Published on 12, July, 2020
I've been meaning to start a thread on this for ages, but in a way it's such a big hang-up that I kept delaying it. Bur firemonkey's thread about fitting in has prompted me to have a go at putting some words together on the subject. Because this particular thing often makes me feel disproportionately alone/singular on a forum despite statistics I've seen elsewhere indicating that I shouldn't be.
The statistic in question: That 44% of 'high-functioning' autistic people are in relationships, and 56% are not.
When I read that about four months ago, it took a lot of the sense of societal pressure I'd been feeling momentarily off me, as I realised that I'm (within autistic circles) not only less of a minority than I'd be in society generally (where about 16% are in the mid-to long-term single camp at any one time, and about 5% have no real relationship history to speak of), but even part of a majority - the people who (at any given moment at any rate) are autistic and single. Presumably meaning that there's a core constituency of the long-term single somewhat larger than that NT-normative 5%-16% spectrum that I just mentioned.
So, when I came on here, I expected to see - comfortingly - others like me. Been on their own most of their life, live alone, and so on.
But nearly everybody on here who initially talks about not connecting well with people, struggling in society, needing a lot of solitude etc. will at some point casually reference a partner, spouse, children. The disconnect always feels strange to me. How did so many socially challenged people end up doing exactly what NTs do so perplexingly easily, and just fall into these highly prescribed, ultra-orthodox relationships and domestic - often marital - situations and why aren't they constantly reacting in puzzlement as to the contradictory nature of their situation?
I'm aware that that could almost sound like I'm trying to be derogatory about some (overall - life is complicated) lovely - hopefully!- situations for people that in fact I wish them only well with. But, like firemonkey felt about the employment stats/forum as 'proxy' situation (see the 'Not at all sure...' thread), I have an equivalent thing with the above that makes me feel very odd man out, when in theory that 54% weighting towards the contrary should be more detectably present here.
Am I wrong about that? One factor I should bear in mind is that coupled-up people (sometimes including 'living apart together's and so on) usually broadcast in real life a continuous hard signal (explicit information about that - wedding ring, who they're walking about with etc.) whereas the unmarried but in a relationship people and the truly single people are - when on solo trips out and about - blended together in complete and equal ambiguity - either status is completely undetectable at face value unless accompanied by children or somesuch. So you have to rely on probability theory to feel not anomalous when out and about. Eg. in a supermarket with 100 adults in it, 16 of them are in theory invisibly single, as I am (hope that makes sense!). Similarly, online - and very naturally - in referring to their life, a significant other, or children (the two not necessarily going together of course), or perhaps (as - I was sorry to hear - in fremonkey's case) being a widow - a coupled-up person soon confirms themselves as such. But that seems to be nearly everyone on here, and I can't make the evidence square adequately with the statistic in a way that doesn't leave me feeling like a strange outlier that even many on here would look at as a bit weird for not fitting into the norm more in at least (as if it was so easy!) that respect. It feels kind of lonely, and that a cosmic joke constantly has the objective truth of things hidden in my blind-spot, no matter what mental gymnastics or research I put myself through.
If there's anyone else on here who is single and comfortable saying so (I'm not trying to smoke you out for some nefarious agenda - that's absolutely not what this is about!) I'd appreciate that, as right now I feel like an alien even among aliens. And feeling so just a tiny bit less would be nice(r).
Sorry for digging up an old thread but this is the single biggest issue I have with the forum. I have always been single despite wanting very much not to be and every time I see a post about how alone someone is or how difficult they find connecting to people then - as you say - casually reference their spouse and children, it's like a knife in my guts.
Every time I see one of those posts - and it is most days on here - I wonder if this forum is the right place for me, or if there is a right place for me anywhere.
When I've brought this up with therapists they say something really quite patronising and unhelpful " but you're nice", "i believe in you", "things will get better". But that's not my reality. And I hoped this forum might be a place where I felt solidarity with people experiencing the same problems, but instead it's a constant reminder that even here, I am just less.
nah your not. i never had a relationship either and likely never will do.... infact i dont think i want one anymore... im 34... every woman my age has children and made terrible life choices, if a woman had a child and has been passed around does that woman truly understand love? would she truly love you or is she just going person to person not understanding love or feelings? .... i doubt the sincerity of the feelings of people who relationship hop so much or has had many relations or had kids...i doubt such a person truly loves. so i dont wanna get into relationships with such people as i doubt the sincerity of their feelings or their desire for the relationship.and yes, therapists and councillors are not helpful anyway... my sister trained to be one and got a qualification... she isnt a good person to listen to as her life decisions are aweful and she only pursued that because she didnt want a real job, she saw it as a easy benefit style life, in the end she needed more qualifications for it which she couldnt get and she couldnt be arsed so stayed on benefits and is now lying about certain things to maximise and game the benefit system, things which kinda mock the trauma and experiences wed go through she is using now for free life and money.... but yeah, councillors are not good people in my eyes, they are just lazy people who didnt want real jobs and are not a good source of information or support as they have terrible personal lives themselves and their motives for going into that career are by in large based on them being lazy and not having their life together themselves... not a very good place to turn to help or advice for... this is why counselling doesnt work.
I think it depends on the therapist. There are good and bad performers of every kind of job. There can also be people who give great advice to others but can't manage that for themselves - and I've a lot of empathy for that!
Watching other people intuitively pull that off feels like observing a magic trick, doesn't it? Two realities lived in close proximity but it might as well be parallel universes. I have a very small number of friends ( which of course suits me!) but that's only a plural situation thanks to one friend who stayed the course, and brought them to my door so to speak. Otherwise I'd be entirely friendless... offline anyway. Each of us is pretty observably neurodivergent (though I'm the only one to have sought and attained a formal diagnosis), which just shows that we rely on those 'oddball' (as NTs would see us) clusters to mutually forge - more through luck than design- and sustain any kind of friendship bonds and ongoing communication.
"So if the rest of the world runs on "playing games" and you personally have neither the inclination or the skills to "play games" then, my frneds, expect to be at the back of every fricking queue!!"
That's so very well and impressively succinctly put, and I feel like that all the time in terms of how the world works. I think most of we autistics need to converse on the level of text, not subtext, but the vast majority are hardwired for exactly the opposite.
My own circumstances have changed since I started this thread two years ago, as I'm in a lovely distance relationship with a wonderful person who somehow puts up with me... well the 'somehow' is of course that we are kindred spirits in many ways, and I'll say no more about that at this time! But I'm still glad that the thread occasionally resurfaces from dormancy, as the statistical stuff's capriciousness in not quite ever aligning to the anecdotal in a way that would bring hoped for comfort never truly resolves itself, and yet... many 'me too' sentiments have indeed provided solace in this thread, thanks to people kindly taking the time to raise their hand and 'speak' their truth...
I Sperg said:Now you might BE a real nice guy inside and your therapist can see that, but does your daily presentation reflect that?
That’s the thing - I get along with people at work just fine. I get asked for a pint after work, people will wander out at lunchtime with me. I have no problem having chats with people around the office.
It’s not that I’m “not likeable”. I just can’t convert those surface level interactions into a real friendship or relationship.
I've spent most of my life feeling like I was at the end of every fucking queue.
Money, women, popularity, happiness, acceptance, life experiences, EVERYTHING.
For some strange reason however I'm not wired for "envy".
Instead of resenitng my position in life, and envying others, I resented my position and wondered what the hell they had that I did not!
And more to the point, how could I get some...
I'm almost glad that I did not know I was Autistic, as lacking that diagnosis and being unaware that I had hard limits that others do not, I was super motivated to get better at the things others seemed to do so easily.
Now someone asked me the other day if I felt that this forum has helped me, and to be honest, apart from giving me a better idea of why people react to me the way they do in the real world, (It's been liek having an imperfect but functional mirror for the first time in my life, I do not think it has.
But having solved for myself (or at least found "work arounds") to some of the really upsetting issues that Autism seems to bestow, even though I still swing in an out of depression fairly regularly, I try to help others here with the things that have worked for me.
Apart from the Autism, I'm physically small, not good looking, "attractive" is the best feedback I've ever got, "money" really does elude me (although to be fair I'm sometimes not prepared to do the things that might ease my financial position) and I'm carrying a shedload of autism ADD PTSD type issues.
But I am able to acquire and sustain a relationship, simply because I know how they work, and what I have to do, to play my part. In my case I had to learn it from a book in my twenties, and back that up with a lot of observation and practice of the required skills.
BUT. Am I happy? DID it solve my essential loneliness? Well, partly...
The "thing" about us 'spergs partly seems to be that we really don't like "playnig games" (Except when we do, but that's not as often as the NT's manage, and usually badly learned behaviour from trying to interact with them, the majority, more sucessfully)
So if the rest of the world runs on "playing games" and you personally have neither the inclination or the skills to "play games" then, my frneds, expect to be at the back of every fricking queue!!
Worse, as many peoeple here report, who live with an N.T. when the original infatuation part of love wears off, and you fail to play enough of the right "games", you are in instant relationship trouble, right when you finally thought you had things sussed... Then if you can't play "relationship games", you are toast, In my limited experience.
In the neuro typical world they say there's "someone for everyone" and "you can't hurry love" etc..
In the Autistic world unless you conciously acquire the neccesary knowledge based tools and use them effectively, there isn't a very big pool of "someone for you" AT ALL.
In truth, learning to "Play Nice" does seem inauthentic, but in practice (after a lot of "practice"!) it starts to stick and become a part of who you are.
Now you might BE a real nice guy inside and your therapist can see that, but does your daily presentation reflect that? US Autists get an awful lot of criticism and by the time we hit adulthood all of us have HAD ENOUGH, so it's a big ask to expect people to see themsleves as presenting as "Not particularly nIce" especially after the abuse that most of us have suffered, and we alkl all hampered by teh mantra often repreated "it doesn;t matter what otehr peopel think" but it does. AND you can change how they think about you, simply by playing (and sometimes initiating) the right games.
My approach won't solve all your problems, magically, but WILL give you more tools and options.
Some of us have cats in our lives. Now unless you imprison your Cat, your cat always has the option of relocating if they don't like their situation, and they do.I've seen it. And to my great shame, experienced it with my first cat when after ten years I ended up in an impossible situation that meant I could not liv in my own house and could not take her with me. A situation that I tried to solve by getting her looked after by tenants whilst I tried for a better solution, whish wored well with my fiorst tenant, tbut she didn't like Ernie it turned out, and one night when I visited she refused to come to me, or seemingly recognicse me, and I never saw her again... The point being it that you have a RELATIONSHIP with a cat, and it kind of validates the supposition that you can have what it takes to have a relationship with a human, too.
I hope there's some useful takeaway for someone in all these words I've just typed.
I don' think you're lacking. Each of us has individual circumstances. There will be a reason you've found it harder to find romance than some people. Autistic people relate to one another better, perhaps, than to neurotypical people but we are still all quite unique. Some have great childhoods, others were abusive, some have known harsh poverty, others are rich, some have brain damage or physical illnesses, all families are different too, the area you've grown up in has an impact, even random things you wouldn't think of.
It was my social difficulties that led to my diagnosis. I thought if nothing else at least I’d found an explanation, but apparently not. Autism isn’t the explanation. I’m just lacking.