Published on 12, July, 2020
I'm looking for some advice on how to cope better with my mother in law who I have suspected as having some sort of Autism since I met her more than a decade ago (she's now in her 70s). As far as I am aware, she has never sought a diagnosis - but sometimes I feel like she might be aware that she is different to other people. As for my husbands family - there is a mix in terms of who does and does not think she does. My husband is reluctant to talk about it, I think he thinks I'm being nasty for suggesting it, even when I say that a diagnosis might help us understand her better. For my husbands immediate family; I guess it's what they're all used to so they just block it out and then occasionally get very angry with her when her behaviour tips into the unmanageable. My FIL has a strange ability to act almost as if she isn't there at all.
The reason I'm looking for some advice on here now is that we now spend a lot more time with my MIL now my husband and I have children of our own. And to be honest, I now dread the times we see her. I find myself becoming incredibly anxious because I feel trapped - I'm acutely aware it's not my place to 'manage' the conversation (on any topic, nevermind bringing up one on Autism) but it feels like everyone is in a constant state of stress the whole time she is there.
I understand that she herself is probably finding the situation difficult - and that's why we see such an intensive display of some of the most challenging communication behaviour i.e. repeatedly telling the same very long detailed stories with no narrative (but packed full of pointless detail) using the exact same phasing/ words/ sentences and even the same strange intonations on some of the specific words. She's incredibly bright and has a fantastic memory for facts and details. In this example - she will often continue even if you remind her she's already told you the story and she will often launch into it even if people are already having a conversation about something completely unrelated. If you try and continue the conversation you were having she will just tend to continue and speak even more loudly (often she will basically start shouting). If she's not telling one of these stories - she'll often parrot (pick out a word you've just said and repeat it) but she'll do this continuously the whole time someone is speaking and it's incredibly distracting.
I don't know if this sounds like I'm being unreasonable (dangerous question to ask on a forum) - but it's just non-stop. I honestly don't think we've ever had a conventional conversation in the time I've known her as she is just constantly stuck on transmit. I know she doesn't read social cues, but even if you try and tell her/ redirect her - its like she cant hear you. I'm of course happy to listen to any stories she has (and often do, including the repeated ones) but how can we manage to spend time together as a family without her dominating the airwaves all of the time? She is also desperately keen to looking after my todder on her own, but some of her behaviours can be so erratic I'm not convinced my child would be safe. How do I say no in a way she will understand/ listen?
MINE TOO!!! It's like we have the same MIL. I've known mine 12 years and she still only knows surface-level facts. On top of that, she blames ME for the fact that she doesn't know me. I listen endlessly to her bizarre rambling, but when I try to speak, she acts like I never said anything. She will look insulted when I speak, even when I'm praising her. I know exactly what you mean about feeling "belittled, unimportant, and disoriented about reality". I feel weirdly sleepy and suffocated in her presence.
Hello all. Just to say it's such a relief to read these comments. I'm in the same boat - it's almost bizarre how similar what you report is to how my MIL (undiagnosed autistic) acts. I'll add more later but wanted to say thank you. I'm very sorry for what you've all gone through. "Shattering and hard not to take personally" is exactly my experience. I'm really sorry that someone else has had to endure this but somehow relieved I'm not totally alone. Thank you for posting.
Hello fellow DILs of possible Asperger MILs.
I’m living in Australia and have been married to my husband 10 years . His mother has never asked me anything about myself in the 12 years I’ve known her. She bails me up for a very long time and only talks about herself, how much money she has saved on her electricity bill by using off peak times to cook and shower , how much money she has in the bank , how for she is and what’s on special at the grocery store and depressing stories about rape and murder on the news .
When my first child was born , he would babble to get her attention and she’d ignore him and instead be obsessing about her superannuation fund on the computer .
it’s very similar to what you ladies have described. In the first year of marriage I tried to be a good wife but in the second year my mum passed away while I was pregnant and I was craving a maternal figure , nurturing and kindness (my mother was a super warm , caring , generous person who was a mother to me , my cousins and my school friends growing up) . I told her my mum was such a beautiful caring person and that she and my grandma had a way of helping people in need , she said “Well she can’t help you if she’s dead”and went on to rub it in that my Mum should have been more concerned about looking out for herself . After taking her abrasive remarks for the last 9 years since Mum died (eg Once your mother is dead , that’s it . No one cares about you “, I have progressively cut off from her . We moved 35 minutes away and changed schools , got an intercom so I can see if she’s showing up on our doorstep unbounded and call my hubby . My MIL seems to have a crossover of Asperger’s traits and some narcissistic traits . When I think of her as Asperger’s , I have a much kinder outlook on her but thinking that there’s malice in it only serves to make me a hurt .
I think if she had a label and a diagnosis I wouldn’t take her comments as personally. I work with Aitostic people as a swim teacher and I know they need simple language, clarity , reenforcement etc but when you expect that you a talking to a respected elder , family member and expect a certain emotional and relational connection and are met with brutal comments , it’s shattering and hard not to take it personally .
Hi! I also found your reply very comforting. Sorry for what you’ve gone through. Thank you for sharing.
Hi there! THIS IS MY MIL!!! It’s SO weird to know I’m not alone. I’ve known her for 12 years and she doesn’t know ANYTHING about me other than my job, where my mother lives and ta hobby of mine. She can’t stand when I have anything to say and will interrupt or speak over me loudly. Even if I do get something through, I can see her eyes glaze over OR if I’ve had to interrupt her she appears startled and insulted. Either way, she goes right back to telling her saaaaaaame story or new story, both full of details that just absolutely drain me. One of MANY times, I was stuck in the backseat of a car with her while the 4 of us went somewhere and I kid you not she rambled on AT ME about Windsor chairs (her latest obsession). As usual, it was hard to tell when I could even try to ask a question bc there’s not break in her sentences, even breathing is hard to pick up on. My husband and FIL always either stoke her long winded blabberings or leave me to deal with her myself. Despite the dread of visiting, I STILL am polite and listen each time bc she doesn’t have any friends at ALL, but it’s so rude and selfish I’ve begun to resent her over the years. She usually means well, but that’s the thing! It’s so confusing! The only way I can describe her interactions with me at the time is BIZARRE. I’ve begun to think there’s got to be something not quite right bc it’s so illogical and unkind; NO ONE treats others like a recording machine unless somethings off. I often feel belittled, unimportant, and disoriented about reality (if that makes sense) when with her. It’s just shocking to me. I’ve suspected Autism, which is fine! But, she doesn’t seem to have melt downs, so I’ve been unsure. She’s a Brit living here in the States and never shows negative emotion with me. I assumed it was how she was raised. All I want are answers so I can have more understanding and patience. Perhaps, even connect with her more in a way SHE needs. Your post popped up on Google and it was just what I needed to hear. Very comforting. I can’t believe it’s not just my experience. Thank you!
I have the same problem with my FIL, it is actually relieving to read your story and relate. I handled it for 20 years. I tried and tried. My MIL said repeatedly so many hurtful things, and the stories every time we met, she told them like she thought I have never heard them before. With details. Just as you described. I struggled and listened and wanted to be a loved as a DIL. When my MIL started at family gatherings my husband and our children went somewhere else in our or their home, but I stayed and listend, trying to be kind and patient, even she told me things and stories that were like knives hitting me. Last year after a stressful time at work due to the pandemic (I work as a physician) and a teenage son with difficulties in school, I became severely sick with heart problems and anxiety. Then it was enough for me. I had to change my life. I loved my husband who was and still is very supportive. I decided to divorce my MIL. It was a great decision. No more. I couldnt take it. We have announced we cant have familygatherings anymore at our house (we blame it on my working conditions) and I never follow anymore my husband when he goes to his parents. I want him to have a great relationship with them and I want him and the kids to visit them often. But I dont follow. My FIL thinks its due to stress at work and the need for me to rest. Its not true (the job situation is much better now) but its for the best they believe this. I have changed for the better since. More energy. Less hurt. Life is to short to spend time with people who constantly hurt you. To divorce my MIL was one of the best decisions I have ever done. I gave it 20 years.
She studies a postgraduate certificate in counselling to try and give her a bit of confidence and to help her with her emotions.
She doesn't like to work and he ignores her a lot of the time so the impression I get is, its easier for her to stay with him, especially as she's been abused all her life. It's heartbreaking to see as she's such a lovely woman.
NAS64532 said: maybe I’ll try an email with an itinerary and meals (food is one of the biggest issues when we meet up). But try not to enter into a discussion or just make suggestions that she feels like she needs to reply/ do anything.
If you're trying to find a way that works for both of you, instead of making changes and hoping they work shouldn't you approach you MIL about this first to see if it the plan is suitable? You could text her about your idea and ask her if she thinks it'll work, that way she can have a think about it as she isn't required to respond on the spot.
NAS64532 said:In the past I know my husband has tried to give her guidance on how to socialise better - but I think, as plastic describes so well, she just gets so over excited/ stressed that she always reverts back to how she is.
As a teacher, I don't think its anything to do with being excited and stressed. Its more to do with the lack of support she is being provided with and it was only mentioned once and then forgotten about so it was easiee to revert back to her old self. The MIL will need constant re-enforcement, encouragement and praise to help her change behaviour she has been practising for 70 years.
You could possibly just quietly mention to her that you see her get very stressed when everyone is visiting her - and ask is there anything you could do to make it easier for her?
A big problem is from childhood we're taught not to make a fuss and not complain and be on best (false) behaviour with company - it becomes automatic and inappropriate but it's so deeply programmed that it's hard to switch it off and be just ourselves.
Thank you for this response - I think as I replied above to Plastic maybe I’ll try an email with an itinerary and meals (food is one of the biggest issues when we meet up). But try not to enter into a discussion or just make suggestions that she feels like she needs to reply/ do anything.
I honestly wish I could sit down with her and just talk bluntly about everything - my own family are very blunt/to the point. You always know what everyone thinks of you/ choices you’re making! In the past I know my husband has tried to give her guidance on how to socialise better - but I think, as plastic describes so well, she just gets so over excited/ stressed that she always reverts back to how she is.
Interesting! She is a fan of email (even though she can and does text) and absolutely loves a letter. Explains why I have received some strange letters over the years explaining in detail her feelings on a topic I had long since forgotten we’d spoken about. We’re all (including 1 brother in law and family) meeting up next weekend at her house so the perfect opportunity to try and send an email before with an outline of plans etc.
NAS50301 said:If we're in a four he directs the conversation at my OH, cutting off me and the MIL off as if we spoke it would mean us talking across them. He also talks over me when I'm talking and it comes across as though he needs to blurt out a social script. Plus, he will drink-drive even if he's only going out for lunch as he's dependant on alcohol to cope with socialising.
Yes! This is exactly what it’s like. My MIL will often drink (and a bit too much) to compensate. Although is never the driver so doesn’t cause issue there. It’s so difficult - trying not to put your partner in an even more difficult position. Although I guess he is one step removed as it’s a step father and not a direct parent - so slightly less emotionally explosive?
How has your MIL dealt with it all?
NAS64532 said:how can we manage to spend time together as a family without her dominating the airwaves all of the time? She is also desperately keen to looking after my todder on her own, but some of her behaviours can be so erratic I'm not convinced my child would be safe. How do I say no in a way she will understand/ listen?
The thing with autistics is were as diverse as our NT counterparts. I'd hate the extra text conversations (they'd cause me a lot of anxiety) and if there's an issue I need the effected individuals to be direct with me. I'm not able to read through the lines to pick up issues and I absolutely hate conversations where people skirt around a problem.
If I don't know a problem exists and why its a problem there's nothing I can do about it. As such, if I was Granny I'd prefer for you to sit down with me and tell me straight that you felt uncomfortable in social situations for x y and z. I'd also like you to point out in future interactions if you were feeling uncomfortable and why.
NAS64532 said:I’ve previously just tried to listen politely, or sometimes ignore her if she’s being rude/ talking over people.
I'm autistic but am also in a similar situation to you as the step grandad is undiagnosed autistic.
If we're in a four he directs the conversation at my OH, cutting off me and the MIL off as if we spoke it would mean us talking across them. He also talks over me when I'm talking and it comes across as though he needs to blurt out a social script. Plus, he will drink-drive even if he's only going out for lunch as he's dependant on alcohol to cope with socialising.
Being autistic I'm very aware that although he struggles with social situations this doesn't give him a free pass to be rude and to put others lives at risk with driving over the limit.
In the past, his wife has made him aware of how is actions make others feel and even left him for a while due to how he makes her feel. For example, when he talks over her she feels incredibly disrespected. Now his behaviour's causing difficulties with Granny seeing our child (I avoid their house) I've tried to go through my husband and have asked him to explain to his step dad how he makes me feel. Unfortunately, he hasn't been willing to do this. I haven't attended any gatherings for the last 3 months as his behaviour makes my blood boil. When I do see him again I am going to explain in the moment how I feel about his behaviour. E.g when you say 'Ste, did you see xxx' this doesn't work as you've specifically said you only want Paul to reply and as your talking across me it stops me and Pat from being able to talk, which makes me feel excluded and your behaviour comes across as being rude'
If he doesn't change, I've told my OH that I'll see him for birthdays and Christmas's for the sake of our daughter but I want go to anything else they invite us to, such as a day at the rugby, and I'll explain to them that I won't be going due to the way the step-dad makes me feel. Life's too short to spend it with individuals who are happy to make me feel like rubbish and I don't want my daughter to be around a man who feels it ok to be like this.
The problem is she will be excited about seeing you but hugely anxious about interacting with you all - on her home ground. She'll be so stressed that her ability to adapt on the fly to a random situation while also trying to be mum to her son, granny and MIL etc. - and trying to please everyone with conflicting needs - you're wanting to relax, kids want to play - adults want to talk, kids want to run around - it's too much. If she feels she hasn't done well on your previous visits, it will just load extra anxiety onto the next visit.
Does she use e-mail or texting? You would find it much easier to be in written communication with her in the days before visiting - to give her time to assimilate the plans of your impending visits and get all the stress out of it - she would have time to process your messages and have time to formulate an answer - it keeps it calm and emotion-free so she knows when you're coming, who is coming, what things you're bringing for the kids to play with, if she needs to feed you, what you all eat, where you'd like to go out etc. Perfect planning prevents poor performance We find non-verbal communication very difficult so you need to say what you mean and make it simple and clear - remove ambiguity.
She's trying hard but it sounds like she's easily overloaded and overwhelmed when you all arrive in her safe environment - and she has nowhere to escape to - so she has to try to get through the best she can - no matter how badly she does. The speaking over people will be because she's at 150% overload and she's trying to control/make order in her brain - which comes over as rude and blunt. Try making the situation simpler - get your husband to look after toddler etc so she can remove the chaotic elements and get back to order in her mind.
Every unknown is stress to us - the more you can firm up details and remove the unknowns, the less stressed she'll be and the more able to cope. If she knows exactly what she needs to do before you visit, the easier it will be for her and you - and you'll gradually find your balance with her.
The more simplicity, predicability and calm that you can bring to the situation, the more able she'll be to cope - it sounds dull, but if you can give her the ability to completely predict the whole visit with nothing surprising her, the easier it will be for you all.
I would like to know how people answer this question
Do you think I should try and change the way I speak to her? I’ve previously just tried to listen politely, or sometimes ignore her if she’s being rude/ talking over people. Should I be more direct? I understand that some of the advice for communicating with autistic children can involve making it clear what you want/ what your expectations are. Can this work for adults or am I being rude for assuming they could be comparable?
For example if she’s playing with the kids do I say ‘the kids would like it if x,y,z’ and ‘you should do x,y, z’? It definitely feels odd to me to talk to someone in this way. But obviously the just letting her get on with it doesn’t seem to be working.
Also, if she does shout/ talk over people - is it ok to say something like - ‘please can you wait until x has finished speaking’? I don’t want it to sound like I’m telling her off though.
Autistic people tend to have few friends so from what you say, she sounds incredibly lonely - so much so that she can't hold it in when she sees a new face. The fact she wants to talk to/at/over you means she's probably trying really hard to be your friend - take that as an honour.
Like you say, I think she's really out of practice so it sounds like you'll have to get more involved in the short term to 'train' her and the toddler to work together and find their middle ground - sort of a referee - so they both learn the rules of how to play together. Try other activities like drawing or other creative things where the rules are more flexible - Lego is always good.
We tend to like to talk about things we know about - so if you can control the environment, it will make the interaction smoother - some other things that would work are outdoor visits to zoos, woodland, rivers etc. where she can get her own cogs running remembering stuff to teach toddler all about trees and nature - it's all about quality time together - and you can get both of them to burn excess energy so they'll both be easier to handle afterwards.
Sounds like brother in law can't be bothered - I'd guess his wife is driving that opinion - she will be more focussed on her own family and men are usually easily driven.
Hi, and thank you for getting back to me. Great idea on the task focused games. She is definitely better when she’s concentrating on something. The trouble sometimes starts when the grandkids don’t play ‘properly’ - she’ll often want them to use the toy or play the game exactly how it should be played so the kids sometimes get frustrated and upset. Maybe this will get easier as the kids get a bit older and can interact with games better.
Overall her memory seems great (has an exacting memory for some topics) but she definitely struggles to remember and enact simple instructions - hence my worry about safety. For example - she’ll often leave the brake off the buggy near busy roads. Or when she’s left alone with the toddler, she’ll get distracted and wonder off. I know she’s raised 3 sons - but I do wonder if this sort of thing is worse now? Or she’s just out of practice?
I do wonder if she’s lonely - she has one specific friend who she is quite obsessed with and talking about this friend is a particular topic of choice. However she doesn’t seem to have other friends - rather people she plays bridge with, people they know from church etc. They don’t ever have friends over for dinner, that sort of thing.
I think you’re definitely onto something with the ‘bull in a China shop’ I get the feeling she’s bursting ready to talk (about what she’s into), but for us it’s our ‘downtime’ so working out how to match her energy is tricky.
I honestly do accept her as she is - I just wish I had an ally to help plan how to manage things/ discuss strategies so we can all be a bit happier. I feel like a diagnosis (or at least a conversation about the possibility) would also make my brother in law and his wife take more responsibility and share the load. Overall they just avoid spending any time with her - they’ve never spent Christmas with my parents in law. It feels like they’ve written her off as hard work, and when she says things which are rude and mean (obviously not on purpose - but no filter) it justifies to them never seeing her rather than understanding it’s a quirk of her personality. She’s not a horrible person at all.