A proposal for the resolution of the Irish border re: Brexit

Well then it is a pity that the likes of Farage didn't use his skills to lobby against a relatively small example of bureaucratic stupidity an an MEP rather than trying to smash something that has brought peace and prosperity to a continent that never knew it before.

Putin must be jigging with glee.

As for taxes, well they probably will come down. For the super rich. I think it will be even more of the same for the already hungry masses as they pay for all the problems and losses a no-deal Brexiteers especially will bring.

Arran said:

There were times when I wondered whether Northern Ireland should not be included in the referendum, or a second referendum held in Northern Ireland if its electorate was larger than the winning margin from the mainland.

They are part of the democratic process, so yeah they should have been included however you felt they might affect the vote.

Arran said:

After all, most Unionists in Northern Ireland are Scottish in origin.

No, most people who support the Ulster Union in Scotland are Irish in origin. Most Ulster-Scots left for the US in the 1700's.

nexus9 said:

Scotland and Ireland could become Scandinavia.

They are Celtic nations. Not Scandanavian. I'd like to try selling that idea to either the Scots or the Irish in my family. Why Scandanavia specifically?

Cassandro said:

It's certainly a mess.

It most certainly is! I was a remainer but when the vote was won I couldn't disagree because it was democratic. The people who did vote leave have been betrayed.

nexus9 said:

Brexit is more and England, little England thing, than anything else.

Arran said:

Big England. Real England.

nexus9 said:

Little England.

This is like right-left political jingoism ping-pong. I'm joining in. Medium sized England with ketchup.

nexus9 said:

It was not the EU that brought in austerity, DWP and sanctions. It was not the EU that closed down the mining industries. It was not the EU that Introduced food banks. It was not the EU that is so determined to sell off the NHS. 

Never a truer word said, it was Tory cunts making Tory cuts.

Arran said:

They would probably be happy with an independent Scotland so long as the majority of Jocks vote for it.

Do you have a problem with all ethnic groups or just the ones that begin with J? First it was Jews now "Jocks". What do you think about Jeks, Jarai or Japanese?

I was making a attempt on satirical humour.

Anyway.

DongFeng5 said:

To what extent does anyone own anything?

This is rhetorical, philosophical and/or ambiguous. In a practical sense people or entities own something as the legislation on a said thing dictates. Unless there is no law, then people usually take ownership by dominance or force but that isn't the case here.

DongFeng5 said:

If we ignored the place for long enough, someone else would take it on.

I say create a Running Man/Escape from New York environment. We could have Zardoz type stone flying heads dropping off weapons. We could sell the TV rights to Viacom who could show it after Benefit Bailiff Nazi's on Benefits and reap back some tax money.

It was the EU that ensured up to 50% of fish being caught in Europe was dumped at sea. Wasted.

The eurozone has little in the way of growth. We can't compete in a global market without drastically reducing the cost of living. There needs to be a major house price correction in real terms. Salaries will settle lower through inflation. Then taxes can drop and with fewer rules, more wealth can be created. 

Cassandro, we can still be the UK. It'll just stand for Untied Kingdom instead. 

I think to comment on the austerity would have been seen as unwarranted interference. I gather the EU was very hard on Greece when they did not reach their targets but now of course the UK won't be able to vote to change policies there either. 

Yes I know a lot of individuals on the Left also voted Leave. As the writer Cassandro made a link to, there was a lot of anti globalisation here, smaller industries being swallowed up by faceless multinationals, alienation from the sweat of honest local labour. The funny thing is, this gets always to return to a morer far-right kind of rhetoric.  

The power of the unions was originally neutralised by Thatcher of course.

All sorts of people voted Leave for 1001 different reasons. One of the most interesting was relating to car insurance.

The Brexiteers were not all from the capitalist right. George Galloway and Arthur Scargill campaigned for Brexit and they are about as far left as you can go.

The official Leave and Remain campaigns were the (filthy) creation of the mainstream media who picked the figureheads they wanted.

The EU could have intervened and stopped austerity by the Cameron Osborne government but they chose not to.

Little England. It was not the EU that brought in austerity, DWP and sanctions. It was not the EU that closed down the mining industries. It was not the EU that Introduced food banks. It was not the EU that is so determined to sell off the NHS. 

No. Actually what the Brexiters want us not a little America. They want a free a d enterprising little America to benefit only the super rich where the 99 percent of mugs who voted this are about as expendable as an overworked and underpaid worker as those in the Far East. 

Too many little Americsns got left out of the booms created by successive neo Liberal governments too and now look where we are. 

Most ordinary Englishmen don't give a stuff about Northern Ireland anymore. They would probably be happy with an independent Scotland so long as the majority of Jocks vote for it.

It's unfortunate that Brexit is being organised by the Conservative and Unionist Party which uncompromisingly holds the view that Fareham, Falkirk, Fermanagh, and Ffestiniog all belong in one United Kingdom.

Big England. Real England.

Only London, the trendy cities, an affluent tract of the inland south east, and a handful of other areas had a majority Remain. Everywhere else was Leave. Most of Wales was Leave as well apart from Cardiff and the Welsh speaking areas.

Quick note that any seceding entity, like Scotland & Northern Ireland would need to apply to join the EU separately, itself a long process. Is it just a matter of pride by which England wants to retain membership as 'the United Kingdom'?

It's certainly a mess.

Scotland and Ireland could become Scandinavia. Yes, Brexit is more and England, little England thing, than anything else.

As I previously stated, Brexit might end up breaking the UK apart.

I have thought about if Scotland became independent then Northern Ireland should be thrown in as a freebie. After all, most Unionists in Northern Ireland are Scottish in origin.

How would you see the UK surviving Brexit, especially a no-deal Brexit? 

Would that mean Scottish people would have to report to a police station every 24 hours, and be barred from public office?

To what extent does anyone own anything?

We don't have to formally own the place to petition our elected representatives to cease spending tax revenue on it. If we ignored the place for long enough, someone else would take it on. 

England and Wales will survive Brexit. Northern Ireland might not with the way things are going...

In the run up to the referendum it was difficult to determine how Northern Ireland would vote. There were times when I wondered whether Northern Ireland should not be included in the referendum, or a second referendum held in Northern Ireland if its electorate was larger than the winning margin from the mainland.

When the results were coming through there was a clear Protestant / Unionist and Catholic / Republican split to the vote. The only significant exception was North Down but then that's demographically similar to Surrey!

The problem is further complicated by both the Conservatives and UKIP uncompromisingly hell bent on maintaining the Union at almost any costs.

A possible solution would be to split the UK into two countries - England with Wales as its dominion and Scotland with Northern Ireland as its dominion. The first leaves the EU but the second remains in the EU.

Autistics own Northern Ireland? Wow. Mind you that might explain the fear of change and inflexibility of thought............

I am not sure you need to have an understanding of economics to recognise that no government likes to lose face in the eyes of the world, which is why I think the whole thing will topple into a no-deal situation. 

Cassandro said:

Have you been reading Sylvie Krin in Private Eye?

Haven't read Eye for years, I'm afraid; I had to stop because it made me too angry...(!)