for all people suffering ,,,,,stop blaming others,,,,,,, zen

I don't know that I agree. You can't fix a problem until you really know what a problem is. And sometimes there is a moment when after years of trying so many different things you realise you are not the problem. The situation you find yourself in is not merely indifferent to your aspirations it actively opposes them. And then you start quoting hamlet "To be, or not to be? That is the question. Whether ’tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or to take arms against a sea of troubles, and, by opposing, end them?" Because if others really are to blame you have a choice, you can sit in a little pity party and give up trying to fix the broken things that frustrate you so. Or you can choose the path of conflict and 'take arms against a sea of troubles.' Maybe the real criticism we should have of ourselves as autistic people is not that we blame others for limiting our opportunities but that we've been too conflict adverse when they do.

Zen teaches u that the solution is within you at all times its never anywhere else !

Zen says, everyone is pure and good,,  you just have to remove/quiet/see through the bad thoughts  and thinking ( imposed by society etc, and created by your own mind "the ego" ) to return to the real you

to people who say "take up arms", I say you go ahead, you do it.

But dont use, or encourage,  the vulnerable, or anyone i know,  to do it for you

Zen says ---- your views are allowed you are just on the wrong path 

Zen just gave me a headache, lol,,, it is so difficult,   coming from a background/upbringing of pure violence to that of pure peace with life and the universe  ( equanimity )

Well I come from a christian tradition so take a different view. As we like to remind people if you ask what would Jesus do remember chasing you with a whip is on the list of options. You don't have to hate people to seek conflict with them, just to recognise there is a situation that won't be resolved without conflict. Passive self sacrifice is noble, if it serves some higher purpose or is protecting someone. If it's merely a means of escaping conflict for an easy life then its ultimately self serving.

I totally agree 

this thread has just served its purpose

aidie said:

I am waiting for MyKal to vote me down now with a -1 now. such a bully/troll

You're pretty handy with the down-votes yourself - please don't pretend to be an angel.   

that works in both directions ie Neurotypicals are considered evil/bad by some  which is bigoted thinking  thus this thread inspired by Zen  and indeed Temple Grandin " you cant use autism as an excuse ".

I am waiting for MyKal to vote me down now with a -1 now. such a bully/troll

He's been doing it for days now against me lol  but being Zen I forgive him 

his karma will be messed up big time lol

Maybe. I guess the part that I'm thinking about right now is the tail of the good samaritan. People don't have to be 'one of us' to be worthy of our compassion. Unfortunately where I'm standing it looks like not being 'one of us' is all the licence some neurotypicals need to try to pick on or exclude autistic people. I don't think we're doing them or society a favour by letting them get away with it.

From what I understand that is less to do with Christianity and more to do with evolution. Communities that worked together and protected each other had a better chance to survive and grow. Morality is ingrained in us because it benefits the whole community if we respect the wellbeing of others. That gets taught to each new generation who use previous experiences to grow and adapt. 

I guess I do mean christian conscience or something similar to it. That we all innately have some sense that respect for the wellbeing of others is morale. Now our understanding of wellbeing is limited by our perspective and knowledge. The serial killer and the surgeon both cut people with knives, but they have a different intention and knowledge. But we don't lock surgeons up if they get it wrong, just take away their knives.

We'll have to disagree on the definition of person in that instance.      Do you know the whole story?

not funny a person was killed 

I would have done the same - but he was sloppy. 

where is this conscience ?

do u mean Christain conscience ?

or do u mean----   do what u think is right ? 

this is what Zen challenges 

so he was wrong according to your reply

Mr Martin made 2 mistakes - shooting them in the back and telling the police - no bodies makes cause of death more tricky to ascertain,.    Plenty of pig farms around there......

yes their was a case in england whereby the owner shot the burglars dead(?) as they where leaving  but he did time for manslaughter

I once had a south African man say to me that he'd made history, that most of the people he'd grew up with had, because they'd lived through apartheid and done nothing. None of them particularly liked apartheid, but none of them cared enough to take a stand against it. And that future generations would judge them for what they didn't do. Doing nothing doesn't absolve one from blame or responsibility. Every choice you make (including the choice of doing nothing) will be judged by someone somewhere. The best you can do is follow your conscience.

That would be obvious to me if the need arose - if people are smashing down my door, they'd better be prepared for the reception.

what is right ?

biological right

or law of the country right

or religion right

or just your right? 

in short u could be deemed wrong by a later generation or another country or even your country !

I have no desire to hurt anyone - but if people seek conflict with me, they will find I'm happy to go right back at them.

I will also not stand by and watch innocent people being hurt.    Sometimes, being a man means something and standing up for right is one of them..

Zen buddhism isnt a religion so u can be Christian and Buddhist but  I would say the Buddhism part is so powerful the deeper u go,,,  that any trace of a religion would be over written.

but there are Christian Buddhists running around i just haven't met one yet 

love thy neighbour as yourself ! 

I also come from a Christian background but found most Christians dont follow their own teachings !

love thy neighbour as yourself ! 

I also come from a Christian background but found most Christians dont follow their own teachings !

I am,,,  and have been doing so over 2 years now ---  someday i will understand it. Just been chatting with a Zen Master today  hes given me some guidance in return for some of my services - a zen trade 

You have to read and absorb those teachings first before you can follow them, and whether kids got exposed to Christianity or not was a decision devolved to the public back in the seventies. Seemed like a more utilitarian system of basic human training for the kids than "drag queen story time" or "call of duty" if you ask me, but I am old, we are known for getting things wrong... Or at least that's what all the media has been telling me all my life about old people. IS it any wonder peopel are so confused these days?