Autism assessment - ADOS Module 4

I had the flying frogs on my ADOS-2 (sounds like a terrible affliction), although a different picture book when I volunteered to go through it to help train some assessors.The book used is called Tuesday by David Wiesner. I remember it well:

I actually expected to 'pass' the test easily, since I thought the way I was behaving couldn't be distinguished from any other adult in terms of eye contact, tone of voice and so on, was my usual affable self, and had little problem with the tasks (apart from deciding which of several stories to tell). I was quite wrong, and got a relatively high score: here's my thread on ADOS results. I think I probably did point, but it's the other gestures and ways of relating to people and conversational abilities that the assessor may have thought were absent.

So it's either quite hard to judge your own performance, or it's a rather random judgement of the assessor, or both. I mentioned what was going through the characters' heads in the book, for example. What was the teeth-cleaning demonstration supposed to prove? Does anyone do it 'wrongly'? Here's another person describing the test, and dubious about the result. https://www.reddit.com/r/aspergers/comments/2k23dp/i_not_convinced_with_my_diagnosis_for_aspergers/ Professionals there also may the point that the tool is not taken in isolation.

Confusingly, Module 4 of ADOS, which as I understand it corresponds Module 5 of ADOS-2, are both designed for adults, even if some of the tasks are in common with the modules for children. Like many psychological assessment tools. it's copyrighted. If you've not had the assessment yet and want the result to be as reliable as possible, you may not really want to know what they're looking for.  But if you do, it's summarised in a slide here:
http://wp.vcu.edu/virginialend/wp-content/uploads/sites/2676/2014/04/Meera-Supplemental-ADOS-Doc.pdf

Jobs: I remember having to fill in a form for schools careers advice, and put 'hermit' as a chosen career. A shame they didn't take it seriously. I think I might have excelled at it.

Sorry if I am going off topic, and  as I have not been formerly diagnosed yet I can’t comment on the testing which to my mind sounds wrong if it is tailored to children! Do they not think we have the ability in my case fifty five years to learn certain things even when I don’t agree with the answer?

I have held down my job for over thirty years, started as a labourer when fairly young,,soon learnt how to operate mechanical excavators which gave me a side line, carried on doing labour and operating machines on our own jobs, moved onto hire jobs so in effect became my own boss,,driving to and from each job was slow but I have many memories good and bad to shareLol. I was solely responsible for “my” machine.

moved up to big track machines which adds responsibility as one wrong move and big damage,,I also got a company van to go with it.

When I started to suffer various muscular related health issues I switched to being a foreman, a role I was already doing in our jobs and at times using my skill and knowledge to run sites I was on hire too.

I now rarely operate machines but have been told my skills are amazing. Well knowing all about hydraulics and  principles of leverage etc certainly helps get the most out of them.

What I will say is I settled for a menial job which didn’t demand much of me mentally,,physical ability and a good grasp of common sense.

I always felt I should have been a mechanical engineer or a designer as I cannot stop reinventing the wheel as such...Sadly my early school days were a disaster,,,I left with no qualifications, had no idea how important it all was TO ME.

just got through each day best I could, as I had always been treated harshly I decided if it was going to happen it would be on my terms. So i rebelled,,,They soon didn’t bother with me at all.

so chasing a career that was not over stressful worked for me, sadly more admin and being a junior boss has took its toll..I mask well and often succeed, but at times I struggle so much interacting and keeping everything going,

well long post after a very long absence,,

Hmm...  My ideal jobs would be gardener, beekeeper, writer, artist etc, basically anything which might allow me to be more of a hermit whilst freeing up my creative side.  I thought, as I entered the world of finance, that there would be a good chance I could hide in a corner doing some bookkeeping and end of year accounts.  Alas, offices became noisier and noisier.  Open plan, hot-desking, loads of computers humming, phones ringing, people chatting intermittently or walking through to other offices etc.  In summer, due to health and safety, the windows could only be opened a little.  Cue the small army of whirring fans!  All this plus increased demands for networking, leading staff training, attending meetings, giving presentations, driving off to do courses in other cities etc.  I think I had unrealistic expectations based on a very outdated view of the world of work combined with an inflated idea of what might be achievable for me because I was able to do well academically at school.  I think that if I could gave just had a back room job with just me and a computer, it might have been OK.

Teacher of Computer Science - enjoying particularly the programming side and new and emerging tech.  Self confessed geek and I get to meet a lot of auties in my job! :)

I am so happy for you that you found an ideal place to work where you are also very much appreciated.

I work in IT as well, but made the mistake of specialising in programming & data analysis for marketing purposes. It was great until ten years ago, I earned decent money & found it very easy to get work.

Sadly, once the financial crash started, the types of agencies I worked for decided that handling data properly was far too expensive & time consuming, when good old fashioned 'lying to clients' was much cheaper & easier.

Since then it has been increasingly hard to find reliable work & currently I am taking time out in a vain attempt to get my head together after becoming badly depressed. I doubt I will ever get back into IT though, as my programming skills are now considered 'Too Old School'. Most employers assume that 'An Old Dog Can't Learn New Tricks'  as well, so at 57 I couldn't even get an interview for jobs I would be technically overqualified for.

Such is life though

I started my current job in August 1992, and apart from a brief/grief hiatus in 1996 when I went to another company for 6 months (before I walked out) have been in it ever since.

Before that, however, the longest job was 18 months, with most being around 6 months.  And very diverse - bank clerk, music teacher, BR signalman, IT support, programmer, trainee accountant (1 week before I walked out).

I'm lucky, I think, that the company I work for tollerate me.  In the early days, I sat on my own well away from others. The company has shrunk, so I have to be near others. The headphones help, and  (being the IT guy amongst other things) have sorted it so I can work from home at least 2 days a week.

I do the work exceptionally well and fast, which is why they accept me - but I still get the odd bollocking for being a bit 'curt' with the customers or remote colleagues.

My wife once said that one of the best places for Aspies to work is either a large government IT department (where she works) or in local government (our County Council has many iteresting people working for them).

Just as an afterthought, my husband has been in a similar position and, over the years, I would say we became dab hands at fighting organisations over probationary periods, proposed redundancies and restructuring/reorganisations.  We often successfully fought our corner and yet, of course, it all took its toll emotionally.  There remains a longing for a workplace that doesn't feel like a battlefield.  

Ah.  The thirty years were mostly in the same line of work but not the same job and I had to keep moving around to get the next position all the time. it rapidly became obvious to me that I was unlikely to get a promotion if it was internal.  As an external candidate I could excel.  It took a lot out of me to do so, but I could target the application to the job and person specification and also survive a half hour to an hour interview.  (I only had to lie in a darkened room for several hours afterwards to recover!) When I actually got the job and had to pretend to be the confident, decisive, competent and sociable person they thought they'd employed for nearly 40 hours/week, that's when the problems started.  I could almost feel people wondering what had happened.  Nevertheless, I did all of this to survive and pay the mortgage etc.  I should add that all of my  jobs were in the NHS so, in effect, I had continuity with my terms and conditions, in spite of being made redundant 3 times and never being a successful internal candidate.    

You held down a job for 30 years!!!!!!!!!

My longest job was 2 years.

I have been forced out after 4 weeks, 3 months, 6 months etc.

Asked to leave training schemes after 1 week.

In my current job the probationary period is normally 6 months.  They have bought my final probationary/disciplinary meeting forward to only 4 months in the job to try to get rid of me.

Many thanks.  That's really interesting to me.   I am already planning my response to a non diagnosis and the probability of getting a second opinion or going private.  I can't remember whether I pointed to the frogs.  I do remember my elderly mother telling them that I never pointed as a child, though, and also that I was a very fussy eater.  However, I've held down a job for 30 years and been in my marriage for about as long so, on the face of it, I have the trappings of "normality."  That said, I have always felt different, never fitted in, have no long term friends and longstanding anxiety issues.  For me these are significant factors.  Apparently the multidisciplinary team will do soem kind of formulation before arriving at their conclusion.  I do hope they share this formulation with me and that, if it doesn't indicate autism, it goes some way towards explaining my lifelong difficulties (incl. with people, in the workplace and with many kinds of societal expectations).

I remember that book as well.  Cheltenham, in January.  Actually I quite enjoyed the book.

I was told I couldn't be autistic as I used my finger to point at the frogs (I was working round the page, and it helps to have a finger there). "You were pointing at them to show the other person".  Err - no I wasn't. 

I was also told that being in a long-term relationship, and holding down a job, also made it unlikely for me to be an Aspie.  They also didn't have my parents there (dead) but did have my wife and I'd sent a 26+ page doc of problems during childhood & youth.

The whole assessment seemed to be based at proving a deep level of disability, which as a 56 year old, high-functioning person, doesn't strictly apply.  I do have many problems that inhibit 'normal' behaviour, and are hard to work around.  I also have developed coping mechanisms (masking), but am less stressed if - for instance - I'm talking about a specialist subject, which includes talking about me.

Unsurprisingly, they didn't give me a diagnosis.

I went private a few months later, was tested using Baron-Cohen's AAA assessment (of which the AQ/EQ questionnaires are just the basis for the diagnostic interview), and was told I was Autistic wth problems at a clinical level, some severe.  Which fits in with my life experience.  Curiously, my wife was present at the diag interview, and said she would have answered most of the questions the same as I (apart from not being me, of course). 

After this, I went back to the local NHS Trust who said that ADOS 4 wasn't 100% reliable, and offering me a second opinion.  I declined as I didn't want to go through it a third time.

Yes.  What on earth were they looking for with those flying frogs?  And yes, I got the jigsaw too but simply thought it was mildly irritating.  I said I'd finished but that it was unsatisfactory due to the layout and number of pieces not corresponding.  They offered more pieces, "If you want," but I refused on the basis that the puzzle still wouldn't look right or correspond to anything.  they kept pushing it and I said, "No.  If that's how the puzzle is supposed to be, let's just leave it!"

I also got a child's map of the US, with little drawings for each of the places and was asked to describe it.  So I said, "It's a child's map."  And they kept asking for more and more detail whilst I simply felt puzzled as to why they were asking.  In my mind, "It's a child's map.  So what?  What on earth do they want from me?" 

And some random shapes and objects to arrange around a story - a toy car, a piece of string, a triangle, a feather etc.  What was that all about?

I'm not sure I have meltdowns but after my recent telephone conversation with them I wonder whether that might count.  I am basically trying to get a diganosis not just for me but as a way in to understanding my whole family.  My son waited over a year for an assessment but then refused to engage with the process.  My dad would never engage with services either.  So, at the end of the appointment I made it clear that the constant waiting for an assessment and then the waits between each of the appointments was really getting to me.  I also complained that they weren't really considering us as a family and that, from my perspective, the wait for my son's assessment should also be added to our period of just not knowing, stress and uncertainty.  With that in mind I asked how long I'd have to wait to get the results and they explained it might take a few weeks because they had to have an interdisciplinary meeting to review everything, then arrange another meeting with me.  Well, having waited over six weeks I just phoned them to find that they haven't even had their meeting yet!  So it'll be another few weeks while they find a time for this then get back to me with another appointment time.  Even then, I only made my feelings known and kept pushing them when they tried to send me in other directions (psychology team support or a carer's assessment for the situation with our son).  I said, quite firmly, "But all of this uncertainty and additional stress is caused by having to wait too long.  I want to know whether your waiting times are in line with national guidance and, if not, what's being done about it!"  I also asked them what I was supposed to do in the meantime, given that I don't know whther the groups I'm joining and the books I'm buying will fit the eventual diagnosis.  In the end I complained to PALS and the CCG, but my angry reaction seems to me to be entirely understandable and probably not a metdown.  I do feel very wound up about it all though. 

They also did tell me that the interpretation would be adjusted for an adult, but honestly I've had decades of adjusting myself and, although the "me inside" is feeling very contorted and angry, I'm not sure I'll meet the criteria.  The thing is, when I look at all the detailed descriptions of autism and the various criteria, I am certain I would have met them when I was 16.  Of course, at that time I was way too anxious to even visit my GP and seek any kind of help at all!   

The flying frogs!!!   I remember that at my assessment.

Did they also ask you to do a jigsaw made from regular rubber pieces and then refuse to give you all the pieces to try to get you to have a meltdown?

At the very start of the assessment they warned me that the exercises were aimed at young children.  And they would adjust the interpretation to take into account that I was an adult.