Do You Embrace Autism?

Daniel said:

A good community is not an argumentative community

Actually I disagree. argument is the refining fire through which we improve our ideas. civil and courteous argument has value, is necessary and is to be strongly encouraged.

Peter,

A good community is not an argumentative community, like others in this thread you could of said no and why instead of changing the discussion to labels, I required the adjective for people to know what I meant.

If you interpreted me correctly you would of known I were simply asking people if they like their Autism and why.

I wrote why I like my Autism and why. That's what this discussion is, you are obliged to not cause trouble in discussions by bringing up things that have nothing to do with the discussion as you've done so. If you want to start a discussion on something else that's nothing to do with what the author is saying you start a separate discussion in a separate thread.  

If you disagree with something you’re welcome to share your point of view, but you are not welcome to disrespect another’s point of view trying to have theirs seen as flawed as you’ve done so by choosing to start an argument. 

i never used to embrace it because i was scared to admit it to myself. but after learning about it and things like special interests most of my decisions get made based on that because i try to focus on what makes me happy as possible.

allow me to be specific. I saw several different strands and points in your posts. I don't believe I misinterpreted them or pretended I didn't know what they meant. I simply ignored the points you were making and issues you touched upon that i thought were less interesting in favour of those I found more interesting. It just so happened that those were points you felt were irrelevant (or less relevant). But I'm under no obligation not to argue with you if I think there is a point worth arguing (provided I do it respectfully)

Peter,

You're the one who began arguing, like others you could of just not responded if you disagree instead of start an argument. If you know what something means you shouldn't be deceitful and pretend you don't know what it means.

I didn't. I just chose to point out something tangental (but to my mind more important) to the main thrust of your argument,

Agreed!  I had obstacles but without a label of "disabled", no one told me I couldn't either and credited my good stuff on an absolute parr with others.

I certainly don't intend to see myself as "disabled" now - just that there's something a bit different about me which sometimes gives me a few extra hurdles, but sometimes works in my favour. 

Peter,

Then why intentionally misinterpret my post? 

Daniel said:

Everyone’s brain is labelled and has to be

Look we're mostly arguing semantics here but I think this is the one point of contention upon which we genuinely disagree. Labels are not obligatory, sometimes they are useful, and sometimes not. Just like shoe sizes. Sometimes useful, sometimes not, never obligatory. You can go into a shop and when they ask you what shoe size you are hold out your hands and go 'about this big.' You can use a different sizing system like I'm a 9 in a us, or a supper specific sizing system like a 10G. You can say I'm about a 10 in brand x and a nine in brand y. You can buy custom shoes, shoe makers aren't even forced to give their shoes designated sizes. There was a time when no shoes had sizes and most shoes were custom.

It's the same for autism. We used to have aspergers and autism, before that we just had 'he's a bit of a weirdo', now we have autism and autistic spectrum condition, some people want to add pathological demand avoidance to the mix. There is no one right system for measuring neurological weirdness, some labels are more or less useful situationally but in terms of your own thinking you can get by perfectly well with out the label and in many ways you will know yourself better with out the label because lables tend to generalise and obscure detail.

Peter,

Why do you keep telling me what I’m telling you?

Everything is labelled, everyone’s brain is in a condition, the condition of your brain is your brain, and that condition is labelled Autism. Everyone’s brain is labelled and has to be, labels are reference points. 

If someone autistic is unsuitable to work because of Autism how can they explain their difficulties if there’s no adjectives or label to explain it?

If your brain was not labelled Autism and you do anything the majority does not do like stimming, if an employer asks you why are you stimming how can you explain without your brain labelled Autism? You wouldn’t be able to, so they’ll just think you’re incapable and childish then sack you.

An individual with ADHD, if their brain was not labelled ADHD and they get hyperactive how are they going to explain themselves?

Do you have an autistic brain? If yes, your brain is in an autistic condition. 

I were talking specifically about an autistic brain, would I writing “Do you embrace your brain?”, people wouldn’t know what that means. Your brain is your neurodevelopment, is your neurodevelopment yours? Is your neurodevelopment labelled Autism? If yes, your neurodevelopment is your Autism.

Answer this question; why have doctors labelled your brain autistic?

Daniel said:

Autism is the condition of your brain

No. Autism is a label used by doctors to describe the condition of my brain and many others brains. My shoe size is 10. Does that tell you if my feet smell? Sometimes I fit in a 9. Sometimes I need a size 11. A label or categorisation of that kind is a subjective nebulous concept. The label autism is, to a degree, an oversimplification for lazy minds and situations with limited data. I'm not embarrassed to be called autistic. I'm concerned that people read too much into that word sometimes. Treat it like an absolute, monolithic concept. You can paint as many rainbows as you like on things but people, even doctors, will tend to draw unjustified assumptions and treat labels as absolutes.

I find it so sad that autistic children keep hearing themselves described as disabled, disorder, deficits etc. It sabotages and discourages them from believing in their gifts and potential.

Peter,

Our neural pathways is part of our neurodevelopment, Autism is a neurodevelopmental condition. Autism is the condition of your brain, of your neurodevelopment. And as you said, the neural pathways create the traits, neurodevelopment creates the neural pathways, your neurodevelopment is described as Autism.

Neurotypical is the condition of the majority of brains. Their neurodevelopment is typical.

Don’t you know the meaning of the neurodiversity movement logo? The infinity shape full of various colours.

You use your brain to make choices, it’s your choices that make you who you are. Autism is your brain, so if you don’t embrace Autism (your brain), you don’t embrace yourself. That’s why I wrote “do you embrace YOUR Autism”.

 If you won’t even embrace the condition of your brain, you certainly don’t embrace yourself.

I care TOO MUCH!

I really identify with Roy Batty.    Almost human - but not quite enough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoAzpa1x7jU

Yes, it's suddenly got me looking at my achievements and their positive impacts for me and others in a new light.  Who cares if I can't ride a bike and my spelling sucks?

Respectfully I do say to you you still don't seem to understand my point. What is autism? A set of variant neural pathways, a certain combination of mutant genes? Autism isn't classified that way. It's a cluster of associated traits. Whether a certain person measures as autistic or not might depend on the system used to measure them, the mood they are in on the day measured, the way the doctor subjectively interprets the test.

Retts syndrome used to be diagnosed as autism, not any more, Do you think someone with retts or fragile x syndrome has much in common with what you or I experience? It's posable that quite different variations in neural pathways give rise to very different experiences of the world that are all called autism because they share a few common traits doctors have decided should be lumped together but to a degree that choice of traits is subjective.

Your thinking is back to front. Autism doesn't give you hyper focus, hyper focus in connection with a few other traits is what causes you to be categorised as autistic. The condition of your mind, your neurology, exists independently of the classification which is to some degree arbitrary. You sit in a very wide and convoluted cluster embedded in a high dimensional space of neurological traits.

In fact one of the things that defines autism is how wide and varied the presentation is compared to the anticipated norm. But clustering is inherently subjective. How close do two clusters have to be before they are 1? How far from the cluster do you have to be before you are an outlier? It's subjective. The pattern of neurological traits you personally experience are objective, at least by comparison.

I think sometimes we are so keen to emphasise what autistic people have in common we forget that maybe sometimes the differences are more important. Because being different not just from normal people, but also from each other, is part of what being autistic is all about. That's what it truly means to be on the spectrum.

I'm ok with my autism.    I went over 40 years thinking I was like everyone else but being treated like crap - but I was so focussed and driven that I overcame all of the people shooting holes in the bottom of my boat as I navigated the oceans of life.

I could do lots of things better than my peers - I had no idea just *how* much better until after diagnosis I did some serious self-analysis and started to critically measure things - and people..

I now totally understand what a friend is - and how most people are not my friends.

I totally understand how people work and I really don't like most people.     They are not usually actively horrible - but their actions and inactions create an overall selfish and self-important persona.        Very few people give freely of themselves - and I'm finding that the vast majority of those who do are on the spectrum.

I have a twin brother - a direct comparison of a 'normal' version of me.

I have the ability to do anything.      I pick up qualifications like sweets.      I have done things that most people couldn't possibly understand.

My actions and skills saved over 400 people's jobs.

The things I have created have saved thousands of lives.

None of this would have been possible if I was 'normal'.

Yeah, I'm pretty ok with my autism.

I love you and I'm sorry you're hurting.

Here, here! Daniel