If you are working, what careers are you in?

I’m 

Yeah it can be really tough for a number of reasons. Even just sensory wise sometimes can be too much. The good thing is they do seem keen to support me which is definitely a positive!

Thank you! I appreciate that. I must admit it is extremely difficult for a number of reasons but I do the best I can

Mark (NicheMarket) said:

But I just can't gain any insight into this power and status thing

I've concluded it's from a very primal reproduction-powered drive - to have the best partner, the best nest, the most resources, more / better food, more offspring, better territory, better job title, more money, more underlings, more power etc.  

It's a really basic drive that they absolutely cannot control..   They will take it by force if they need to - or use their politics & social skills to 'monkey branch' their way to the top.

It's funny, cos in a way she was saying "I don't want to give a ***!" Sadly though she did well for a while she seems well caught up in the game again:(. But yes, a nice validation for me, and nice she told me.

What!?!

Alright, WOW.

I’m not actually surprised by that, I have to say. But it’s  just such an amazing thing for you to be able to carry that memory through the rest of your life.

Right on! Congrats!

Elizabeth

Elizabeth, sometimes I'm conscious of how cool the AS mind can be. I am proud I've carved a good life, even if there are bits that don't work. There was one colleague at work who on her annual review on being asked on her desired direction replied that "I want to be like Nichemarket."

Plastic Whilst I can be pretty AS on lots of things, I still find I can analyse NTs motivations, behaviours, actions, egoes, thoughts etc really well. But I just can't gain any insight into this power and status thing, I'm just left with an empty mind when I try to think what it means. But I think it'd be useful to understand given I "manage" people. And well I'm curious, it's like the thing I least get. I've been trying to find a book on it but got nowhere.

PS. Yes, I think some teaching and university staff members are simply better at rationally assessing how to be happier.

Then I think members of a subset of that group (5% - 10% or fewer of that group in my work setting, anyway) take action to pursue that happiness, understanding that by doing so, they are taking risks and also possibly quietly ticking off their supervisors. That’s where the risk can really come in - a supervisor can of course refuse to give a good reference.

I count myself, with relief, as a part of that tiny sub-group, because wellness matters more to me than status or money. 

Yay to honest and super cool discussions like this, by the way.

Elizabeth

Hi, Niche:

What an incredible story! And a true story, at that!

I am dictating this on the iPad and not rereading our correcting anything spelling or grammar-ish, so please forgive the mistakes. :-)

Yes, I think status means a lot to our coworkers. I can only speak for my experiences here in the Canadian public school K-12 educational system, but here, teachers care a great deal about whether they have a tenured contract.

And in fact, within the teaching community, there is a very real social hierarchy, based on someone’s contract type. There are of course teachers for whom that doesn’t matter at all, but it seems to me that the “power players“ among the teacher group care about contract type a great deal.

And within that subset, there are a group of teachers who have usually aspired to become administrators quite early in their careers, and they do so as quickly as they can.

Their work as administrators then perpetuates the social status emphasis on tenured contracts, I have found, as a relative latecomer to teaching having done social work prior to entering this career, I have been really surprised and disappointed at how top down and contract type-centric the teaching profession is.

I have been equally if not more surprised and disappointed to see how much fear of administration teachers have in their day to day work lives, and how even tenured teachers are fearful of their administrators.

That absolutely no sense to me, particularly given that we are unionized, regardless of our contract type, and that we have job security either for the years of our contracts or for our permanent careers as tenured employees. It’s just a bizarre situation but of course most administrators foster this reality because their supervisors, all the way up to superintendents of school divisions, set the tone. I have noticed that when school principals’ supervisors attend at school for walk-throughs or meetings, the school principals often look terrified. (?)

I have found that by never sending out any signals of fear, administrators treat me well and leave me to do my job. I have privately said to colleagues – those to whom I am closest - that if teachers send out signals of being vulnerable and fearful, those around them will pick up on that and treat them in the way they are advertising they should be treated, however subconsciously. 

So yes, I think teachers, at least here in Canada, care about status. And for what it’s worth, because my sister and brother-in-law are university professors, I’ve read quite a bit about the dynamic in the university system and it seems far worse for profs and lecturers. Here in Canada, universities have shifted the majority of their teaching needs to low paid contract lecturers (Ph.D.s) who are paid abusively low rates. 

I have found that about 1/2 of the administrators for whom I work seem put off by my lack of fear. I notice what I believe are small signs of it, nothing overt, but those administrators also tend to just leave me be, which is fine with me. Knock wood, have always emerged with good references after my contracts ended, and I’m grateful for that.

I am super inspired by your living fearlessly within that position you were describing, at the University. I’m sure your colleagues were grateful to know you and have your thoughts and advice.

I’m actually at a crossroads now where my school has let me know they want to keep me on for the next school year, in my current position, but I am not sure I want to remain in this position. I keep going back-and-forth in my own mind about what to do. I find, however, that ultimately what I meant to do becomes very clear to me, if I just quietly wait for the definitive answer to arrive in my thoughts and heart.

Thanks for being such a great part of this website, by the way. Have a super day and hello from the currently cold land over here. 

Elizabeth

Mark (NicheMarket) said:

Or does status actually mean something to them

It is EVERYTHING to them,. 

It was a life saving insight. I'd been in post 2 years (permanent cos it's impossible to recruit in my area so tenure was easy) and I wasn't happy. I was ready to leave, there were too many conflicting and exhausting demands. I decided to not do my usual and leave and try and incremently improve it.

So I thought about who was happy in my job in my dept and I'd copy them. I went down the corridor one by one in my mind. No one was happy in the way I'd want to be happy, but out of 35 I felt 2 or 3 were doing well. I thought about them. What they had was that their egoes, maybe identities, weren't caught up in their role. I realised my problem was my ego, I'd got caught in the university politics power game. I had no intrinsic interest so dropped to 60% immediately, then 50% the next year, and then fought a difficult negotiation to move from the research track to the teaching track. I had to threaten to leave. But immediately in the teaching track there's no status, not an easy career, etc. I was blissfully free! I was happy for about 10 years but did lose interest as it was hard to find novelty without chasing status roles. Then I was inspired to do my new job.

It was odd how many people were envious of my bliss, would talk to me about it, about switching track, but they couldn't do it (except one). Are we more rational and can assess how to be happy better? Or does status actually mean something to them Elizabeth???

Hi, NicheMarket:

Regarding what you said, “I also didn't care about a career, status, promotion so didn't get caught up in the research game...”:

That really rang true and struck a positive chord with me. Thanks for sharing it. I felt liberated when I decided not to care about having a permanent contract (tenure) as a teacher here in our Canadian school system. I make the same money as tenured teachers, I have the same pension, the same benefits, etc. The only difference is that I work contracts of one year at a time. This decision has liberated me from school politics or working in fear, which a lot of teachers here do.

Elizabeth

Retail is a tough environment. How are you coping with furlough, if you don't mind me asking? I hope that you have a fun new routine. I'm having to self-isolate for a few days after a colleague tested positive and so far my "routine" is mostly forums like this one and tramping around the garden listening to audiobooks. My autistic husband has a fantastic ability to do things at the same time each day.

I need to go on a laptop to see messages I think so sorry if I haven't replied...

Wow, I thought that A level maths was quite complicated enough though I did enjoy learning about the proof for differentiation. I'm currently a volunteer for local animal organisations and love my feathered and furry (and slimy etc) neighbours.

I did a degree in Maths, Statistics and Operational Research.

I worked as an operational researcher which suited me as it was a desk job processing numbers with other number types. I did data analysis, artificial intelligence and risk analysis. Looking back it surprises me how NT these spaces were, but we were all busy number crunching so it was quiet.

I then worked as a university lecturer teaching this. That worked as you get an office on your own and there's limited meetings orexpectation to be social. Lectures are quite easy compared to classrooms, and it's easier being the lecturer than in the group. Universities are high stress environments though. I was ok cos I worked 2.5 days and spread it over 3 or 4 so I had lots of recovery time. I also didn't care about a career, status, promotion so didn't get caught up in the research game whete the stress comes from. Unis apparently have lots of ASs there.

Now I work as a manager for an Animal Freedom group. It's more tiring, but it's purposeful and a passion, and we seem to recruit quiet types! I think we're approx 50% or more undiagnosed, haha! There's lots of ASs in Animal Protection groups. 

Yeah, I work in tech and work from home - also when lock-down is not upon us. I love it. Also, I've been lucky enough to find a neuro-divergent boss, which makes communication so much easier. In my experience, it is less about what you do and more about who you do it with. The environment is everything for me to excel. 

A staffroom sounds horrendous. I've worked in places before where there were canteens where breaks had to be taken, full of chit chat and I was always getting into trouble for getting back late from breaks because I didn't know how to excuse myself from conversations that I had somehow got involved in. I'm glad that it sounds as though attendance is optional :-) Escaping through those locked doors does sound like a vote for freedom of choice and liberty :-) though not good for safeguarding. I've had a thought that perhaps I could ask to do teacher training just in schools with autism units etc to avoid scary neurotypical classrooms. Have a great day and take very good care of yourself x

That’s awesome that you are a police officer, San. It brightened my day to think that there’s a police officer out there with autism. :-) Thanks for taking care of the community.

Elisabeth