Masking and Unmasking

I love experiments & learning other points of view....this is interesting. I've def always had a problem with authority/obedience & I see alot of group think in the world today-that I believe is really sad. You might find this video interesting...I watched it the other day, how most of the 60's flower children.....ended up conforming and losing sight of their own personal values/ideals.....like a force they couldn't/didn't realize was happening. I think they conformed bc they were lured into 'materialism'. Big house, nice car, luxury of the 80's.

Checking this out. Thank you.

I'm the same I'm not good at small talk I have to really think about it I just usually take longer than most to think about what im going to say I often think up scenairos in my head and silently rehearse what I would say in situations if I ever got in them that helps me not to trip up so much it helps me to think of my mind like a filing cabinet with scenarios and convos and responses and I just pluck out what I need when I need it 

Thanks O,

I hear what you are saying, the thing for me is,

Especially, if its in a new situation, either a social event, or work related event, where I dont really know the person, but I actually DO want to interact and be involved with what is going on. I am ok most of the time, with friends or well aquainted people.

I can't seem to Express myself, I get confused by how to construct in a meaningful way, that I can recognise, that the other person, actually understands what I am saying.

While I am saying it, I can visually see the sentences Im trying to say, but as I say them, they jumble up and confuse me as to what I am actually trying to say! If that makes any sense??

Its, like grating a carrot! it starts of whole, then when you grate it, it comes out the other side (still a carrot) but its shredded and mixed together in a different way!

Very often, I have found that people look at me strangely and ask

"what are you on about"? so perhaps, I may try in another way, but still get that blank look of confusion from the other person.

So more often than not, I stay silent at that point, or on occasion, continue to woffle on trying to explain. Then the other person cant deal with talking to me! Then I tend to ruminate how I have upset that person? Im not saying I have upset the person, I just dwell on the fact I may have? I have done that as log as I can remember!

Then you start getting questions from others around, like why are you miserable, (most of the time I am not) but its the fact I have gone quiet. Then the usual comments, arise, like why do you have to spoil things... etc It just cascades!

The one consolation is "I know what I meant" lol lol

And all successful poker players. My argument is one of degree and the consequences of failing. If someone brokering a business deal ceases to conform to expectations, the deal might fall through - a limited consequence. Whereas, an autist letting the mask slip might be socially ostracised, lose friends, lose a partner or lose a job, with consequent mental and physical health problems - more drastic consequences.

loads of nonautistic do mask, especially in business during negotiations, then presenting, then entertaining.   some are trained in it.

I suspect that there is a continuum of behaviour ranging from adapting, through conforming to masking. Perhaps masking could be characterised by the existence of a wide divergence away from what would be the natural behaviour of a particular person, and where 'letting the mask slip' would have drastic effects on social acceptance and social success. I have no doubt that some neurotypicals mask, but that it is far more common in, and more advantageous for, autistic people. 

I think trying to be honest with who you are and what you're capable of and not over reaching is a start and then from that point on you can build your self when it comes to expressing your feelings.

Feelings are not something that I'm at or with that is probably the biggest issue I have and I think there isn't anything I can really do about that because I'm autistic I'm more of the stereotypical "Aspie"/Autistic person in terms of what you read, I'm quite, relatively emotionless in an outward manner (I have emotions but they don't come out at all really), very black and white, yes no, good or bad thinker. Even though my grades don't reflect I'm definitely above average in intelligence but not crazy levels of intelligence.

I would say in a few words. The ability to express your self PROPERLY and correctly has to proceed you accepting what you are and what you can do and moving from there.

Don't let your age get in the way of that either I always hear older people saying that life is short but there are people that get more done in the last 30-40 years of their life that they ever did when they were younger and compared to younger people around them.

I would also say, how much does masking in these apparently different ways affect ones mental health? And also maybe it's more "conscious" for non AS people, whereas for AS people it might be more "subconscious" altho I think there's probably an element of both with both groups. But it might be more one way or the other depending on AS or non AS. I certainly didn't realise I was masking at all until I'd read about it and I still don't realise a lot of the time because it's so automatic.

Yes, that sounds more accurate a description for me. I would imagine we do it more than others and more likely in order to be more acceptable. 

Thank you guys for your nice replies I never know what to say when people give me compliments and just say nice things to me so thank you I was having a bit a bad day today so I was happy to see these :) :) :) 

It is a fascinating area of study. It's just that there are very few empirical studies conducted. A lot of the stuff that passes for research is mostly subjective opinion and/or anecdotal.

One of the best observable studies that revealed how we adapt and conform to social and institutional pressures was conducted in the 60's. It's a very famous experiment, so you may already be familiar with it. 

1967-classroom-experiment-proved-how-easy-it-was-for-americans-to-become-***-

Also, there are the groundbreaking experiments of Milligram (also in the 60's). The goal of the Milgram experiment was to test the extent of humans' willingness to obey orders from an authority figure. It seems that most humans are easily able to turn against each (and commit acts of violence on other people) in order to conform to authority.

milgram-experiment

Both fascinating, but quite chilling examples of the herd-like mentality of humans and their willingness to follow leaders. It's an uncomfortable reality. But, you can see it play out even in today's pandemic between the pro and and anti-maskers. 

I've watched the video.  I think they did refer in parts to things that "every body does". I seem to remember from another Yo samdy sam video (or it might have been a study I read) where it mentioned that non autistic people mask to manage their reputation, whereas autistic people mask more to just be able to get by in socisl situations.

my mother was expert in Masking and could instantly talk to someone in their accent. freakly to watch :)

aidie has a range of personas with differing sexes and can switch to one when they are needed.  most are very useful and positive. 

I am OBSESSED with uncovering mental models (society, upbringing, self-image) etc. Absolutely fascinated with this and going through the ups/downs of discovering what mine are.

I don't (as yet) accept that masking a trait specific to autism. I'm not going to watch this video for this reason. Not yet, at any rate.  I don't think I've ever met anyone with or without autism who doesn't mask their natural personality to conform to social pressures, and/or avoid abuse or social conflict. 

I know it's a popular concept in autistic circles, which is why I avoid it. I wouldn't want anyone to think I was in any way diminishing their very real experiences. But, for me, I have seen no evidence in the articles I've read to suggest that it is in anyway unique to autistic people. That may be a result of how it is being described.

What I can accept is that it may be more pronounced or exaggerated in autistic people. Autistic people do seek to hide the fact that they are autistic. This is true for many minorities in society who have sought to conceal certain physical traits in order to blend in and be accepted by the cultural majority. 

So, perhaps I'd feel more receptive to the idea of autistic masking, or some other term that distinguishes the physical and psychological accommodations autistic people make from the ones that everyone else makes.

No human I've ever encountered, autistic or otherwise, has been entirely authentic in the company of other humans. Even heterosexual males who are considered as having more social privilege are constantly engaged social posturing with one another (usually psychological or physical plays for dominance). We all inherit and perform social roles. We all wear different masks for different situations and for different interactions: Father, Mother, Brother, Friend, Lover, Employee, Employer, Teacher, Student... the list is endless. My understanding is that it's the very foundation of all human interaction. 

In fact, wearing physical masks to change our appearance has been deeply engrained in every expression of human culture since the first humans danced around fires in caves wearing painted face-coverings. 

So, while it is possible that masking is more pronounced among autistic people for reasons of acceptance and conflict-avoidance, I don't believe it is unique to us.  All humans conform, to some degree, to the norms of the tribe and culture we are part of, whether we do it consciously or unconsciously. 

Your response is so awesome--I love it. I hear what you mean. I just learned about gender identity and gender expression. If I had to quantify it, I feel 75% male 25% female. What you described about the differences in male/female growing up. I think I tried to do the popular/fit in with girls thing for awhile & learned it....but then veared off into softball, basketball, tetherball and making male friends. You mom & auntie sound awesome. If I end up moving to England over France, I'd be curious to find out more about their recruitment company. I almost partnered with someone last fall to open a temp agency....but instead decided to hyper-hone in on finishing 11 classes to earn my bachelors degree. I'm learning how to get out of burnout at the moment---and not let myself do that again. I like to hear about strong women. What's funny is, I'm polite, kind and honest....sometimes it's hard for me to handle very curt/short women myself....but da*mn if they get the job done I have respect. I think it's more important that I respect someone vs liking them--now that I think about it & I've always noticed it's the men with 'real confidence' who view me as an asset, not a threat.' My husband has feminine qualities. He used to wear dresses, lipstick and demon eye contacts to church. I think this has made him very comfortable in his gender identity/expression. We call strong women a 'bi*ch' and sensitive/caring men 'pu**y' well......I'd say that's some bs and simply untrue. Hopefully, society is changing with gender norms and what's expected....but it needs to hurry up. I watched "Black Monday" on Showtime talking about women's rights etc.....dam* I still had to deal with getting my shoulders rubbed at a job & then before my two-weeks being told by my boss, he didn't want to see me go, but the owners said I needed to leave. At first, I didn't understand all of this non-binary, gender-vague, gender-fluid ideas-----but now, it's helping me really hone-in & understand a big part of myself. I look in the mirror & I like what I see, I like sometimes doing female things like bubble baths or choc/wine......but the other 75% my clothes are tomboy (my mom was always trying to feminize my male sneakers by putting bows on them) and I keep not understanding why I'm not receiving the respect/praise and being put 'in a box.' 

If I ask people "hiya how are you?" they think I want to know. When I don't. I do this because it's what you do. But if they say to me "hiya how are you?" and I actually start to tell them, they aren't interested! 

People are definitely not comfortable with silence. I do wonder if that's an evolutionary thing as if we all sat there in silence relationships wouldnt form.

O

I would just like to say, reading your reply, has brought an emotional tear to my eye. It's a tear of happiness a goodness a relief, I actually felt a real wave of WOW!

There is a lot of your experience you have mentioned that I can really IDENTIFY with, for the FIRST TIME, I actually understand something... It has taken me 55 years! to this moment... So "THANK YOU"...

I have never allowed myself to express any feeling or show much, if any emotion, maybe I need to learn to allow myself  more of this? but again " Thank You"

Hahah, so true. I despise small talk---people think I'm rude, but when I sense it start, I say one thing-then walk off. I want to talk deep or not at all. I can't see the point of asking how I am if you don't really want the answer. Shallow conversation OR silence.....people aren't comfortable with silence--I don't think it's my job to make them comfortable with that. lol Talk to much about yourself or too little....it IS a bloody minefield lol That's hilarious.