PIP is it worth bothering? It's a headache already

If you have a MIND near you they can be very helpful.  Some places will help you with the form others will be able to refer you to someone locally to help you.  They also might be able to accompany you to the assessment (I had the manager come with me to my ESA assessment as I have no family, and I had a MIND advocate sit in on my home PIP assessment with me.  In West Sussex at least MIND have a county wide advocacy service. 

I admittedly was claiming for social anxiety disorder not ASD (I still haven't decided if I have ASD or not) but MIND, although varies form place to place, can be fantastic. 

There are also a couple of good websites regarding both PIP and ESA.  https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/  which have info but also guides (you do have to pay for these tho) and a forum.  Also the benefits forum of https://www.youreable.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?2-Benefits-help-amp-advice-on-disability-benefits-incapacity-benefits-ESA-and-DLA  is very good if you need to ask questions or for advice when things go awry with the DWP.  There are a lot of helpful and knowledgeable ppl there. 

Well I guess they have one. I never received my form for the identification proof even though they claim to have sent it.  hey sent me half of a warning letter as I had not sent in a form that they haven't sent me. They only sent me the first page so I don't have the address that they state in the letter to send it to. Not that I have faith in them to look after my original letter after they were incapable of telling me what was wrong with my application over the phone or send me letters and forms.

I also received the warning two days before the deadline even though it was dated several weeks back and as I was ill and in a state of prolonged meltdown I couldn't fill it out or go the the job centre so I have not responded.

Guess I am now disallowed but I haven't got the energy to fight on the phone with them anymore. Each phone call takes everything I have and I just don't have that kind of energy at the moment so I guess they have won and gotten what they wanted and bullied me out of the process with poor service and stress.

They are putting on this sort of behaviour. They sent me half of a warning letter as I had not sent in a form that they haven't sent me. I received the warning two days before the deadline and as I was ill and in a state of prolonged meltdown I couldn't fill it out or go the the job centre so I have not responded. Guess I am now disallowed but I haven't got the energy to fight on the phone with them anymore. Each phone call takes everything I have and I just don't have that kind of energy at the moment so I guess they have won and gotten what they wanted.

Greetings, anyone... I know that this is a Month-Old Thread, but I really wanted to support "Plastic"'s first answer. (And I do not get on this Forum that often, lately.)

The methods of deliberation/procastination, which are used by "Official persons" should well start its own Thread. (though I doubt support here.)

For instance, a decade or more ago, I was starting to claim Unemployment Benefit; then the offices closed, and I had to claim it again.

One time, I claimed, and then I went back, and I was told that my 'Claim Form' had "not gone through".

The Woman dealing with my claim was puzzled, and then spent much time making Phone Calls and faffing about, asking others in the same building about my 'Claim Form'. Genuinely Perplexed, she at last opened the drawers at her own right hand, and so then exclaimed, joyfully: "Oh here it is!"

...That is not the worst of it, yet; for, after my commenting at this behaviour in a subdued manner, she then said the following words in an extremely gleeful and cheering tone:

"Oh, well, it's a new system! You can expect a few hiccups now and then!"

...The fact that she did not thereafter wind up in Hospital shortly from that, was because the chair upon which I was sitting was far too heavy for me to pick up to then give it to her upside of her head. 

There was a lot of other nonsense after that, in the same place, but I shall not list it here. And then that office closed down, too...!

End of Post and Good Fortune to anyone who may read...!

To be honest, my biggest problem with it was all the waiting around for weeks or months between stages. I find nothing worse than having an important decision hanging in the air - my mind spends every idle moment trying to imagine every possible outcome and fretting over how the next stage will play out. If claims were assessed fairly in the first instance, in the way that the tribunal courts do, there would be no need for the vast majority of it.

The system is quite patently designed to be as confrontational as possible, and to dismiss claimants at every possibly opportunity in the hope that they will just give up and walk away. Even the High Court has ruled that the assessment process is flawed and being implemented by contractors who are not fit for purpose.  However, most people's chances of success are much better than they usually think, so long as they're prepared for the long haul. I know two other autistic people personally, and have seen several others on forums, who went through the charade of being awarded zero points, even after Mandatory Reconsideration, but were successful at appeal.

Oh Julie, I'm really sorry to hear about your nightmare with the DWP.

I had the same experience...

Until I got my local MP involved! The MP has inside connections with the DWP...

Another thing, I would have a cup of tea, relax, then get back onto applying.

Remember in order to answer "yes" to being able to carry out any task, you must be able to do it repeatedly, safely, reliably, in a timely manner, etc without it causing you pain or distress (or exhaustion).

The local CAB should be able to help you too, but see the criteria here... and good luck! You're entitled to a fair assessment of your needs. Best wishes, Anna

www.google.co.uk/search

You make the PIP process sound like a real drama.

I was advised to apply for it (& ESA) by one of my multiple advisors as part of an action plan.  My other advisors laughed in my face and said I had no chance of getting it.

LimaMikeSquared said:

How long is the PIP process?

As long as the proverbial piece of string!

It depends very much on what point in the process you get an award (or find out for sure that you won't be.) I now receive enhanced rate "daily living" and basic rate "mobility" components of PIP - but my case took about as long as is possible while still winning.

• After filling in and sending off the forms, it was a couple of months before I was finally called in for the capability assessment.
• I hadn't been able to get an advocate at this point, and turned up in such a state that I was sent away and re-booked to try again a month later in the hope that I'd find someone to go with me. (the interview was ended because I was showing "cognitive impairments" that the assessor deemed made me impossible to interview.)
• At the second attempt, I'd finally got myself an advocate, and the assessment was done. However, hardly any of the questions had anything to do with the issues reported on my forms, or autism in general.
• A few weeks later, I found that I'd been awarded zero points. Apparently my "cognitive deficits" had completely disappeared, as the decision letter said that there was no sign of them.
• The next step was to request a "Mandatory Reconsideration". The response that me and my advocate put together addressed everything in the decision letter point by point. The DWP deemed all of these points irrelevant and awarded zero point again. This took another month or two.
• Next step - put in my appeal. It was getting on for nine months before my appeal hearing date. However, the hearing was adjourned without me taking any part in it because DWP had messed up my records so badly that no decision could be reached due to legal technical points.
• It was about another six months before the second appeal hearing. The tribunal deemed that I should have been scored twenty points, and my award was finally made...
• ...but it was awarded for only four years. Since it took nearly two of those years to get from filling in the initial forms to finally winning my appeal, I now have less than two years before I'll have to start the process all over again.

Although I got very unlucky having to have both the assessment and the appeal hearing twice, most of the above is not unusual for autistic people claiming PIP. It's common to be rebuffed with zero point assessments; mandatory reconsideration are just a time-wasting extra step that rarely lead to any change; and about two-thirds of people who go through the appeal process eventually win.

So, steel yourself for possibly a long process, and if you possibly can, get a disability advocate that can see you through the process (CAB, Mind or a local NAS branch should be able to point you in the right direction.) Always remember too, that psychological reasons for a disability are just as valid as physical ones, though it will probably take an appeal before this will be acknowledged. For example...

• If you need prompting to do things like eat, say, because attention problems lead you to skip meals, this is just as valid as not being able to eat because you can't lift a forkful of food to your mouth.
• Severe agoraphobia, difficulties with navigation, or disorientation when walking in crowded places do count as mobility problems, as they affect the ability to get around safely just as much as physical immobility.
• Problems understanding language still count even if they only occur under certain conditions; e.g. in crowded places or when there's background noise.
• Anxiety, depression, etc. should be counted if you can show that your other conditions make you more prone to them.

Good luck!

Thank you for your replies everyone. I shall have a read and a digest of all the information and hints and tips

I'll probably get one from my GP I have an appointment booked so I shall ask there regarding the anxiety, depression, sciatica and fibro.

I also have received my diagnosis paperwork for my ASD appointment, which the first thing it says is that I need to be reminded to go to the loo. Sounds worse then we mentioned (I have a habit of announcing I need to go and walk round and get distracted for ages and sit down and he says - I thought you were just going for a wee and I had forgotten). It also says I was very reliant on him to fill in gaps in the conversation. Is this enough or do I need to request a specific letter from the people who diagnosed me?

I'll just wear what I am comfortable in I think - Which is usually jeans an t-shirt. My dad is the same. We met up for dinner and went to a semi fancy pub both in jeans and fleece jumpers and walking boots...

definitely you have got to stack the odds in your favour

I read that as you carry a miniature human ear and a plague....I really need to get better glasses.

I force the mobility and walking too so I am not expecting to get mobility. Once I get going I can hobble around alright, its the standing and first 10 meters or so I struggle with (but I can do it), especially in the evenings or if I have walked a little way during the day. Once I get past that point I loosen a little and it gets easier. I can now get up 80% of the time on my own but it is often more hauling myself up.

I took the decision to push through on these matters as the less you do the more you lose with muscle and I was very close to being non-mobile for a long time. Crawling up flights of stairs, husband having to help me to bed - this was in my early 20s so decided it had to change if that was what it was like in my prime! 

I don't look great most of the time to be honest - I am allergic to makeup so no hiding. I am anaemic most of the time, despite taking iron supplements, so have a pasty complexion with dark sunken eyes. Most people comment on how tired I look all the time. I look like I have a bit more colour in me at the moment but only since I dyed my hair red 

I am a museum curator, most of my clothes consist of jeans and t-shirts or jumpers in various states of holes and stains as I am handling archaeological material all the time. Thing is I see little problem wearing these clothes outside of the grubby stores - must make a note to tick the needs help assessing what appropriate clothing is box! Last month I went round town in a pair of jeans which had split down the back pocket. I hadn't noticed when I put them on I was showing everyone the colour of my pants. Maybe I should wear those to the interview...

I have a miniature hermans bear, a crystal moon garzing hare and a mini copy of a plaque my late grandmother had that always go with me everywhere in my handbag :)

when the works and pensions select committee concluded its investigation into PIP/ESA  process they said that recording equipment should be available at all medical centres and all assessments should be recorded. And I think the DWP agreed they would make recordings a part of the claim process. BUT they haven't yet. 

I would worry about the recording situation if and when called in for assessment, and right now concentrate on getting the claim form, making a few notes about how disability affects day to day life, and gathering medical evidence.

Get really lucky or the right letters from doctors and sometimes medicals aren't required...or rather they aren't possible. For example someone that could come to harm or cause others harm due to having meltdowns can request a home visit which is likely to be denied because it could put atos staff in a potentially dangerous situation OR they could request a paper based decision be made and avoid the medical that way. Even tribunals can be done on paper so from start to finish there is no direct contact with anyone. Evidence required to be awarded benefit/win appeals needs to be really good to get anything without having the medicals though.

i just found this article my bad

The DWP has produced a FAQ on the audio recording of Employment and Support Allowance (ESA) Work Capability Assessments

 The FAQ states that:

• You do not have a legal right to have your face-to-face assessment recorded but all requests will be accommodated where possible.
• You should always request audio recording in advance.
• You must sign a consent form.
• If recording equipment is not available you may have to wait longer than normal for their face-to-face assessment. Although this may slow down the benefit process it will not effect your entitlement to benefit.
• You can request to have a home based assessment recorded.
• You may be allowed to use your own recording equipment providing you give DWP/Atos notice and it meets DWP/Atos Healthcare requirements. This includes providing two copies of the recording in such a way to ensure that the recording has not been tampered with and is a reliable and accurate record of the assessment.
• Approved recording media are standard CD and audio tapes only. Video recording of assessments is not permitted.
• If you are caught making a secret recording your assessment will be terminated.

there was a thread a couple of weeks back where a forum member said she recorded her interview with the assesses knowledge

The simple answer to your question is yes it is worth the hassle claiming PIP :BUT: before starting, to take some of the stress out of the process, its possibly worth getting this thought in your head. I can't miss what I've never had. The main reason for starting out that way is because the process can be stressful and can take a long time. Especially if you need to go to tribunal. 

claim forms can be requested online. I try my hardest to avoid direct contact with the DWP because even owning a telephone is considered a sign that communication with others isn't a problem. Citizens advice have always been of some use :BUT: there are others such as mind that are probably better if you have mental health problems. Plus a lot of people are suggesting that cab are not independent of the DWP because the dwp have paid them 51 million quid to help people complete UC claims...However CAB have signed a contract that says something along the lines of we will not speak publicly about the issues UC claimants are facing. And people are facing a lot of problems with UC PIP ESA...Ummmmm the entire benefits system. Even people with cancer trying to claim UC have to wait 5 weeks or more without payments. Homelessness up. Having to use food banks/baby banks is now not uncommon and almost acceptable.

sick and disabled people are under the governments microscope and under attack. People earning 1000's an hour seem to be convincing people earning 12 an hour that people earning 8 are the reason this country is broke. And sick and disabled are scroungers. Hate crime is up. BUT dont let any of that put you off claiming if you think you meet the criteria for a benefit. 

If you need to go to CAB or any other organisation for help with your claim. The dwp may query how you managed to cope with that. You say you have meltdowns. Is this documented ?? by doctors ? have they or any other professionals witnessed any of your meltdowns ? I ask because medical evidence is very important. And evidence relating to inability to cope with others goes a long way towards being awarded ESA(reg35) and without looking it up I'd guess there are a fair number of points awarded in PIP claims for inappropriate risky or aggressive behavior.

Obviously there are a lot of different ways points are awarded. And there are obviously a lot of lies told by the dwp and their assessors. DWP rules state you cannot record medicals unless you have old style police style recording equipment and give them a duplicate of whatever you record...but with that said a judge did allow a hidden recording to be played at appeal. 

HERES THE ADDRESS FOR CLAIM FORM. BE SURE TO SEND ALL LETTERS RECORDED DELIVERY..

https://www.gov.uk/pip/how-to-claim

Other ways to claim

If you find it difficult to use the telephone, you can claim by post or by using a text relay or video relay service.

Send information by post

You can get a form to send information by post (although this can delay the decision on your claim). Write a letter to ask for the form.