autism and agression

Hope said:

Intentional aggression, however, involves planning and the ability to manipulate others, through aggression, in order to get them to do something you like. People with autism have impaired Theory of Mind and executive functioning difficulties, and this means that malice and psychopathy are very rare in the autistic population.

I think 'agression' is the wrong term here. What you're talking about is 'violence'. And this is an important distinction to make - violence may be aggressive, but aggression isn't always violent, and violence isn't always agressive.

Psychopaths are often, perhaps even generally, violent without being agressive.

Hi someone,

Think I know what you're getting at. Yes your question does bring out the defensive!

However, iwould like to get to the bottom of it too. I am the softest, non-confrontational pacifist ever, but.... I have been aggressive and I know I'm likely to be aggressive again. I've hurt people, I hate myself for it and I don't know exactly why I 've done it. I've been physically beaten to pieces myself and found it perfectly reasonable but cannot justify hurting someone else. Only answer I can see is I've hurt people as a way of communicating - can't explain this - but it's like "I'm backed into a corner and I'm really scared and this is what it feels like"  

Quote Easy

Speaking personally I am not aggressive at all, and never have been.

Agression invites attention, noise , fuss and social complexity,

so its just totally unappealing to me.

Also struggling for social dominance or control is alien to my personality.

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Ditto

It is hard to say whether it is the autism or other factors that make some people with Autism aggressive. We have to remember that autism affects people in many different ways, because the autism intersects with our core personality, upbringing, environment and other co-existing problems like anxiety, depression etc. Scorpian0x17 is right about the fight and flight response; we all respond to stress differently. Some fight (aggression) others run away from the situation, both literally and figuratively. Autistic aggression is often without intent, even 'mindless'. When in the heat of a tantrum, we can be almost blinded by a fog of pure emotion, unable to restrain ourselves. And, it is true, this has been linked to frontal lobe malfunction. Intentional aggression, however, involves planning and the ability to manipulate others, through aggression, in order to get them to do something you like. People with autism have impaired Theory of Mind and executive functioning difficulties, and this means that malice and psychopathy are very rare in the autistic population.

NAS5794 said:

It looks like you misunderstood me, some one. I wasn't "getting defensive", nor was I implying that the opinions you expressed were your own. I also understood that you were merely discussing a possible link between autism and aggression, but I found it difficult to take any approach other than the one I did. Aspie thinking, I suppose.

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as you say, you abhor violence, quite right, but you also said did frequently attack others, that is th eissue, not whether you like it or not, and not whether you do it more than anyone else or not, but whether you feel YOUR agression is connected to your being autistic

I've read this paragraph several times and still can't quite get my head around it, so I'll answer the question I think you're asking and then you can tell me if I'm talking  absolute nonsense.

When I was 4 or 5, I was very aggressive, and it's possible it was linked to my autism. Then again, it could have been because that's what a lot of children do: go to school to practise their warrior skills and then go home and flutter their eyelashes.

But now, at age 17, I could never hurt anyone, and even the thought that I might have upset someone tortures me to the point where I can't sleep. Watching the news makes me anxious because I know I'll probably hear about all the people who've been murdered today. I long for a world of peace. Is this linked to my autism? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe being punished as a child just had a huge effect on me.

no, i totally understand that, its the exact same as what im doing, we all interprate things our own way

i appreciate your thought into the question, thats all im asking for, people not to as many do judge the question without answering it, but think about it, try to be unbiased while using their own experiences

i tottally get what you are saying here but practicing 'warrior skills' is a very diffrent thing to not being able to control yourself having a meltdown or stress related attack which results in lashing out, sometimes with violence, thats my point, not having a standard human agression, ,but mainly the inability to control it and why and how it happens

for me its a simple issue of both autistic experiences, inability to express the way nts do and of course a biological issue of the frontal lobes, to me i have seen a link, i want to learn what it is, why, and despite how many take this issue i actually want to help autistics with it, which seems like a given as i love my partner

i see a link, im not the only person who sees it, but so few are willing to talk about it, even when the signs and facts are there

no one is saying autism CAUSES agresson but some do want to help find the link and see if we can help it for us and autistics

i personally dont see anything wrong in that and think it will only benefit us all in the long run

Scorpion0x17 said:

Agression is part of the fight or flight response and is often a reaction to stress.

That is all there is too it.

Looking for any more than that is just over complicating matters.

ok, thanks

Agression is part of the fight or flight response and is often a reaction to stress.

That is all there is too it.

Looking for any more than that is just over complicating matters.

Scorpion0x17 said:

I'm struggling to understand what the point of this is, some one.

Is this not like asking whether liking Thomas The Tank Engine is connected to Autism?

Just because something is more apparent in someone Autistic it does not mean that it's connected to their Autism.

Or, in other words, NTs are agressive too, but no one would ask "Is agression connected to being neurotypical?"

Agression is connected to being a human animal.

i made it clear this was a touchy subject.im aware of the fact a lot of peopel do not like to connect these issues

however

i have personal experience, views and opinions, not everyone will agree 

the point, as you say, is that my experiences have led me to have certain knowledge and opinons and id like to know others experiences, knowledge and opinons on it

as i think, as i said, it is something that needs to be discussed

i would then ask, why would you not ask is agression connected to being neurotypical?

my point is if thats is a possiblity, then why not persue it? i think its better to know the facts of our behaviour and biology than do what i see a lot doing, distancing, with no real argument as to why its distanced, when there is any  evidence to suggest at least a (even if small) connection

being with an autistic partner has meant i had to be willing to accept other possiblites and information i might not want to or like this is just one of those pices of information and possiblites i am open to

i have never claimed otherwise, im aware of what being an animal is and what it means

 but that doesnt change that there will be different reasons for every persons/and disorders, behaviour, and that understanding those is better and healthier and more helpful to soceity and the individuals with the disorder than trying to distance from the possiblites or information

NAS5794 said:

Well, my dad, who's never been diagnosed but we're convinced I take after him, can be aggressive. He has low self-esteem and a tendency to take offence at the drop of a hat. I am scared of him, and freeze whenever he talks to me.

I, as a very young child, was very easily annoyed and would frequently attack other children, including my sister. Now I'm the complete opposite - I abhor violence and I've learned not to be annoyed by the little, unimportant mistakes people make. That's probably because I have a huge guilt complex and remember many of the times I was told off.

I think it's an unfair stereotype to say that autism makes people aggressive. Aggression can be brought on by many, many things, and autism may or may not be one of them. Correlation proves nothing.

again, i have never said there is no agression in anyone OTHER than autistics, i find this is what happens a lot when this subject is broached, peopel get defensive rather than look at the subject matter. 

the issue is autism and agression not is autism the sole cause of aggression in humans, if it were that id say that.

this isnt about 'steryotyping' it is about the truth, the truth is just the truth, its not a steryotype, if somethngs true and makes people seem steryotyped, shpould it then be ignored as truth?, i dont like that idea personally but i see it a lot, especially with this issue and th epossiblites surrounding it

as you say, you abhor violence, quite right, but you also said did frequently attack others, that is th eissue, not whether you like it or not, and not whether you do it more than anyone else or not, but whether you feel YOUR agression is connected to your being autistic

if its not, why not? what is it that then caused it? what stopped it? if you dont think its autism related then youd obviously have an idea of the answers to that, so is it ok if i ask for you to give us the answers?

i want to get to the bottom of it same as i bet most people do 

Easy said:

Speaking personally I am not aggressive at all, and never have been.

Agression invites attention, noise , fuss and social complexity,

so its just totally unappealing to me.

Also struggling for social dominance or control is alien to my personality.

 

 

very intresting reply here from you easy agression invites too much noise and social complexity,very true 

and i like your comment about social dominance and control, my partner is the same he just doesnt care about that at all.

Speaking personally I am not aggressive at all, and never have been.

Agression invites attention, noise , fuss and social complexity,

so its just totally unappealing to me.

Also struggling for social dominance or control is alien to my personality.

I'm struggling to understand what the point of this is, some one.

Is this not like asking whether liking Thomas The Tank Engine is connected to Autism?

Just because something is more apparent in someone Autistic it does not mean that it's connected to their Autism.

Or, in other words, NTs are agressive too, but no one would ask "Is agression connected to being neurotypical?"

Agression is connected to being a human animal.

hohner said:

Autism aggression has been linked to lack of testosterone levels(not to much as commonly thought), it is actually a panic coping reaction to the environment, it is not real aggression as with the psychopathic nature. So maybe increasing testosterone naturally will assist. Interesting Vit D does this and that also has been shown to be at low levels in Autism.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/how-to-increase-testosterone-naturally/#axzz2FHC7ujKy

Also suger drops the testosterone level, seems there is a loop thing going on here.

 

 i understand what you are saying but agression is agression, its the effects of agression onothers that define it, not specifically why or how its different to other forms of agression, everone has a reason for being agressive, but its still agression

the issue is can autism lead to autistics to become agressive and or violent towards themselves and others, and in many stories here, it can

i do think diet makes a difference but you can't force someone to eat things you know will help or stop eating things that make them worse , i've tried

i just find it difficult to understand why some have a problem accepting this, we cant change it if we dont , we need to ignore the steryotyping and rubbish and just deal with what IS rather than what others are thinking about it

Hope said:

We are all individuals with different personalities, which our autism can intensify. We react to stress in different ways. Some of us lash out, while others retreat into themselves and attempt to block out the world, entering a trance like state. We can also change over time and in different contexts.

When younger, I had frequent and intense tantrums that occurred when a special interest was denied or a routine was changed. The tantrum meant that I would scream, throw things, and I once even hit my Mum. I regret this now.

I still sometimes have tantrums, but they are not as extreme, and I can be reasoned with in a way that I could not be before. My empathy has grown as I have got older. However, I have never been an intentionally violent person, and it pains me greatly to see physical suffering, and actually makes me want to cry. Is this a form of empathy? But I struggle to relate to other people's feelings, particularly if I have not experienced it myself.

I do not think that people with Autism are any more malicious or intentionally aggressive than any other demographic group, unless we also have a personality disorder. The media often misrepresents us as prone to aggression, sadly perpetuating negative sterotypes which often portray us as cold and heartless - rubbish of course.

yes i think so  my partner is going through it as well, hes develpoing an 'empathy' which he didnt have before, just because its not quite the same empathy as nts doesnt mean its not empathy

see, im not talking about media, everyone focus on media, i dont, because im not media, and nor is my partner, or every other story on here which is related to autism and agression, media may demonise many things'people, but they re irrelevant

for me whats relvant is the facts, which we know most tabloid media isnt good at reporting, so i dont even count them in this issue as relevant

the issue is purely can autistics become violent and is it related TO autism or autistic based symptoms and with a lot of the stories on here and elsewhere, it does seem to exist

no one (here) is  saying autistics are MORE anything, but they are LESS able to control, cope with and importantly EXPRESS their stress/frustration, thats an autistic trait

its a biological issue, the frontal lobe is where the so called 'higher functioning' happens, the emotional and social functioning, and THAT as we all know is what autism affects

Autism aggression has been linked to lack of testosterone levels(not to much as commonly thought), it is actually a panic coping reaction to the environment, it is not real aggression as with the psychopathic nature. So maybe increasing testosterone naturally will assist. Interesting Vit D does this and that also has been shown to be at low levels in Autism.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/how-to-increase-testosterone-naturally/#axzz2FHC7ujKy

Also suger drops the testosterone level, seems there is a loop thing going on here.

We are all individuals with different personalities, which our autism can intensify. We react to stress in different ways. Some of us lash out, while others retreat into themselves and attempt to block out the world, entering a trance like state. We can also change over time and in different contexts.

When younger, I had frequent and intense tantrums that occurred when a special interest was denied or a routine was changed. The tantrum meant that I would scream, throw things, and I once even hit my Mum. I regret this now.

I still sometimes have tantrums, but they are not as extreme, and I can be reasoned with in a way that I could not be before. My empathy has grown as I have got older. However, I have never been an intentionally violent person, and it pains me greatly to see physical suffering, and actually makes me want to cry. Is this a form of empathy? But I struggle to relate to other people's feelings, particularly if I have not experienced it myself.

I do not think that people with Autism are any more malicious or intentionally aggressive than any other demographic group, unless we also have a personality disorder. The media often misrepresents us as prone to aggression, sadly perpetuating negative sterotypes which often portray us as cold and heartless - rubbish of course.