Disability Confident Scheme

Hi all...

With there being so few neurodiverse (ND) people in full-time employment, I was wondering what, if any, experiences anyone else has had when applying for a job with an employer that is registered with the Disability Confident Scheme?

My own experience has been less than stellar, but then, the most recent attempt was applying for a job with the local council Rolling eyes

I have several issues/question regarding the DCS - all based purely upon my own experience and latter research.

First, please indulge me in relating my most recent experience:

I saw a job advertised that I would be able to do standing on my head, blindfolded and one arm tied behind my back.

I had ALL the mandatory skills/experience and all except for one of the desirable ones

Being a local authority, they wanted their own specific application form filled out etc.  Now, I don't know about anyone else, but I go to complete pieces when it comes to application forms for anything, let alone a job - sends the anxiety straight through the roof.  Knowing this, I telephoned the HR department, explained my situation to a very helpful lady and she agreed that, in my case, they would make a reasonable adjustment and allow me to fill in only the basics on the application form and submit my CV for the evidence of skills and experience etc.  This I duly did - even thanking them for the reasonable adjustment in the covering email.

It just so happens that this local authority quite proudly promote themselves as a Disability Confident employer.  Even on their own website it states that if you are applying under the Disability Confident scheme and you meet the minimum requirements for the job, you are guaranteed an interview.  Result, I thought.

Imagine my surprise when 3 weeks later I receive an email stating that I have been unsuccessful and will not be called for interview.  TO be perfectly honest, it felt like someone had stepped out of my computer and slapped me round the face.

I emailed them asking for feedback on why my application was unsuccessful.  Another 3 weeks went by and then I received an email stating that it is not their policy to give feedback at the application form stage of the interview process.  I replied stating that as I had applied under the DCS, I would really rather appreciate the feedback especially as I met all their criteria.  2 weeks later I receive an email stating that the HR manager will discuss my application with the hiring manager(s) and get back to me though she also re-iterated that it is not their policy to give feedback at this stage.  4 weeks down the line I get an email...  This email says that there was no evidence that I met the criteria in my application.

To (hopefully) put a picture in your mind think bull & red rag.

I duly opened my CV in Word, highlighted ALL the areas that evidenced where I met, or exceeded, their requirements and sent it back to them with a very politely worded email asking where, exactly, the evidence they were looking for was lacking.  That was 2 months ago and I still have not received any response.

Now, my questions...

  1.  What is the point of having a scheme if there is no teeth or enforcement behind it?
  2.  What is the point of an employer advertising that they are part of the scheme and then not even complying with the information on their own website/material?
  3.  If the idea is to make jobs/employers more accessible to those with disabilities (ND, ASD, paraplegic or whatever), how can it possible be doing so?
  4.  If this is another example of so-called "positive discrimination" can someone please explain what part(s) of this experience has been positive for me?
  5.  I would prefer that everyone was treated solely on their ability to do the job rather than any "protected characteristic" or, in the absence of that, at least do what you (the employers) say they are going to do!

Okay...  Soap box has been made into a go-kart now...

Has anyone else had any experiences - positive or negative - of this or any similar schemes?

  • Can organizations receive additional benefits due to the allocated number of jobs for Disability people? I mean, not only with regards to the image but some specific bonuses in the form of funding or participation in grants. I know very little about it, but I need to prepare. My application for disability from social insurance was rejected. I'm currently looking into what I can do about it here https://www.oxnerpermarlaw.com/what-are-my-chances-of-winning-an-appeal/. But I also understand that I need to be ready to look for a job in a new status. I'm afraid of constant rejection...

  • Everybody is wired for playing some sorts of games, essentially life is a game.  But not everybody is good at the same games.  In this case society has a predominate game "the norm social game" that we're not good at.  My experience isn't that we're not social, it's that we're differently social.   I've come across a few people I could work really well with in the past (before I was diagnosed and had no clue I was Autistic).  I think ASD people find it much easier to get on with other ASD people because we're "more compatibly wired" than we are to norms.  The impedance matching with norms is just all wrong.

    Now we can't divorce ourselves from norms, because if nothing else we need customers - they are by far the largest demographic so you can't be walling yourself off completely from your largest market :-D. 

    But I'm fairly convinced that if we're 80-90% concentrating on what we're good at, then we can find ways to address the remaining 10-20% of norm interaction that can't be avoided so that it works for everyone.  I'm also fairly convinced that we're so much more focused and organised when it matters that once we get going, norms will find it difficult to catch up.

  • Depressing, but true... I once got a 'secret' pay rise because my manager had noticed my colleagues going to enormous lengths to avoid difficult tasks whilst I just got on with the job! Maybe I should have stuck in that job... 

  • Granted.  What about when you (me) are just not wired for the playing of such games?

  • Spot on again - have we worked in the same places?

    I would you have to agree

  • The norms have *lots* of weaknesses that they tend not to know about because they're so caught up in trying to find and maximise their place in their social hierarchies.  So they can be beat, or at least a mutually agreeable accommodation is there for the taking I think.  But we need to stop trying to play their games and concentrate on playing ours.

  • You know me so well already lol

  • I had exactly the same experience a few years ago with Britain’s Number One Building society.  Except they point blankly refused to give me any feedback at all. 

    On paper I met all the requirements but didn’t get any feedback.  

    Like with most companies it’s all a nice bit of spin. 

  • Spot on again - have we worked in the same places?

  • Being good at your job is worth pretty much nothing.  In actual fact you often end up being bitten by the "curse of competence" - everybody claims they need help and can't do their work, so you're expected to do their jobs as well as yours whilst keeping up with all your normal work.

    Ofc, because the norms are good at the social game, their inability to do their job is socially acceptable, meanwhile they start looking for the slightest excuse to cause you trouble because you being good at your job makes them look bad and gets in the way of their socialising.

    As far as I can tell, pretty much the only way to get anywhere in a norm organisation is playing the social game well.

  • Sorry to hear your frustrations... don't give up :-)

    It might be a blessing in disguise that the council failed to recognise your worth and the value you might bring to the department...

    Keeping my fingers crossed for you,

    Anna

  • Sadly, I think you highlight a reality that affects too many of those on the spectrum. It seems that being good at your job is not as important as how you fit in and play the game. 

  • I think we have to accept the reality that on the whole, most norms don't want us in their workplaces - either because they find us awkward, we make them feel uncomfortable because we're not like them, they find us difficult or whatever.

    My experience has been that actually being good at what you do doesn't help you progress in a career beyond a very limited point.  Because we're no good at "the social game" as I describe it, you have very little chance of getting anywhere in management (which for right or wrong is where the money is these days) so unless you happen to fall on your feet by sheer happenstance in a particular organisation, you don't even have to worry about the glass ceiling that women have to deal with - we can't even get out of the glass basement.

    Many norms don't go to work to do a job, they go to work to socialise and earn money whilst trying to do as little as possible and trying to push as much of their work onto other people as possible.  Since they are better at the social game than we are, that's a losing battle for us.

    As WOPR came to the conclusion of in the "Wargames" film - the only way to win is to not play at all.  Or at least to do something different other than the typical norm social hierarchy organisational games.

  • This is a really good spot. It seems that the only option someone would have in this situation is to complain to the DWP (awarding organisation) to say the organisation is in breach of a Disabilty Confident status. But would they take any action? Maybe if an applicant is able to prove they met the minimum conditions...

  • http://www.stammeringlaw.org.uk/employment/twoticks.htm

    Nice idea I.e guaranteed interview but...

    not legally enforceable.... according to the link...

  • I think that ACAS of the DWP should have more powers to sanction (even fine) organisations which do not demonstrate they can meet the Equality Act (similar to the ICO for GDPR)

    Agreed. Tokenism and lip service don’t pay the bills or improve the wellbeing or nurture the skills that we have to offer.

    p.s NAS moderators will not reply for many reasons....

    there is a huge gulf in the process between words of intention and evidence of positive impact. . A disconnect in knowing whose those austistic adults are, their skill set and the support in place at a local or individualistic and tailored level to make this happen. 

  • Agreed. Whilst you can ask for your personal data under a Subject Access Request (to gain your shortlisting score for instance), if the organisation maintains it separated Disabilty data at the shortlisting stage, it’s very hard to prove otherwise.

  • The problem is, I think even proving that there has been a discrimination at the application stage will be incredibly difficult.  They can just say "Oh, such and had more the right sort of experience we were looking for" etc. etc. etc.  I'm sure you can imagine the defence trivially if you were the hiring manager.

  • ElephantInTheRoom is right to point this out. The fundamental problem I see is that this type of discrimination is treated as a individual civil issue which means it relies on the individual to pursue a claim for a remedy. This is not straightforward or always practical for everyone. I think that ACAS of the DWP should have more powers to sanction (even fine) organisations which do not demonstrate they can meet the Equality Act (similar to the ICO for GDPR).