A rabbit stuck in the gas-light

Hi Ellie,

Sorry for not paying attention recently. 

Sounds like you are scrabbling for an anchor. 

What are your values?

Hi DongFeng5

I'm just at my wits end! I'm 43 years old and have had a lifetime so far providing for others.  I continually negate myself and my needs to provide for others.  The gaslighting reference is in reference to that notion that I don't fit in or am worthy so I seek self worth in providing for others but that in turn has meant a continual negation of self.

I guess I keep hoping (to quote Ella Fitzgerald that " Tomorrow is my turn").

I am simply not seen or acknowledged and the product of my efforts enjoyed by others and there does not seem to be any acknowledgement of how much it takes out of me or even to acknowledge the efforts that give them what they want.

It is as if I simply do not exist as a person.

I am self-diagnosed and have an OH who is well within his ability to at least take on board what I have been saying about how my aspie self impacts upon me.  He won't bother to read the articles, videos etc that I send his way to read or view. Maybe because he does not associate me with being a person in my own right or that he hopes it will blow over (it hasn't yet). Or maybe it is not important as long as his needs are met?

At present my OH is in hospital following emergency spinal surgery (three months in and likely another 5/6 weeks to go). Regardless of the Aspie stuff his family knows that his situation is a big thing, my father emails for updates on him and sends get well cards but again I seem to be negated like I don't exist.

I am the breadwinner, I pay the bills, I care for my son, but I am not allowed friends, nor social life, no consideration of what I might like to do, or what I might need. I am micromanaged and that also adds to the lack of agency and negation of myself as an individual.

I am told that I am needed "more than ever" - but there is very little left to give.  Yesterday I was in tears (I had the house to myself and could let the mask drop) and was very down. Even telling my OH last night that I was scared and worried for my own welfare and mental health met on deaf ears? Can you imagine how I felt? 

I am not a bad person. I enjoy quiet pleasures such as nature and reading but I am negated the opportunity to do what I want to do.  Does everything have to be stacked up on a post-retirement bucket list? The simple things that everyone else seems freely able to enjoy?

• If I can offer support and knowledge/advice I will - but why is it not reciprocated offline by those who "say they care?"
• When I need help why do I need to look at finding some external psychological support (and potentially at cost) because people negate or shrug their shoulders when I directly ask for help?
• I am a humanist and see see others needed support or consoling - am I not human?

Is my time of usefulness at and end, so if I hop off this mortal call, then, hey ho... time to get someone else in? Is that feeling of being invisible quite normal?

Very unhappy :( 

I know, Ellie.

It very much sounds like you are in an existential tail-spin. You seem to be saying that you don't know who you are, really. 

So, I'm asking you again - what are YOUR values?

(Could be dunking chocolate bourbons in lager, if you like... the choice is yours!)

You don't have to list them here, but I challenge you to enumerate your values to yourself. 

What really matters to you? What do you truly hold dear?

This is who you really are. Live your values, not someone else's. 

DongFeng5, Thank you for the time and consideration spent on your reply. It is much appreciated. 

In terms of point 1 - I am giving much thought to the key things that keep me level and are in line with my values. There needs greater time to be afforded to these things. One cannot support ourselves and others if our own self is not nurtured.

Item 3 is also very much relevant in that if there is greater responsibilities required of me then conversely greater weight needs to be given for time to have time to be who I need to be. This has to be on my terms and not in an NT setting. This community has facilitated the opportunity to express myself with like wired souls. It also pays for me to spend time with kinder and more understanding folk in order to regain some balance and self acceptance.

The above paragraph kind of helps answer point 2, There are many thinks that I would like to be able to do, experience. I need to read more as this helps me regularly frame and regulate my thoughts and conversely self expression. That is a constant.

best wishes and thank you. 

1) With consideration to how you spend your time, what might your ideal week look like? 8 hours' sleep leaves you 16 to play for, but you've already said you spend 2 hours 44 minutes online (your 15% in accordance with your values). Presumably you're spending at least 7 hours a day at work, and at least another hour on your commute, plus at least 30 mins for lunch. Perhaps, like me, you also need some "shell shock" time where you don't have to interact with others and aren't really able to do much of anything? I am sure I needn't labour the point any further; which time sinks do you keep in your life, and what might get the elbow in an effort to redress the balance?

2) As a result of 1), reviewing the list of aspirations you have (writing, further studies...) which of them are actually realistically achievable given your current constraints (age, finances, parental responsibility...)? Which items are, upon reflection, dreams that you may have to say goodbye to when you prioritise other goals more highly as a result of your values?

3) Considering the potential downside of your partner's medical outlook, to what extent might such an outcome place you in a position of relative power and strength, where you are better able to "call the shots as you see fit"? Is there an opportunity for you to define for yourself how things are going to be from now on?

As a postscript. I have read that it is quite common for those on the spectrum to convey emotion through physical and practical acts. Consider the following from the website www.musingsofanaspie.com

"Aspies and NTs speak completely different languages when it comes to expressions of love. You can either learn to translate your partner’s “love language” or you can spend the rest of your marriage wondering if this person you’re sleeping next to every night really, actually loves you.

How does this translation work? Like this:

The Scientist: “You don’t have to make my lunch every morning. I can pick something up in the cafeteria.”

Me: “I don’t mind. It only takes a few minutes and I know you’d rather have something healthy to eat. This way you don’t have to waste time waiting in line.”

The Scientist: “So you mean you make my lunch because you care about me, right?”

Exactly."

Thank you DongFeng5

The best way I can try to explain it is following a spiral of learnt behaviour patterns.  The less I felt that I fitted in the more I negated myself to appease others and then display a pattern of learnt behaviours which mean that I mute myself. The self is boxed up and put aside as if I display who I am I am more likely to misperform and get challenged.

From a historical point of view as I had an insular childhood - sat in my room reading, walking in the countryside. I have two siblings - both strong willed and vocal individuals as I was quiet and no bother I tucked myself into the shadows.

When my mother walked out from the family home when I was 14 I took on those domestic duties - I wanted to help and support the best was I could. Those chores also helped my internal myself again as a way of processing and dealing with things. My dad took the split hard and I tried in my own way to offer practical support - being too young to be able to offer support emotionally.  So, there in some ways starts the process of being practically useful in order to prove worth.

It was a challenge, it also meant that I disengaged with two very close school friends. They went down their path of being young teenagers - parties, boyfriends etc and I feel off the radar and internalised. It wasn't a planned disengagement we just went down our own individual roads.

After a period of time I struggled to cope with things and went to life with my mum and her new partner.  It didn't work out.. I got in the way. I was told to go back to living with my dad. I felt that I couldn't cope with going back (and there was a guilt about that) so ended up living in a hostel for a while for the first year of my A Levels.  I had to eventually return as I reached the age where benefits stopped and spent the year focusing on my studies and still carrying out domestic duties with a view of getting to university.  The latter was a personal aspiration but also a catalyst to change the path that I was on.

I got to uni. I then graduated and got employed very soon after.  I then met husband no. 1 and moved away, got married and undertook another degree and teacher training. Then had a child once my training was finished. I became provider again, I undertook all of the childcare duties which I enjoyed. Again, I got on with it but felt hurt that myself and my partner weren't doing and enjoying raising a child and living as a couple - i.e together. Again, I didn't fit, I outwardly seemed to be coping, and doing the right thing, so was left to it.  The relationship gradually declined - he moved into the spare room as didn't want his sleep disturbed by night feeds. Statements like, I don't love you anymore but I still like you... to nothing.  With the demands of us both working and child rearing we kind of lost each other. In the end, we parted but amicably, which is a blessing.

I communicated the split to my parents via email. They read and understood and let me crack on with it.

So... before i waffle on anymore to a certain extent you can see that I am my own worst enemy.

1. Due to poor self esteem and a capability to "do" and "provide" I slip into those behaviours as I think that is what people feel useful and what they want from me.
2. Conversely, if i reach a point that I am no longer "useful" or able to do the above then there is a fear then I will be booted out.
3. The "head down and get on with it" mentally then means that I neglect the self that might need help and support.  I am very good and solving this practically logically but then comes at the expense of parking the emotional processing. So, that builds up and then there are wobbles.  The wobbles are infrequent on deal with internally or when people aren't around and I feel able to let my guard down - so, when they do happen people don't know what to make of it.

Then..on the flip side is self agency.

1. I left the parental home to go to university - a selfish act but one that has enabled a good career and financial stability.  It also feeds my brain as menial and practical day to day living can be SO dull!
2. The determination to have agency - not in an outrageous way - I would like to write, undertake a pHD, engage in activities and interests that are not shared by those around me - i.e. reading, going to the theatre, walks in the countryside. These are not threatening or expensive pursuits but are needed to keep me balanced and centred.

The 85% negated values is a misbalance which needs addressing. I see two pathways. Shout more loudly or try to negotiate fresh terms of engagement.  i.e. If you want me to provide and do, I will, but in turn i need to nurture those values that make me, me!

There any several elements that have caused that shift.  The fact that I will be more heavily relied upon when my OH leaves hospital and his needs are physical and practical. I am the family go to for advice or practical support but no one asks if I am ok or seems able to seek me as an entity in my own right. 

They enjoy social events, shopping etc....all which I struggle with and don't fit into. i simply don't fit but I will do what I do best. Because I don't fit I am often perceived as being anti-social or arrogant. There is a gulf of understanding - mind the gap.

With my OH being in hospital I have had a little more time on my own to reflect and my son is now a teenager and more self-reliant (he still loves and needs his mum mind!) so it affords opportunity to go back to past pleasures (reading, walking etc).

The world around me is behind a thick sheet of glass - I can see the actors before me but am separate to and from. I realise that I am never going to fit... but I'm not really helping myself either.

I could "got it alone" remove myself as the misfit puzzle piece from the box. I am obviously pretty rubbish at relationships and keep repeating the same behaviour patterns until i withdraw into myself completely. 

The fact that my realisation of being on the spectrum (just been referred this morning BTW for an assessment) has been a year long process thus far and adds another level of complexity. I have masked and negated self, I have kept my "*** together" and I want others to accept who I am.  The past year has been spent trying to get my OH to understand the condition and what it means..... It is important for me that this part of me is acknowledged otherwise me as a being is "not important" after all. I am trying to work out if this is because he does NOT want to understand, CAN'T understand, or simply WON'T. 

On an existential level it is important to me that people understand what I am about and those values.  At present they seem negated.

Phew - tired typing fingers now!

Alright. 

Before rushing into any sudden changes, driven by angst regarding the potential additional demands which may or may not be placed upon you...

At what point in your life did you shift to 85% against? How and why did that happen?

Note: With regard to the why, how does your initial answer change when you apply recursion? (i.e. Ask yourself why in response to your initial answer, then again and again until you've answered yourself four or five times. 

Again, you need not post the real answers. 

Presumably at no point did you wake up one morning and decide to betray yourself or be a doormat. 

You have separately mentioned that you are currently in relationship #2. 

To what extent can you identify patterns of thought or behaviour which are common to previous interpersonal relationships and the situations you have identified above?

Alright. 

Before rushing into any sudden changes, driven by angst regarding the potential additional demands which may or may not be placed upon you...

At what point in your life did you shift to 85% against? How and why did that happen?

Note: With regard to the why, how does your initial answer change when you apply recursion? (i.e. Ask yourself why in response to your initial answer, then again and again until you've answered yourself four or five times. 

Again, you need not post the real answers. 

Presumably at no point did you wake up one morning and decide to betray yourself or be a doormat. 

You have separately mentioned that you are currently in relationship #2. 

To what extent can you identify patterns of thought or behaviour which are common to previous interpersonal relationships and the situations you have identified above?

DongFeng5, Thank you for the time and consideration spent on your reply. It is much appreciated. 

In terms of point 1 - I am giving much thought to the key things that keep me level and are in line with my values. There needs greater time to be afforded to these things. One cannot support ourselves and others if our own self is not nurtured.

Item 3 is also very much relevant in that if there is greater responsibilities required of me then conversely greater weight needs to be given for time to have time to be who I need to be. This has to be on my terms and not in an NT setting. This community has facilitated the opportunity to express myself with like wired souls. It also pays for me to spend time with kinder and more understanding folk in order to regain some balance and self acceptance.

The above paragraph kind of helps answer point 2, There are many thinks that I would like to be able to do, experience. I need to read more as this helps me regularly frame and regulate my thoughts and conversely self expression. That is a constant.

best wishes and thank you. 

1) With consideration to how you spend your time, what might your ideal week look like? 8 hours' sleep leaves you 16 to play for, but you've already said you spend 2 hours 44 minutes online (your 15% in accordance with your values). Presumably you're spending at least 7 hours a day at work, and at least another hour on your commute, plus at least 30 mins for lunch. Perhaps, like me, you also need some "shell shock" time where you don't have to interact with others and aren't really able to do much of anything? I am sure I needn't labour the point any further; which time sinks do you keep in your life, and what might get the elbow in an effort to redress the balance?

2) As a result of 1), reviewing the list of aspirations you have (writing, further studies...) which of them are actually realistically achievable given your current constraints (age, finances, parental responsibility...)? Which items are, upon reflection, dreams that you may have to say goodbye to when you prioritise other goals more highly as a result of your values?

3) Considering the potential downside of your partner's medical outlook, to what extent might such an outcome place you in a position of relative power and strength, where you are better able to "call the shots as you see fit"? Is there an opportunity for you to define for yourself how things are going to be from now on?

As a postscript. I have read that it is quite common for those on the spectrum to convey emotion through physical and practical acts. Consider the following from the website www.musingsofanaspie.com

"Aspies and NTs speak completely different languages when it comes to expressions of love. You can either learn to translate your partner’s “love language” or you can spend the rest of your marriage wondering if this person you’re sleeping next to every night really, actually loves you.

How does this translation work? Like this:

The Scientist: “You don’t have to make my lunch every morning. I can pick something up in the cafeteria.”

Me: “I don’t mind. It only takes a few minutes and I know you’d rather have something healthy to eat. This way you don’t have to waste time waiting in line.”

The Scientist: “So you mean you make my lunch because you care about me, right?”

Exactly."

Thank you DongFeng5

The best way I can try to explain it is following a spiral of learnt behaviour patterns.  The less I felt that I fitted in the more I negated myself to appease others and then display a pattern of learnt behaviours which mean that I mute myself. The self is boxed up and put aside as if I display who I am I am more likely to misperform and get challenged.

From a historical point of view as I had an insular childhood - sat in my room reading, walking in the countryside. I have two siblings - both strong willed and vocal individuals as I was quiet and no bother I tucked myself into the shadows.

When my mother walked out from the family home when I was 14 I took on those domestic duties - I wanted to help and support the best was I could. Those chores also helped my internal myself again as a way of processing and dealing with things. My dad took the split hard and I tried in my own way to offer practical support - being too young to be able to offer support emotionally.  So, there in some ways starts the process of being practically useful in order to prove worth.

It was a challenge, it also meant that I disengaged with two very close school friends. They went down their path of being young teenagers - parties, boyfriends etc and I feel off the radar and internalised. It wasn't a planned disengagement we just went down our own individual roads.

After a period of time I struggled to cope with things and went to life with my mum and her new partner.  It didn't work out.. I got in the way. I was told to go back to living with my dad. I felt that I couldn't cope with going back (and there was a guilt about that) so ended up living in a hostel for a while for the first year of my A Levels.  I had to eventually return as I reached the age where benefits stopped and spent the year focusing on my studies and still carrying out domestic duties with a view of getting to university.  The latter was a personal aspiration but also a catalyst to change the path that I was on.

I got to uni. I then graduated and got employed very soon after.  I then met husband no. 1 and moved away, got married and undertook another degree and teacher training. Then had a child once my training was finished. I became provider again, I undertook all of the childcare duties which I enjoyed. Again, I got on with it but felt hurt that myself and my partner weren't doing and enjoying raising a child and living as a couple - i.e together. Again, I didn't fit, I outwardly seemed to be coping, and doing the right thing, so was left to it.  The relationship gradually declined - he moved into the spare room as didn't want his sleep disturbed by night feeds. Statements like, I don't love you anymore but I still like you... to nothing.  With the demands of us both working and child rearing we kind of lost each other. In the end, we parted but amicably, which is a blessing.

I communicated the split to my parents via email. They read and understood and let me crack on with it.

So... before i waffle on anymore to a certain extent you can see that I am my own worst enemy.

1. Due to poor self esteem and a capability to "do" and "provide" I slip into those behaviours as I think that is what people feel useful and what they want from me.
2. Conversely, if i reach a point that I am no longer "useful" or able to do the above then there is a fear then I will be booted out.
3. The "head down and get on with it" mentally then means that I neglect the self that might need help and support.  I am very good and solving this practically logically but then comes at the expense of parking the emotional processing. So, that builds up and then there are wobbles.  The wobbles are infrequent on deal with internally or when people aren't around and I feel able to let my guard down - so, when they do happen people don't know what to make of it.

Then..on the flip side is self agency.

1. I left the parental home to go to university - a selfish act but one that has enabled a good career and financial stability.  It also feeds my brain as menial and practical day to day living can be SO dull!
2. The determination to have agency - not in an outrageous way - I would like to write, undertake a pHD, engage in activities and interests that are not shared by those around me - i.e. reading, going to the theatre, walks in the countryside. These are not threatening or expensive pursuits but are needed to keep me balanced and centred.

The 85% negated values is a misbalance which needs addressing. I see two pathways. Shout more loudly or try to negotiate fresh terms of engagement.  i.e. If you want me to provide and do, I will, but in turn i need to nurture those values that make me, me!

There any several elements that have caused that shift.  The fact that I will be more heavily relied upon when my OH leaves hospital and his needs are physical and practical. I am the family go to for advice or practical support but no one asks if I am ok or seems able to seek me as an entity in my own right. 

They enjoy social events, shopping etc....all which I struggle with and don't fit into. i simply don't fit but I will do what I do best. Because I don't fit I am often perceived as being anti-social or arrogant. There is a gulf of understanding - mind the gap.

With my OH being in hospital I have had a little more time on my own to reflect and my son is now a teenager and more self-reliant (he still loves and needs his mum mind!) so it affords opportunity to go back to past pleasures (reading, walking etc).

The world around me is behind a thick sheet of glass - I can see the actors before me but am separate to and from. I realise that I am never going to fit... but I'm not really helping myself either.

I could "got it alone" remove myself as the misfit puzzle piece from the box. I am obviously pretty rubbish at relationships and keep repeating the same behaviour patterns until i withdraw into myself completely. 

The fact that my realisation of being on the spectrum (just been referred this morning BTW for an assessment) has been a year long process thus far and adds another level of complexity. I have masked and negated self, I have kept my "*** together" and I want others to accept who I am.  The past year has been spent trying to get my OH to understand the condition and what it means..... It is important for me that this part of me is acknowledged otherwise me as a being is "not important" after all. I am trying to work out if this is because he does NOT want to understand, CAN'T understand, or simply WON'T. 

On an existential level it is important to me that people understand what I am about and those values.  At present they seem negated.

Phew - tired typing fingers now!