Adult female diagnosis - mum doesn't think I had many childhood traits

Maybe, because your mum might be Autistic too, so your "strange" behaviour was normal to her.

My mum is long gone, but wouldn't have supported me in assessment if she was here. She'd take the idea that I had difficulties as a massive personal insult & criticism. She never accepted that she ever did anything wrong, when in reality she was a poor parent who put her own relationship with my dad above anything else & threw me out at 16, despite my extremely vulnerable state.

To an outsider, she appeared to be the perfect mother, because she'd do anything for anyone, to the detriment of her own family. She had us walking the next-door neighbours dogs several times a day & made them Christmas dinner, which she changed the timing of by 3 hours to suit theim. I found this bizarre, because she was doing them a favour but allowed them to dictate terms.

For all her helping the neighbours etc, she wouldn't do a damn thing for me, no matter how small & if I dare turn up at her house at anything other than our usual allotted time she made me feel so unwelcome she may as well have told me to *** off.

I would agree. With it being very much a brain development issue, there is no brain scan that can tell you you have Autism yet the assessment area seems to be so out of date, restricted and stereo-typical of some of the most debilitating common traits like; you must have shown obvious signs throughout childhood as if you only came out of the womb alone with the traits, you have to have verbal communication problems and avoid eye contact.

I think it is becoming clearer that these criteria are beginning to sound absurd in their limitations and reading those on here who have already  been publicly and privately diagnosed proves this. It's messy.

I'm still awaiting assessment, but mine was actually picked up by a counsellor who was helping me with PTSD. I always thought that I had good eye contact, I've worked in forward facing roles for many years and never heard of anyone complaining. She told me that I have a tendency to maintain eye contact, she had a number of occasions where she had to look away because she became uncomfortable. While it's common for it to be a lack of eye contact, it should really just be listed as something like 'non standard eye contact' or something along those lines. It probably does create a bias by promoting only the most common trait over any other.

I'm trying to relocated them and will post when I find them again.  There was one journal piece written by a practicing psychotherapist detailing how much, much more time was needed to produce any effect; time was needed both to make the connections in thought and to identify and feeling.  Lots about understanding that silences might be a temporary withdrawal due to sensory overload and not a sign of resistance or non-compliance, that this was likewise the case for a battery of other behaviours, cautions about interpreting facial expression and body language without checking that out with the patient as they can be misinterpreted, and being specific with questions, allowing for the slow build up of detailed and logical ideas to get to an answer.  All very common sense stuff.

Personally, I'm sick to death of knocking myself out to be open about my thoughts and feeling and to do what is asked of me, only to be told I obviously don't want to co-operate, have all sorts of assumptions made about me and yet no one seem to be hearing what I AM saying.  I felt like I was talking for England and trying to be honest and give them all the information.  What I got was, "I don't see why you think I need all that detail" (...err because I can't see how the problem can be understood without it) and "tell me what you feel", (like I'm supposed to know just like that. If I knew I'd say.  Or sometimes I have said, but they seem to want some other answer and I've no clue what that is) the list goes on.  

It'll bug me till I find that article again now.

I certainly hope it helps to HAVE a diagnosis if you're hoping to get the right therapy.

Ohhh do you have a reading list? Sounds fascinating!

Nezumi said:

I think mental health is a conversation, not a be-all-that-ends-all diagnosis

You're right, I think.  It has to start by making you feel supported and adapt to need and we are all different. 

Having said that, I have read a good deal on the adaptations of assorted therapies for Autism because the thinking styles are so different.  I could be looking at a catalogue of their failures with me.  Not the be all and end all, for sure, but I don't think I can get any nearer a solution without it as a start point.

Nothing I guess.  Her main problem is that I wouldn't talk to her about ANYTHING for the remainder of my next 55 years. 

I think we have the same Mum.  I'm not going to ask her when I go for my assessment, she thinks exactly the same of me as yours does of you.  She seems to have forgotten or ignored everything negative about my childhood, I mean, they brought her in for parenting lessons because I cried all the time! 

I'm going to ask my Dad and my brother for their POVs instead.  My brother just accepts that I am autistic and will just tell the truth as he sees it, since he is my bridge to neurotypicals I can be confident with him.  My Dad is less knowledgeable but just as supportive and he has always noticed stuff that fits but just not known what it meant.

My point in the process is that I've had a first appointment with a psychiatrist who has diagnosed depression and PTSD, changed up my meds and recommended EMDR.  Since I have both of those things, along with anxiety, I'm happy to go along with that until I can guide myself to the right place to get a proper diagnosis.  I think mental health is a conversation, not a be-all-that-ends-all diagnosis, and you may have more than one counsellor or psychiatrist, occupational therapist and so on through your life.  Whether the actual diagnosis happens or not, the rest of it will still help as long as you participate in the process.

Hi - I don't know what film you're talking about - but Kevin is a Harry Enfield character - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLuEY6jN6gY

Dawn said:

I would talk to the wall, my mother thinks to the animals on my wall paper.  So, I'd talk to something that can't answer me back, but not a person?? 

Hahahaha! Love this! She probably just thought you were absolutely adorable. What's wrong with that??

Plastic Is this in reference to the Tilda Swinton film? I love her as an actress but the one about Kevin is the only one I haven't seen.

My son used to tell me everything was my fault and recently stated that I shouldn't just allow him to vent. I should 'whip him into shape' or respond harshly. He seemed mad. I had a think for an extra long minute and said No. I absolutely refuse. He can join a boxing club if he'd like to take a beating. He wouldn't respond well anyway, he would internalise and suffocate and feel far more alone than he already does.

And then I sort of broke down a little and tried to not express the really bad stuff I went through as a child. I refuse to be my mother. I already have her intensities in a way and characteristics are fine. I refuse to be cruel or have the taste of sh*t in my mouth. The world is harsh enough and I committed to being the one person he can feel safe around. It doesn't seem to be pushing him away. He loved me more for being a bit vulnerable as I rarely am.

I like explanations by analogies too

I agree this could use it's own thread and am also curious of the same. I think it's partly generational - many parents here being a product of the 70s and 80s unlike their parents who probably had more B&W guidelines for what their responsibilities were, living prior to  the kind of sensory overload we now have in chemically made scents, food, excruciating decibel levels and cheap engineering, digital screens and all kinds of unnatural sensory inputs, not to mention these grand steam-rollers of capitalism re-shaping society in a much more competitive fashion. The entertainment industry alone, though it probably has a great deal more ASD individuals in the 'Engineering Room' (as it were), has really shaped culture (mirroring back) in strange ways. Sometimes I think part of what we're all fighting is a society that believes the worst in one another rather than the better. 

But also some quality new-ness. Sorry for the analogies, sometimes it's easier to connect with similar memes mentally to explain a thing!

I wish all mothers were part of a safe space but sadly that isn't true.

Mothers tend to be more hands-on and are part of the safe space at home where it's ok to melt down, shout scream, break things, throw stuff about etc.    Mother is part of that safe space so is a legitimate target to vent at - or assault.

Teenagers tend to become overblown  "Kevin The Teenagers" so everything wrong in their life is mother's fault - "it's so unfair" so they eventually cut the mother out of their lives permanently as punishment.

This is another aspect that interests me greatly.  So many people here reporting difficult, distant or dysfunctional, even abusive relationships with parents, particularly mothers... I've had my agonies too and we were definitely estranged for a long time. It's creating so many questions in my mind... Are there common denominators for ASD here?  One to raise in itself later on the board and do a little research here, I think.

I'm so sorry you haven't been supported. 

Apparently my mother called me estranged before I realised we were, but I just tolerated her up till that moment. Then I'd had enough and now we don't speak. I had to look this term up. She also sent me a site full of 'grieving' parents with estranged children. I have to say, that site contained some of the most immature, irresponsible, entitled Parents I've ever come across. Humans who hadn't taken their roles and responsibilities as Parents seriously. It was a misery loves company forum and I don't like to put humans in that category. 

Sorry this is your experience. They're supposed to offer support. My father thinks I'm perfectly normal (we have close to the same temperament). My mother thinks I make far more money than I ever will and has all kinds of unspoken unreasonable demands even though she lives this luxurious lifestyle and rarely - if never - visits me. 

my mum didnt think I was autistic.

She was too ill at time to attend the diagnosis.

The assessment team said its OK ,  " That I was clearly on the spectrum".

a. because we had an neighbour with severe non verbal autism

b. and because she is ( I suspect ) autistic herself. 

c. my mum was highly protective and would allow anyone to say "bad" things about me,,,,  ever ! 

she raised me as "you are capable of anything, try everything, no boundaries, do it " type of person.

This strategy, on reflection, I believe worked really well, for me anyways.

best Mum ever

Yes, I'm going through the process and yes, if only I had recordings to go back and analyse my own speech, lol.  My mother is now 80, not in the best health and it's becoming difficult to keep her 'on topic' in a conversation these days, but her memory is pretty reliable.  Having filled in the developmental forms from my perspective, I'm now spending hours going through the questions again with her. I am mindful, that come the assessment, she may no longer be in a fit condition to participate.

I can't quite get at aspects of syntactic development with her. She wouldn't really get what that meant, but there are some aspects of her stories which have never added up; specifically that I used to stare intensely at people's mouths and silently copy the lip movements of a word, endlessly practicing before I would pick up the courage to say it. It was then bang on perfect and sounded adult first time out. Whereas most babies babble their way through all the phonemes, then are driven by the wish to communicate just start having a bash at words even if it's not quite there and I've never heard of one engaging in all that study, copy and deliberate practice.  Apparently, even though I would not yet address this new vocab to people (and social interaction is normally a primary driver), I would talk to the wall, my mother thinks to the animals on my wall paper.  So, I'd talk to something that can't answer me back, but not a person?? 

I also remember that I was bullied in school for sounding "posh".  The vocab was vast and I didn't use the local kid's slang, but more importantly, I have NO accent.  You can't place me anywhere socially or geographically.  That too has always been a head scratcher for me, I SHOULD have at least traces of the strong local accent, acquired from all that supposed socio-linguistic imperative to accord and build relationships with my peers. I don't.  Neither do I sound like my broad Geordie parents. And I've always known that's not usual, but could never explain it until I came across ASD people reporting the same thing linking it to Echolalia. Oh! There, I think, is my explanation.

So yeah, mum is proving to be an unwitting gold mine of information.  However, were she to be asked just simply 'did Dawn have difficulty learning to speak?', she'd just say 'no, she spoke early', with no way to know my processes were any different to any other baby.  I'd be interested to know if other people have reports of similar processes.  Perhaps, I'll post that as a question.