Stepping out on my own! - breaking ties rather than keep trying to conform and failing

Her book is worth a read too... but most of its content is on the site :)

Wow! That link describes a carbon copy of my own relationship! Spooky  : /  

Space is importance and is needed to rebalance, process and recentre. I won’t at this stage respond to your post in more detail but will shortly as you make such pertinent points.

https://musingsofanaspie.com/2012/10/22/lessons-from-an-aspergers-nt-marriage-part-1/

The above was worth a read for me... part 3, point 6 in particular ...

Ellie

Tsk.

With Mogwai comes much responsibility...

I totally get your post and thank you for your time in writing such an honest and open reply. 

This Elephant is indeed worn out

Hello, I just received diagnosis March this year, but the penny had begun to drop with me for a few years; always felt uncomfortable and 'outside' of things, spent many years trying to 'fit' because I thought I should and that I should 'get used to it' and that I must be socially inadequate / socially anxious. The I reached a point where I realised more and more that I am genuinely happier in my own space and I do not NEED to put myself through any of the crippling social discomfort and sensory assault /information overload that I was torturing myself with. I am aware that not everyone on the spectrum seeks and genuinely enjoys solitude as I do, but a turning point for me was in my late 30s when I realised 'there is nothing wrong with me, this is just how I am wired and actually I quite like it'. In the last year or so, further extricating myself from family and social expectations has been more of a challenge and there's always got to be compromise to a degree, as long as I can get across to family just how massively difficult it has been for me; 'fitting in' and living up to the expectations of my 'normal' roles.. all my life; 'could do better' has always in reality me stretching myself way beyond what I am equipped to cope with and I am just not going to do it anymore. I hope I am not oversimplifying or belittling your situation, but 'fitting in' can be very bad for your mental health; its nice to just feel happy with who you are and how you tick - carve your own path in your own space and time as far as you possibly can and definitely be wary of 'shoulds' and 'shouldn'ts'. So, on balance, it is working out well for me, but some aspects of life are more challenging and ultimately I do not want to upset the tiny number of people I care about (wife and two grown up children), but I'm done with overstretching my capabilities and prepared to go it absolutely alone if I need to. There was a time when my wife (hard working and patience of a saint I must add) worked lots of night shifts and long days..and before my children moved back home..I didn't fully realise I was on the spectrum and it dawned on me that I really did enjoy all of that time and space alone and asked myself if I should feel bad about that. Now I know that I absolutely need that time and space, it is massively beneficial to my mental health. Sorry if I'm hijacking your post or missing the point, just thought a perspective on going it alone and not jumping through hoops might help :0)       

In answering this i am very aware that people have to act a certain way around me, but and it's a big but I don't do any harm either physically, mentally or emotionally by this, so back to you. It is very easy to accept people's bad behaviour and to normalize it, or make changes in your behaviour so their bad behaviour isn't prompted but their bad behaviour is not your fault.

I don't know anything of your situation but Ellie if the reference to his refusal to accept no is a sexual one then I'm sure you do know that rape is rape even in a marriage. 

while I would possibly agree that he may have a personality disorder that doesn't mean you have to bear the brunt of it.

do you love him? not are you used to him but do you live him, the him you have now? 

You have said that you need space and calm, I agree and I would take it if I were you.

I think i might be rambling on so I'm going to stop for the moment.

Also I am worried I am being to heavy so if I am I am sorry

Morning Song

Thank you for your offer to be so open about your own situation. 

At the moment, confusion abounds in terms of who I can trust and who I cannot and trying to understand the behaviours and motives of others are always a challenge particularly when considering the best way forward.

Two central issues are apparent, however, firstly his non acceptance of the word "no", and the fact that others accept his behaviour and therefore it becomes normalised - "you know what he's like".... then the behaviour is forgotten and we carry on.

I can rationalise things in terms that his past has meant that he lacks the ability to articulate feelings verbally and his temperment can swing from kindness to coercive and can recognise this as a personality disorder. 

I do wonder if he ever contemplates the impact that his behaviour has or feels guilt.... or maybe that is me being too kind and trying to excuse his behaviour and "humanise" him.

My head is rather "soup" like at the moment with lots going on and the practicalities going forward, quite a challenge.

thank you

Ellie i think I must have miss written. I am in a good place now and have been for decades, I escaped.

gritting your teeth, trying to cling to a sense of self and overcompensating is not healthy. You are a bright clever woman, you don't have to put up with being bullied, belittled, and "behaving" to avoid violence. You don't deserve what you are getting.

if you walk away you haven't failed. You can still have your pride.

Please do not allow your sense of self worth to be chipped away so much that you no longer exist.

Thank you Song. 

I’m at the hospital at the moment visiting my OH. I’m sure that my situation is not as bad as yours but do feel like one of life’s hobos trying to steer a straight course and never quite belonging... flitting from place to place until I’m no longer wanted.

The day to day is manageable as long as you grit teeth, cling onto pride and overcompensate by always trying to do the right thing and comply.

Im not the easiest of people ... a hungry mind and a soul that needs feeding with calm and positive action.

a good friend of mine once said that due to such a chipped away sense of self worth I have chosen what I think is “good enough” for me. But invariably it is not....I need more space, I need to breathe

i hope you’re ok. 

Hi Ellie. I am no good at wise words. If you want to chat message me. I have left everything behind to escape the violence and abuse but I was 18, a long long time ago. My life has had its ups and downs since then, not all of them healthy but had i stayed at home either they would have killed me or broken me even more.

the question I ask is Ellie if I sat down with you and told you the things that are in your life, what would you advise me to do?say

Song

....they’re like Gremlins .. x

Oh i like my acronym :) Hadn't noticed that before!

It is very tiring to be trying your best all the time and yet still be told it's wrong. Sorry about your family, i didn't realise x

Yes... it’s been a while since I’ve read Plato’s cave... you are as bright and perceptive as always DT.... I will try and slowly accustom myself to the sunlight...

I hope you are well

. said:

The existential question (one of many) is who built the cage?

Recall or consider anew perhaps the information via the following link:

https://web.stanford.edu/class/ihum40/cave.pdf

The existential question (one of many) is who built the cage? I find myself at this juncture but am fully conscious that is partly of my own making. To be in an environment of such behaviours makes me also complicit in that I have accepted them...

“LAYERS OF CONSCIOUSNESS: GESTALT MOMENTS OF PERSONAL CONSCIOUSNESS.

Imagine an HOUR GLASS and at the top of the hour glass we have THE ROLES we play (as if /sympathetic/ clichés/ manipulation)...The games we play within those roles are: helpless, keeper, good boy, stoker, ego ideal, Personal, self systems. The way to get out of those roles is to: 1. Give up selling yourself, 2. Give up your self ego, 3. What would happen if I stop pretending?As we move down the hour glass, before we land in the middle, we come to the PHOBIC STAGE... (Fear of pain, interruption, confusion compulsive repetition)...In this space we are afraid to be what we are. It is where our addictions, attitudes, dread, unwilling to go through pain, maintaining the status quo... The way out is: 1. Develop discipline, 2. Be willing to suffer pain, 3. Encounter unpleasantness, 4. Discover what you want to do...WHAT DO YOU WANT?

In the center, you are in the IMPASSE, (stuck, emptiness-- loss) You are at CENTER OF THE NEUROSIS (Blue baby, not willing to see fantasy based distortion) The way out of this is: 1. Make existential leap, 2. Rebirth, 3. Here and Now with experiences, 4. Jump into the void (not the a void dance), 4. Give up the fantasy of being stuck.

The next step is IMPLOSION (frozen, contraction, compressed) This is a place experienced as autistic (catatonic--nothingness, convoluted impatience, potential violence, double bind. The way out is 1. Reinvest vital energy, 2. Come to your senses, 3. Become response able, 4. Use your own resources, 5. Rekindle primary vibrancy. This most often happens with several of the outer planets making aspects to the angles..or luminaries...will cause people to seek out help because it hurts too much to not seek help

The Final Step is EXPLOSION (Authenticity) ...the way we see this acted out is a Real Person, being mobilized, spontaneous, truthful, adapting to life and alive with energy. The way we maintain that state of being is 1. I am what I am, 2. Give yourself grace, 3. Call on creative transformation, 4. Will yourself out of existence, 5. Thy will be done.”

Morning

Yes, in short, we must all learn to balance and adjust, fitting our boundaries into a socially acceptable gestalt... but to what extent?. Many disturbances in individuals arise from the inability to find and maintain the proper balance between self and the rest of the world.... maybe that is a greater risk when you don’t know or understand the rules.

Whether that is just a feminist issue, however, as we all wear many hats of partner, parent, employee, member of society etc.

Yes, there should also be a degree of societal conformity in case life turns into a Hobbesian nightmare....who decides the balance and should some be more constrained than others? Some individuals are more bullish than others, and some exist in quiet passivity.

”THE INTROJECTOR DOES AS OTHERS WOULD LIKE HIM TO DO,
THE PROJECTOR DOES UNTO OTHERS WHAT HE ACCUSES THEM OF DOING TO HIM,
THE CONFLUENT PERSON DOESN'T KNOW WHO IS DOING WHAT TO WHOM,
RETROFLECTOR DOES TO HIMSELF WHAT HE WOULD LIKE TO DO TO OTHERS.”

http://zencaroline.blogspot.co.uk/2009/07/gestalt-processes-explained.html

Understood.

I've generally been 'passive' and serving others. In fact, I seem to rely on other people making decisions about what to do, except on the rare occasions something strongly engages my ethical values. But every elephant needs space to do their own thing and pursue a PhD.

Isn't this all a fundamental issue that feminism tries to deal with? And 'assertiveness', like Anne Dickson's A Woman in Your Own Right; and forms of psychology like Gestalt about people's psychological boundaries becoming 'blurred' by confluence and introjection so that one person tries to take responsibility for another.

This all feels part of a natural process. From self diagnosing last year there has been a gradual and careful quiet unpacking of self.

It is noticeable on the forum with members receiving diagnosis or reaching their own self realisation and acceptance. Some seek acceptance from others, some do not. Below is the much published five stages of grief and with a little tweaking it could easily fit that diagnostic cycle.

1. Denial and isolation; - what?, why me? yes? No, you can’t be, don’t be silly?

2. Anger; - As the masking effects of denial and isolation begin to wear, reality and its pain re-emerge. Am I ready / able to process this?

3. Bargaining; - a need to regain control through a series of “If only” statements, such as: if only I knew this earlier, what would/could have been different

4. Depression; - a reaction to practical implications relating to this self realisation and a quiet preparation to separate and to bid goodbye to what has come before

5. Acceptance - just as it says on the tin in whatever form it takes

who knows if I’ll have the “balls” to take ownership of where I am... but at present I am here, I am me and I am taking the time to consider everything 

Thank you for your care and diligence and I’m sorry if my response shocked you. The cohersive and controlling situation I am in at the moment is manageable but not healthy and denies me the opportunity to be my true self or be understood.

It lends itself to that slow clipping away of self worth and agency. Yes, at times and at extremes it can be violent and horrid and I am mindful that others know my partners tempernent and blind site it all. 

At the moment my OH is in hospital but I am still micromanaged which seems like a blurred mix of care but also a need to control.... I edited quite a lot of my posts yesterday out of panic in terms of who might read all this. That made me sad as we all need small places where we can be ourselves.

i am not an outrageous elephant by temperament... I am not about to run wild, start sordid affairs, stay out late or paint the town red.. lLike most aspies I seek peace and an environment in which I can feel centred, where I can read books, go for walks in the countryside, meet with friends, maybe even start my PhD.

i want a quiet life, I am content sitting on the periphery of things and my self diagnosis last year was in itself an epiphany in that there is me, this elephant in the room, which has been disregarded and discarded because I am different and require a little more work than some to understand.

I am a capable provider... i scuttle around each day doing others bidding and that seems to be my role. I seem to have been forgotten or discarded as an individual. Maybe it is because I have discarded myself or do so just in order to keep my head above the water line.

thank you everyone for their posts. This is not the cheeriest of reads but as always everyone’s honesty and care shines through 

x