Told I'm gullible, infantilised and gaslit.

there are probably more substance abusers or as I prefer users living indoors than on our streets,  if the users addiction was alcohol then getting support is easy. Has any body here tried to break a dependent habit? I’m pretty certain it’s tough, more so if you’re living outside. 

Yh it's heavily implied in my other posts but I used to drink a lot when I was homeless, mostly so I didn't feel the cold so much but also because it numbed the emotional pain of being in that situation. But once my situation improved I didn't need to drink like that anymore, so I just don't now, thankfully I was never chemically addicted to it or else I couldn't even have a small social drink at Xmas now. But alcohol abuse (the act) isn't necessarily the same as being an alcoholic (which is a condition).
Had an actual nicotine addiction in my mid 20s though but I quit that cold turkey as they call it.

I think what a lot of folk do is confuse cause with corrrelation.
In my case the drink was a result of being homeless, not the homelessness a result of being a drinker. If the dole money could have made a deposit for a flat I guarantee it wouldn't have gone on alcohol. Well thankfully I shut the door on that chapter or my life over 15 yrs ago now. I've made quite the recovery for someone who didn't think they'd live to see their mid 20's or 30's.

🐝 Bees 🐝 (they/them) Autism resources in bio #stoptheshock #NothingAboutUsWithoutUs said:

If the dole money could have made a deposit for a flat I guarantee it wouldn't have gone on alcohol.

But that’s the issue isn’t it. Given enough time dole money would have been enough for a deposit. Even if it took months saving it on the street to get to that point. It’s hard to forgo the booze or drugs etc that can make you feel good now to get a deposit etc later.

so many homeless people will come up asking for money saying they’re trying to save up for a room for the night. And they’re always claiming they’re just a few quid away which they almost never are. Even if they genuinely believe they are saving up for a room, when it becomes obvious they won’t have enough this night where does that money go? To their local off-licence or dealer. It’s hard to endure hardship now for relief later. Which is why so many turn to substance abuse.

I do like this medium when it doesn't descend into point scoring or childishness, and us Autists seem way more controlled than some places I go. We get a bit more point and counter point here than a lot of places...

Thanks to you guys I am truly getting past the point of telling myself that "Autism isn't all bad, to a point of actually being glad I am made this way.

FInally I've reached the point where I am glad I was not "screened for and aborted"...

Clearly, there is much concern for the homeless, here...

I Sperg said:

You appear to write like someone who has not personally overcome the financial challenges that a homeless person faces, even if they take your advice and go cold turkey. It's my belief that in such circumstances, begging then squirrelling the money away to save up for a flat, (or even an interview suit!) is a far, far more daunting and difficult prospect in a way those of us with some base can understand. 

Thankfully I've never been homeless, I've been dirt poor and reliant on family for housing though. I know what it is to collect coupons / vouchers for food etc. The point stands though. I choose compassion over sympathy and giving people what they need over what they want. Giving people money for drugs / booze because they feel awful won't fix the situation. Giving them food will fill their belly for one night. So I chose the option that meaningfully improves their situation. You might say if I'd been where they'd been I might feel more sympathy for them and maybe I would. ... but they don't need my sympathy they need something thats going to make their situation tangibly better.

I Sperg said:

I was next to the magazine resource, trying to sleep with my head on may camera bag, and waking up every time someone went to get a magazine. Most paranoid night of my life. Wouldn't want to do too much of it.

Don't think I could do it and save for a flat either.

To be fair over time it would probably make me really miserable and afraid all the time, and if a "ten bag" or a "few tinnies" would definitely and without question turn those feelings off for a few hours, they might serve my immediate needs much better than some sound financial/lifestyle advice...

 There is a thing called "maslows heirarchy of needs" that explains this better, I think.

I empathise whith this entirely. Thankfully I only had a few weeks of it and a park bench is warm enough in a heatwave summer but I know the fear like you dscribed, being so out in the open making you vulnerable like that, it's not something I'd wish on anyone, especially when you're not the biggest person out there. But the more terrifying thing is I'd already hit a kind of mental rock bottom not just a situational rock bottom. Not only was I ashamed to have been thrown out, assumed I would just get by "somehow" which I wasn't but my self esteem had gone into minus figures. So even if I entertained the idea of asking a friend if I could couch surf once they got back from holiday (which I felt too ashamed to ask and answer the innevitable questions) I didn't think they would say yes to it (because I felt unworthy of that kindness) which was another tally added to my reasons to drink the cheapest nastiest stuff I could get my hands on after package sandwiches. It was only by some swing of fate I ran into said friend a few days after they got back and they must have put 2 and 2 together from my appearance because thankfully being a good friend I got taken in no questions asked.
I would be lying if I said I stopped drinking immediately though, because by that point the behaviour was being maintained by the resulting manic depression I had at the time. That took quite a bit longer to recover from. But at least I was in a more stable to place to rebuild my foundations from after that.
I do think people have this idea that if you need to self medicate (even if it is misguided) somehow you are less worthy of assistance, but I know better myself. I don't think physical health is worth anything if you haven't got good mental health to go with it. We know in the long run alcohol doesn't fix things and will make it worse but I know what it is like to need that immediate emotional salve, so it's not really up to me to say what someone does and doesn't need to get through the day. It's not like they're asking for a playstation.

I've noticed your posts in the past as expressing contrary views to my own, which in my book is not often a good thing.

Spending time trying to actively come up with a sensible way of helping the homeless, however, that puts you firmly in the Venn diagram of "people who think in a way of which I wholeheartedly approve").

You appear to write like someone who has not personally overcome the financial challenges that a homeless person faces, even if they take your advice and go cold turkey. It's my belief that in such circumstances, begging then squirrelling the money away to save up for a flat, (or even an interview suit!) is a far, far more daunting and difficult prospect in a way those of us with some base can understand. 

According to THIS webpage I am "destitute". Yet I am not "homeless". 

https://www.trustforlondon.org.uk/data/poverty-thresholds/

If those figure are true, that's an AWFUL lot of begging they have to do in order to get by.

And they have to save it rather than buying a cream for that thing on their foot, a McDonalds, or a new pair of shoes from the second hand shop etc.

Temptation every day, from a myriad of other things than drugs.

My best ever photograph was taken during one of my few nights of genuine homelessness, (when she threw me out over a trip to Norwich I needed to make to secure a few thousand quid from the N.U. by cashing in the policy before my house got reposessed, I grabbed my wallet and my camera... It was pre-digital so I can't share it here, but it's the homeless guy who was getting moved on by a well equipped policeman from the spot in the car park where he and his single can of stella had paused to play some music very well, on his tin whistle. It was that good, I'd followed it because I had nothing to do until norwich city centre quietened down enough for me to return to the traffic island where I intended to set up my plastic bag "basha" and get some kip, until the office opened in the morning. Since I was sitting next to him, when the coppers turned up ad I have the power of invisibiltiy when I want it, I got a series of several photographs of a superbly functional homeless person being quite frankly interfered with simply for playing a tune at nine o'clock at nigh in an empty car park...

He enquired after my plans, then insisted that I go check myself in at the church, and actually led me there, and made me go in before going on his way. I had to sign in and they gave me a nice pew to sleep on. I was next to the magazine resource, trying to sleep with my head on may camera bag, and waking up every time someone went to get a magazine. Most paranoid night of my life. Wouldn't want to do too much of it.

Don't think I could do it and save for a flat either.

To be fair over time it would probably make me really miserable and afraid all the time, and if a "ten bag" or a "few tinnies" would definitely and without question turn those feelings off for a few hours, they might serve my immediate needs much better than some sound financial/lifestyle advice...

 There is a thing called "maslows heirarchy of needs" that explains this better, I think.

I've noticed your posts in the past as expressing contrary views to my own, which in my book is not often a good thing.

Spending time trying to actively come up with a sensible way of helping the homeless, however, that puts you firmly in the Venn diagram of "people who think in a way of which I wholeheartedly approve").

You appear to write like someone who has not personally overcome the financial challenges that a homeless person faces, even if they take your advice and go cold turkey. It's my belief that in such circumstances, begging then squirrelling the money away to save up for a flat, (or even an interview suit!) is a far, far more daunting and difficult prospect in a way those of us with some base can understand. 

According to THIS webpage I am "destitute". Yet I am not "homeless". 

https://www.trustforlondon.org.uk/data/poverty-thresholds/

If those figure are true, that's an AWFUL lot of begging they have to do in order to get by.

And they have to save it rather than buying a cream for that thing on their foot, a McDonalds, or a new pair of shoes from the second hand shop etc.

Temptation every day, from a myriad of other things than drugs.

My best ever photograph was taken during one of my few nights of genuine homelessness, (when she threw me out over a trip to Norwich I needed to make to secure a few thousand quid from the N.U. by cashing in the policy before my house got reposessed, I grabbed my wallet and my camera... It was pre-digital so I can't share it here, but it's the homeless guy who was getting moved on by a well equipped policeman from the spot in the car park where he and his single can of stella had paused to play some music very well, on his tin whistle. It was that good, I'd followed it because I had nothing to do until norwich city centre quietened down enough for me to return to the traffic island where I intended to set up my plastic bag "basha" and get some kip, until the office opened in the morning. Since I was sitting next to him, when the coppers turned up ad I have the power of invisibiltiy when I want it, I got a series of several photographs of a superbly functional homeless person being quite frankly interfered with simply for playing a tune at nine o'clock at nigh in an empty car park...

He enquired after my plans, then insisted that I go check myself in at the church, and actually led me there, and made me go in before going on his way. I had to sign in and they gave me a nice pew to sleep on. I was next to the magazine resource, trying to sleep with my head on may camera bag, and waking up every time someone went to get a magazine. Most paranoid night of my life. Wouldn't want to do too much of it.

Don't think I could do it and save for a flat either.

To be fair over time it would probably make me really miserable and afraid all the time, and if a "ten bag" or a "few tinnies" would definitely and without question turn those feelings off for a few hours, they might serve my immediate needs much better than some sound financial/lifestyle advice...

 There is a thing called "maslows heirarchy of needs" that explains this better, I think.

I do like this medium when it doesn't descend into point scoring or childishness, and us Autists seem way more controlled than some places I go. We get a bit more point and counter point here than a lot of places...

Thanks to you guys I am truly getting past the point of telling myself that "Autism isn't all bad, to a point of actually being glad I am made this way.

FInally I've reached the point where I am glad I was not "screened for and aborted"...

Clearly, there is much concern for the homeless, here...

I Sperg said:

You appear to write like someone who has not personally overcome the financial challenges that a homeless person faces, even if they take your advice and go cold turkey. It's my belief that in such circumstances, begging then squirrelling the money away to save up for a flat, (or even an interview suit!) is a far, far more daunting and difficult prospect in a way those of us with some base can understand. 

Thankfully I've never been homeless, I've been dirt poor and reliant on family for housing though. I know what it is to collect coupons / vouchers for food etc. The point stands though. I choose compassion over sympathy and giving people what they need over what they want. Giving people money for drugs / booze because they feel awful won't fix the situation. Giving them food will fill their belly for one night. So I chose the option that meaningfully improves their situation. You might say if I'd been where they'd been I might feel more sympathy for them and maybe I would. ... but they don't need my sympathy they need something thats going to make their situation tangibly better.

I Sperg said:

I was next to the magazine resource, trying to sleep with my head on may camera bag, and waking up every time someone went to get a magazine. Most paranoid night of my life. Wouldn't want to do too much of it.

Don't think I could do it and save for a flat either.

To be fair over time it would probably make me really miserable and afraid all the time, and if a "ten bag" or a "few tinnies" would definitely and without question turn those feelings off for a few hours, they might serve my immediate needs much better than some sound financial/lifestyle advice...

 There is a thing called "maslows heirarchy of needs" that explains this better, I think.

I empathise whith this entirely. Thankfully I only had a few weeks of it and a park bench is warm enough in a heatwave summer but I know the fear like you dscribed, being so out in the open making you vulnerable like that, it's not something I'd wish on anyone, especially when you're not the biggest person out there. But the more terrifying thing is I'd already hit a kind of mental rock bottom not just a situational rock bottom. Not only was I ashamed to have been thrown out, assumed I would just get by "somehow" which I wasn't but my self esteem had gone into minus figures. So even if I entertained the idea of asking a friend if I could couch surf once they got back from holiday (which I felt too ashamed to ask and answer the innevitable questions) I didn't think they would say yes to it (because I felt unworthy of that kindness) which was another tally added to my reasons to drink the cheapest nastiest stuff I could get my hands on after package sandwiches. It was only by some swing of fate I ran into said friend a few days after they got back and they must have put 2 and 2 together from my appearance because thankfully being a good friend I got taken in no questions asked.
I would be lying if I said I stopped drinking immediately though, because by that point the behaviour was being maintained by the resulting manic depression I had at the time. That took quite a bit longer to recover from. But at least I was in a more stable to place to rebuild my foundations from after that.
I do think people have this idea that if you need to self medicate (even if it is misguided) somehow you are less worthy of assistance, but I know better myself. I don't think physical health is worth anything if you haven't got good mental health to go with it. We know in the long run alcohol doesn't fix things and will make it worse but I know what it is like to need that immediate emotional salve, so it's not really up to me to say what someone does and doesn't need to get through the day. It's not like they're asking for a playstation.