Is it me?

I was talking to another colleague at work yesterday who could, I think, be on the spectrum.  It's in the family.  She's been burned so many times in cohabitation arrangements that she's now living separately from her current partner (in the same street)... and it's worked for several years.  They want to marry and she says there's pressure from various sources for them to have a 'conventional' (i.e. cohabiting) marriage.  But they aren't bowing to it, because it works fine as it is.  That's the only way I'd do it now, too - unless I could have, say, Buckingham Palace and be half a mile apart whilst under the same roof!

The only reason I am alive is alcohol.

Yes.  Not deficient, different...

Starbuck said:

I used to try and compensate from my lack of 'theory of mind' by regularly asking my ex partners if they were ok, are they happy, is there anything I have missed etc. but this irritated them rather than helped things.

Starbuck said:

I would like to think I am an empathetic and caring individual, but when you read studies like this, you can't help but leave with the feeling that you are cold and uncaring whilst being difficult to be around.

I have come to believe that the 'theory of mind' thing is another myth.  Another way for the majority to look at us and tell us what we 'lack'.  What we actually lack is the NT mindset.  Our perceptions and responses are different - which is what the paper was mainly focusing on, rather than looking at ways in which our behaviour is 'deficient'.  It seems perfectly feasible, therefore, that our 'theory of mind' would also be different.  A person from a tribe in the Amazon, who has never been out of their village nor seen a westerner, would be viewed as deficient if they were suddenly dumped in the middle of London.  That's an extreme and probably crass example, I know.  But the point is - if your head is wired a different way from the majority, the way you perceive and respond to the world (which manifests as your 'behaviour') is bound to be different.  Society needs to understand, accept and learn to accommodate this rather than expect us to do ourselves untold psychological and emotional damage by 'adjusting' to meet their needs and expectations.  As you say... because we're in a minority, assessments tend to be one-sided.  If you've 99 people telling you one thing, and only 1 person telling you something else, that 1 person's views are likely to be heavily outweighed by the bulk of majority opinion.

We are caring and empathetic people.  I work in care.  I can care for and about others.  Unfortunately, though, I am unable to put myself in their shoes and feel what they are feeling.  If someone bursts into tears in front of me, I can muster a response - but it will be a learned response, not an instinctive one (in fact, I'll probably feel acutely embarrassed and not know what to do - which will make me seem uncaring).  My mother was the closest human being to me in her life.  She remains so, in many ways, now that she is no longer here in her physical life.  Yet I have never shed any real tears since she passed, and I have carried on with my life in a way that must make me appear like some kind of robot.  I miss her so much.  But I am surrounded by her in other ways.  I have many of her things in my flat, her pictures on my walls, some of her jewellery, her lavender bags under my pillow, etc.  Every weekend, I visit the site where we scattered her ashes and stop for a few words with her.  My NT brother, on the other hand, has shut down on all of it.  He never talks about her.  He can no longer bear the smell of lavender.  He doesn't keep any of her things.  Which of us is the most emotionally 'mature'?  Maybe we both are - but in our own individual ways, which are quite different.  We all have our own ways of grieving, of course.  Similarly, we NDs have our own way of feeling, caring, responding to events.  An Aspie friend has the theory that because we have often endured a lot of trauma in our lives (bullying, social exclusion, abuse), we not only have a lower threshold for things that traumatise us, but we develop a different way of expressing ourselves when we experience others going through traumatic episodes.  Maybe this is what makes us appear 'cold and uncaring.'  I think there is a lot in this.

So, said the ElephantInTheRoom, is that the elephant in the room? 

So has the *** in balance unsettled you? 

Hi Blank, no I do not have counselling despite asking for it.  The area that I live in is particularly bad for anyone with ASD as any counselling facility will refuse to see you whether it is just for you, or you and your partner as they said they are not equipped to deal with patients with ASD - what on earth do they think we will do?

He has read up on ASD in bits in his own time, but we both still feel uncomfortable talking about it.  We have had to agree to disagree on certain things as well, albeit this is not often.  I think he understands there are challenges with ASD, he just doesn't understand the severity and the effort it takes to just function in some areas.

I sympathize with you on having things sprung upon you!  

Hi Martian Tom, I can relate to that extract a lot - I am fairly confident I suffer with Alexithymia as well, so this only adds to the issue.  I always find it interesting in these studies, just how quick the NT is to point out that the ND cannot see things from their perspective - yet clearly missing the point that they have failed to see it from the ND perspective, so both parties are actually failing, yet the failings seem to fall very one-sided.

I certainly don't express my emotions well, in fact most people think I am very calm just because I don't emotionally act out what is actually going on inside.

I can relate to your experience about your ex-wife as well, where you both did your own thing.  I think we are at that point, only I tend to work around my partner through not knowing the plan, rather than just saying to each other, "right Saturday morning, we both go and do our own thing, then we can do X, Y and Z from 2:30pm" for example.

I used to try and compensate from my lack of 'theory of mind' by regularly asking my ex partners if they were ok, are they happy, is there anything I have missed etc. but this irritated them rather than helped things.  I got told on numerous occasions you should have to ask, you should just know!  This baffled me and I found it highly hypocritical, especially as they would fail to realise I was in distress at times - or maybe they didn't care, either way it is all overwhelming for me.

I would like to think I am an empathetic and caring individual, but when you read studies like this, you can't help but leave with the feeling that you are cold and uncaring whilst being difficult to be around.

Hi Faith, sorry to hear that.  Relationships are tough - hope things improve for you.

Martian Tom said:

I wonder if something is lost in every such relationship - marriage or partnership.  Surely, no one can be their essential selves in any such arrangement - unless it's uncommonly free and open, and even then it doesn't always work out.

I agree that we all have to adapt to accommodate another person in our lives.   Sometimes this can be for the better, whereas other times it can be disastrous.  I have come to terms with the fact I need to adapt my ways and cannot be my 'true' self, the same as no one really can when you really delve into it.  I just feel at the moment I am beyond my limits of being able to cope, so 'autistic' traits if you want to call them that, become more obvious and I am much less forgiving in my ways.  My tolerance levels have reached breaking point, which results in me being more sensitive and lashing out - this is where the problem lies for me, I have hit a point to which my control over how I act is diminished and I end up acting in ways I feel is not respectful.  However, my partner fails to realise when I am reaching said breaking point and what can add to that limit being exceed more quickly and regularly.  This could be the reason behind my recent shutdowns and burnouts.

Blank said:

All the times I left it was both a relief and a financial disastet. In both instances the other person was better off. Both times because I really wanted to leave instantly

I have learned the hard way in the past where ex partners have taken advantage of me.  My current partner is not like that or that way inclined.  His intentions are genuine and well-meaning in that regards.

Sorry for the late reply - I have been battling with shutdowns, burnout and a chaotic schedule.

I am on edge and getting towards my limit tonight, so I will aim to keep this short and sweet.

We both have our own houses but pretty much live together where we take it in turns to stopover at each house.  I like it this way as I have my own space, but due to unforeseen circumstances, I am now having to stop at his house a lot more to help me get to work.  I am not dependent on him, but living at his house I suppose has made me more dependent.  

I'm sorry you're going through this difficult time with your partner. I've dated two men so far so I can't give you any advice, but I'm struggling with my current boyfriend who I've been with for nearly six months now. So I half know what you're feeling and going through.

Maybe you should start off by equally sharing all the bills? Somehow this system doesn't seem fair to me. But I could be wrong.

All the times I left it was both a relief and a financial disastet. In both instances the other person was better off. Both times because I really wanted to leave instantly.

I found alcohol really made things bearable and clouded my judgment too much. Granted, once I stopped drinking I couldn't see the fun of most things anymore and the relationship ended fairly quickly.

We rent where we currently live. I pay the rent and the household bills. He pays free food bills, fuel and car stuff. 

I work full time, he’s been off sick for six months so gets PIP as income atm. 

I wonder if something is lost in every such relationship - marriage or partnership.  Surely, no one can be their essential selves in any such arrangement - unless it's uncommonly free and open, and even then it doesn't always work out.  I know when I worked in Divorce at the law courts, you could often see - reading between the lines and explicitly stated - that people just felt like they wanted release from a kind of prison they'd found themselves in.  I'm sure a lot of couples are happy, and feel completed by their partners.  But it still means having to change things.  It's finding the balance that you can live with that's key, as you say.  I wonder, though, how often it's 'put up for a quiet life'.  I know when I was married - towards the end - it was fear of the fallout that kept up together.  Our financial circumstances made it difficult to separate and manage two households (though that's what we did, in the end, and it was a huge pressure until the house finally sold.)

I think in any kind of relationship some sort of adjustment is key, but it is very difficult to lose yourself. It seems people with autism have extra issues with that. Maybe due to traumas.

Blank said:

I've tried in previous relationships to be less troublesome, MORE SPONTANEOUS, and adjust adjust adjust. All the time losing myself more and more.

This applies to all kinds of other relationships - but more so with partnerships.  It is just incredibly exhausting.  It's also, I think, demeaning.  It means denying a huge part of who we are.  Ultimately, it's just very, very damaging.