• Replies 20 replies
  • Subscribers 96 subscribers
  • Views 4354 views
  • Users 0 members are here
Options
Related
Hints and tips
  • To quote someone's message, first select/highlight the relevant text, and then use the Quote button that appears
  • To "mention" someone, type @ followed by the start of the forum name, and choose from the list; that person will get a notification of being mentioned

URGENT - Bus Pass and Learning Disability Issue!!! :(

urspecial

Hi,

As some of you may know I was diagnosed with ASD in 2009 by NHS CAMHS. The Consultant Child and Adolescent Psychiatrist referred to the ASD as a Learning Disability (LD), in the sense I have difficulties in learning in different aspects of my life and not soley in education.

My current Consultant Psychiatrist and she agrees with the LD statement made by my earlier Consultant; though I am High Functioning.

The current Consultant doesn't believe I apply to LD definition used within the Transport Act 2000. This is the law which governs the National English Concessionary Bus Pass for people with the defined disabilties.

My previous Consultant at CMHS agreed with the above definition and this helped me get the much needed bus pass originally.

The Act's definition of LD is "A state of arrested or incomplete physical development of the brain, which results in severe impairment of intelligence and social functioning" and you have an IQ less than 70).

 

I know on the NAS's website that for DLA purposes there is a similar defition used for Severe Mental Impairment (SMI) and that the NAS doesn't believe that IQ is an accurate tool to measure an autistic person's intelligance.

"People with autism may do well in abstract intelligence tests but sometimes cannot apply their intelligence in a useful way in the real world. An IQ test can give a misleading impression of 'useful intelligence'".

There is also some Case Law on this matter.

[Read More: http://www.autism.org.uk/living-with-autism/benefits-and-community-care/disability-living-allowance/ ].

I just don't know on how to convience my current Consultant on helping in my bus pass renewal. This is the last piece of evidance they require. I also don't get for two similar processess there is soo much discrepency in the laws.

The bus pass scheme would not only be benifical for people with ASD (all sides of the spectrum) but also those with Social Anxiety too.

 

I also have OCD and GAD but don't want to go down the mental health route as I'm not used to that and not comfortable with it.

 

The other option is that I try to convince my Consultant that Autism is also a Physical Disability (PD) as heighlighted by the same DLA thread.

The NAS has written that "Unable or virtually unable to walk because of a physical disability (autism is recognised as a physical disability because it is caused by an 'organic brain dysfunction'".

The NAS provide no further info on this or more evidance to back it up.

 

Any advice or sugesstions would be great Smile

  • What's the difference between a developmental disability and a learning disability? I'd say that the effect on the individual is approximately the same, and the ENCTS is for those with disabilities anyway.

    Also, when it comes to Employment Law the example given by the EHCR is of someone who struggles to understand instructions. (unfortunately at least one tribunal has ignored that guidance). At the very least that's a learning difficulty.

    Anyway, I might well have above average intelligence but my ability to be stupid in so many ways knows no bounds.

    I will let you all know how I get on.

  • But Aspergers is a developmental disability and not a learning disability. If it was a learning disability, your intelligence would be affected, which is one of the criteria.

  • According to https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/3621/travelconcession.pdf

    1.7 An eligible disabled person is someone who:

    a. Is blind or partially sighted 

    b. Is profoundly or severely deaf 

    c. Is without speech 

    d. Has a disability, or has suffered an injury, which has a substantial and longterm adverse effect on his or her ability to walk 

    e. Does not have arms or has long-term loss of the use of both arms 

    f. Has a learning disability, that is, a state of arrested or incomplete development 

    of mind which includes significant impairment of intelligence and social 

    functioning 

    g. Would, if he or she applied for the grant of a licence to drive a motor vehicle 

    under Part III of the Road Traffic Act 1988, have his/her application refused 

    pursuant to section 92 of the Act (physical fitness) otherwise than on the 

    ground of persistent misuse of drugs or alcohol.

    Obviously we are looking at the "f." reason - given that Asperger's Syndrome is a triad of impairments, ie

    • social communication
    • social interaction
    • social imagination.

    (http://www.autism.org.uk/about-autism/autism-and-asperger-syndrome-an-introduction/what-is-asperger-syndrome.aspx) 

    I would say that you definitely qualify. My Doctor returned my form claiming that Asperger's wasn't a learning disabillity - I will be replying pointing out that the criteria for eligibility is badly worded and it can't possibly mean that someone who has significantly low intelligence but has no social problems qualifies and someone with severe social problems but higher intelligence (ie Asperger's) doesn't. I'll also enclose the Asperger's Syndrome leaflet too.

  • I did very badly on the Ravens because I have a severe visual-spatial impairment.

  • IQ tests really only test how good a person is at doing IQ tests.

    The test usually used is the Wechsler which has different components in it some verbal, some non-verbal, some reasoning, arithmetic, memory, visual patterns, speed tests on linking items etc. etc. When they add up the scores they call it 'global intelligence'.

    What gets me about this in relation to Autism is that if a person doen't have much language then they will likely do poorly on the so called "non-verbal" as well as the verbal because although they use pictures, they require 'real world' knowledge, aquired through language.

    AS people can also score poorly due to not being good at speed tests, or having reduced "verbal working memory" (this is not the same as verbal ability).

    A test that is not used much now is "Raven's Progressive Matrices" which is not time limited and is about seeing the pattern in a small set of shapes and the questions get progressively harder.

    Most NTs score about the same on both but some Autistic people can be very low on the Wechsler but very high on the Ravens. Many ASs will score better on the Ravens unless you're one that has particularly good language skills.

  • [/quote]

    Same for me. (although the numbers might be different) Someone has tried to tell me this is a load of rubbish. My reading is below average due to my disabilities and many other things are "normal".

    One thing I would argue is that your IQ doesn't mean a lot and quite frankly, it's a silly measrurement to use when working out if someone has a learning disability.

    [/quote] 

    Again, all true from my experiance. IQ doesn't mean what you can actually do in practice.

    Smile 

  • hohner said:

    or as my brothers says, I am the smartest dumb person in the world  

      

    Laughing Money Mouth 

  • Hope said:

    You should be able to get a pass based on the difficulties that come from having autism alone.

      

    Unfortunatly not in my area as ASD and it's difficulties not ocvered by the Transport Act 2000, leading to local *cough, tighting hands, cough* interpretation.  

     

    Hope said:

    IQ is an interesting area. Verbally I am advanced (slightly above average intelligence - 112, the average is 100), but performance wise my  IQ is 68!!. So with regards to performance, I would have a 'learning disability', but verbally I am of above normal intelligence. I could not be given a global IQ due to this discrepancy, which is actually very common for people on the spectrum. We are often very good at some things, and very poor at others.

    Soo true, but I don't get what "Global IQ" is?

     

  • [/quote]

    Agreed.

    The unable to walk criteria is about being able (or not) being able to physically put one leg in front of the other and move. Autism isn't a physical disability which prevents you from doing this. Autism is a developmental disorder.

    [/quote]

    The NAS consider it a Physical Disability when it comes to the above example, as the anxiety/sensory issues etc stop or make it harder to walk *put one leg in front of other*

    Though of course meds side effects can have this issue too

     

    :)

    urspecial

  • Hope said:

    You should be able to get a pass based on the difficulties that come from having autism alone.

    IQ is an interesting area. Verbally I am advanced (slightly above average intelligence - 112, the average is 100), but performance wise my  IQ is 68!!. So with regards to performance, I would have a 'learning disability', but verbally I am of above normal intelligence. I could not be given a global IQ due to this discrepancy, which is actually very common for people on the spectrum. We are often very good at some things, and very poor at others.

    Same for me. (although the numbers might be different) Someone has tried to tell me this is a load of rubbish. My reading is below average due to my disabilities and many other things are "normal".

    One thing I would argue is that your IQ doesn't mean a lot and quite frankly, it's a silly measrurement to use when working out if someone has a learning disability.

  • quote "We are often very good at some things, and very poor at others.".. that is it in a nut shell, my doc says, gain and pain (Z curve I call it),. or as my brothers says, I am the smartest dumb person in the world,,, I get that.. The IQ is on the learning curve,, none stop expotential over time(mind), but this is just my understanding not coping reaction to the emotional world of high senses.

     

  • You should be able to get a pass based on the difficulties that come from having autism alone.

    IQ is an interesting area. Verbally I am advanced (slightly above average intelligence - 112, the average is 100), but performance wise my  IQ is 68!!. So with regards to performance, I would have a 'learning disability', but verbally I am of above normal intelligence. I could not be given a global IQ due to this discrepancy, which is actually very common for people on the spectrum. We are often very good at some things, and very poor at others.

  • SamF said:

    hi, dont know if this will help but did you know that you can get assessed by the driving vehicle licensing agency (dvla) that i always confuse with dla. dont know why. anyway if they assess  you as unable to drive due to disabilities then you are automaticaly entitled to a bus pass for life. then you dont need  to persuade  your consultant.

    Agreed.

    The unable to walk criteria is about being able (or not) being able to physically put one leg in front of the other and move. Autism isn't a physical disability which prevents you from doing this. Autism is a developmental disorder.

    If you're on medication for GAD / OCD and the side effects (such as drowsiness) make driving dangerous, you can apply for a bus pass based on that.

  • hohner said:

    cool,, there was many routes, your consultant could have taken,, instead of letting you go down a deadend road for so long...

    Interestly, the opposite is for me,, I can drive but can not take public transport, due to irrational people, noise and trapped feeling.

     

    I can get the trapped feelings on some occassions though hasn't happend for a while

    What other routes did you think of, the walking thing (as Autism can be classed as a physical disability etc)?

     

    urspecial

  • cool,, there was many routes, your consultant could have taken,, instead of letting you go down a deadend road for so long...

    Interestly, the opposite is for me,, I can drive but can not take public transport, due to irrational people, noise and trapped feeling.

  • Thank you for the comments,

    After discussing with my Consultant, we are going not fit to drive due to mental health route

     

    urspecial

  • hi, dont know if this will help but did you know that you can get assessed by the driving vehicle licensing agency (dvla) that i always confuse with dla. dont know why. anyway if they assess  you as unable to drive due to disabilities then you are automaticaly entitled to a bus pass for life. then you dont need  to persuade  your consultant.

  • Urspecial thanks for your nice comment, I find it is better just to be frank because long-term holding in emotional concerns does not help my condition. I have 40 years worth of cognitive emotional stress due to a late diagnosis and breakdown. Having Autism helps,,  I say to people "sorry, I OFFENDED you I have Autism you @!*&"  Wink 

    However, I have found that an understanding doctor is better than an outstanding doctor, because fighting yourself is not the path of least resistance, which is the wise comfort line.

    Put your doctor on the spot and write to them and tell him/her you need the pass to function, ask the doctors practice boss for a second opinion.  I can't see what the problem is on this one ?

     

  • hohner said:

    the doc is a dickhead, you have more than enough grounds,,, social isolation with GAD, OCD and Aspergers. Find another body who can sign the form. I know of people who are just ex-junkies and alcoholics who get a travel pass.

     

    Lol your comment's made my day Laughing Laughing 

    She's an outstanding doctor usually but she's being really difficult on this matter

     

    Thanks for replying :)

  • the doc is a ********, you have more than enough grounds,,, social isolation with GAD, OCD and Aspergers. Find another body who can sign the form. I know of people who are just ex-junkies and alcoholics who get a travel pass.