non-binary. I'm not advocating for anyone to say hurtful things to you.

I think there is an overlap with the gender stuff because autistic people often don't feel like they belong or identify with what's "normal". So in the past, an autistic woman might have not really felt much like other women. Now there are many labels for this (most of which I don't understand). That means there has been an influx of people with radically different ideas into a space that was previously very male. Two communities that were previously on opposite ends of the political spectrum with very little in common that would never have interacted are now inextricably joined together and so the autistic community has become unrecognisable.

As a result of that, there is a lot more political ideology and activism, autism is being turned into another label to identify with rather than a disorder.

Please don’t quit. This place needs diversity to remain healthy. Maybe it was insufficiently diverse and healthy before if it truly was a ‘safe space for men’ - or boys club as you less opaquely put it. I haven’t been here long enough to know (thank goodness by the sounds of it). We know that women were underserved for years by studies and discussion and diagnosis. But now apparently people who aren’t cis het men are getting a fair presence on boards like this (because they’ve followed the same path of struggle to it as any man has) they get accused of collecting trophies - as if investing time here and painfully pouring their hearts out is some way to be ‘bang on trend’. Just… no. Is there maybe more eloquent and deep expression of feelings? Maybe. And good! Is there increased ‘policing’ by women or non binary people? No. Just self-advocacy of the sort sorely needed because insufficient numbers of blokes can be relied on to be truly supportive and inclusive. But there are a few of us. Maybe I’m a touch more female-brained than the average essentially cis-het man (autistic or otherwise), I can only hope so as it seems that empathy is often surprisingly lacking even in ‘outsider’ communities because old school received wisdom and male entitlement infiltrates even large numbers of the neurodiverse.