Hans Asperger

Who exactly is this Herwig Czech and what are his motivations for carrying out this research?

Something that I'm concerned about is how this is spread like wildfire through the mainstream media. It seems like every English language media source has run away with the story. In contrast Lorna Wing's 1981 paper remained a near secret outside of a small circle of academics for over 10 years. It was referenced by media sources in her obituary but how many journalists even knew of its existence back in the 1980s? Even references to the milestone books about Asperger syndrome by Uta Frith and Tony Attwood have only had a minimal mention in the mainstream media and often years after they were published.

I can't help but thinking that there is some malevolent behind the scenes project going on by certain factions of the Jewish community to discredit Hans Asperger.

It's the beginning of the end of Asperger syndrome. In a few years it will be labelled as just autism but the clock will also be turned back so that the only autism which counts will be traditional Kanner autism. Anybody who still wants to push AS (regardless of what it's called) will be vilified as a sympathiser of a Nazi war criminal.

I suspect that Lorna Wing, Uta Frith, and Tony Attwood will be consigned to the dustbin of history as naïve fools who just wanted to make a name for themselves whilst failing to understand who Hans Asperger was. So will Luke Jackson. I also suspect that JKP will stop publishing books about AS. 

The eugenics is a mere side show. There was plenty of support for eugenics in Britain both during the early 20th century and today. It's collaborating with the *** that's Hans Asperger's crime. This is just as unforgiveable in academia as it is in the real world.

Do not forget Hans Asperger was not accused  of Killing Jews and do not forget most of the world was at War with Nazi Germany.  Hans Asperger was accused of not only been a member of the Nazi party but also referring disabled children to a clinic in Vienna to be murdered.  He would not refer a child with Asperger Syndrome to be murdered because it could be made use of but if the child was profoundly Autistic I expect it would be sent to the clinic to be murdered.   Do you want to be regarded as one of Hans Asperger people?

  The war was started because Hitler invaded Poland and refused to leave Poland.  It was not a Jewish War.  I know that there has always been abuse of disabled people but the Nazi era was uniquely horrible.  I am sure that if  Hans Asperger had not lived we would be aware that you can be on the Spectrum without being Autistic.   Asperger Syndrome has been replaced with Autistic Spectrum Disorder so it should not make that much difference.

Do not forget Hans Asperger was not accused  of Killing Jews and do not forget most of the world was at War with Nazi Germany.  Hans Asperger was accused of not only been a member of the Nazi party but also referring disabled children to a clinic in Vienna to be murdered.  He would not refer a child with Asperger Syndrome to be murdered because it could be made use of but if the child was profoundly Autistic I expect it would be sent to the clinic to be murdered.   Do you want to be regarded as one of Hans Asperger people?

  The war was started because Hitler invaded Poland and refused to leave Poland.  It was not a Jewish War.  I know that there has always been abuse of disabled people but the Nazi era was uniquely horrible.  I am sure that if  Hans Asperger had not lived we would be aware that you can be on the Spectrum without being Autistic.   Asperger Syndrome has been replaced with Autistic Spectrum Disorder so it should not make that much difference.

David said:

I must admit I have not studied all the issues re Hans Asperger and I do not know if he saved anyone.

Despite the fact that as a Jew Walter had every reason to panic, his fearful reaction was held against him. The entry of that day (not in Asperger’s handwriting) stated that Walter “is much more disagreeable than three weeks ago, when he was [last] here. During Hitler’s speech, he put his head into his hands on the table and stared into a void. He was very agitated; when a child broke out in cheers he opened his eyes wide and turned pale.” Asperger’s diagnosis all but ignored the boy’s precarious situation and framed his mental troubles as follows: “severe psychopathy, with a particular sensitivity and paranoid irritability.” Asperger thus pathologized and de-politicized the boy’s reactions to the anti-Jewish persecution then pervading the city; based on the same logic, in a formulation that was perhaps meant as an act of generosity, he stressed that Walter could not be held fully responsible for his sometimes aggressive reactions. In his diagnosis, Asperger omitted the fact that Walter was Jewish and that his life was under threat from the Nazi regime.

https://molecularautism.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13229-018-0208-6

So now you do know that Dr Asperger did save someone :-)

David said:

Yes it might be true that Hans Asperger saved some Autistic people at the higher functioning end.

It is not the case that it 'might be true', as it is on official records and on account of which reported by researchers and authors as being true, and those with higher functioning autism are on record as being discharged to family members, other institutions and so fourth. Czech's paper at very least covers this matter.

David said:

I have sent  E Mails to Carol at the NAS my views.  I do not think we can do anything in this forum.  I will not tolerate Anti-Semitic personal remarks and I will E Mail the moderator

Being Anti-Semitic means being 'hostile to or prejudiced against Jews' ~ which has no relationship with or relevance to anything written to you here by others or myself.

Continued prejudice (preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience) is not becoming of an NAS community member, and this issue has been addressed with you politely several times over by other community members, including again here quite frankly now by myself.

David said:

I do not think the Police would do anything as they would say Deepthought is Autistic and does not know what offence his remarks can cause.

No, the Police would do nothing unless you kept on pushing them to do so, which would then involve them having to prevent you from doing as much.

Contact an NAS Moderator to confirm this, perhaps.

Or ~ be compassionate with yourself, and show respect for others :-)

Lots of western history describes the war as starting on 3 September 1939, but actually it was already underway by mid-1937:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sino-Japanese_War

Who is anti-semitic? Unless some posts have been deleted since I last looked at this thread, I have seen no evidence to support that apparent accusation?

All of you are of course entirely free to choose which terms you wish to use, based on your own conscience.

I will continue to use Asperger.

Some people may complain that this "honours" someone associated with an appalling regime, but from my point of view it is nothing to do with honour, and everything to do with maintaining established historical fact.

If Asperger (regardless of how evil he may have been) was the first person to identify the condition, it should carry his name. To do otherwise is a very troubling alternative, because I believe it to be a slippery slope towards a "1984-esque" world where we are constantly airbrushing history:

"We have always been at war with Eastasia".

Consider this:

If we reject Asperger, then by implication his henchman Georg Frankl is similarly tainted?

Frankl switched from working with Asperger to working with Kanner in 1938. Although 1938 is before the invasion of Poland, it was well after the April 1933 beginnings of discrimination against Jewish people. It seems Frankl even stuck around with Asperger for roughly three years after the 1935 establishment of the so called Nuremberg Laws. Therefore Frankl was assisting the regime as a collaborator. Since Frankl went to assist Kanner in 1938, if you believe that Asperger's work is tainted, so must Kanner's, because of his close association with an apparent collaborator?

This is an unworkable way of thinking, because there will be no end to it:

1. We won't be able to talk about Roman baths, because the Romans also persecuted Christians, had slaves and enjoyed gladiatorial combat. Their policy of decimation was inhumane.
2. We can't describe anything as British, because the British Empire did terrible things (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/worst-atrocities-british-empire-amritsar-boer-war-concentration-camp-mau-mau-a7612176.html).
3. We can't describe anything as American, because the state was founded in racist ideology. Jefferson's claim in the United States Declaration of Independence "that all men are created equal" is misunderstood by modern readers. Jefferson "owned" roughly 600 slaves in his lifetime. Therefore, the words in the declaration penned by him actually meant WHITE MEN, i.e. not men of any other colour, nor women...

Yes it might be true that Hans Asperger saved some Autistic people at the higher functioning end.  I have sent  E Mails to Carol at the NAS my views.  I do not think we can do anything in this forum.  I will not tolerate Anti-Semitic personal remarks and I will E Mail the moderator.  I do not think the Police would do anything as they would say Deepthought is Autistic and does not know what offence his remarks can cause.

David said:

Do you want to be regarded as one of Hans Asperger people?

David, as an individual you can identify with whichever diagnostic system you find more culturally befitting for you, just as any other individual can identify with which ever diagnostic system that is personally more befitting for them.

Be compassionate with yourself, and show respect for others.

David said:

I must admit I have not studied all the issues re Hans Asperger and I do not know if he saved anyone.   People on the Higher functioning end do not get as much attention and there is the Asperger Foundation if it is still there.

In contrast to the present day regarding the least socially functional receiving state assistance ~ Hans Asperger made and won the case not to exterminate patients that would prove useful to the third reich, and rather assist these patients to develop their higher functional abilities instead.

Yes the causes of the Second World War are complex but it certainly was not a Jewish War..  I must admit I have not studied all the issues re Hans Asperger and I do not know if he saved anyone.   People on the Higher functioning end do not get as much attention and there is the Asperger Foundation if it is still there.

I think Asperger was working in the 'grey zone', as described in Neurotribes.  For a particularly disturbing dramatisation of 'kill or be killed', see the film Son of Saul.

It was very much a kill or be killed culture in Austria at the time...

I can't help wondering whether his alleged Nazi credentials following the research of Herwig Czech were pure theatre in order to cover his back and deceive the powers that be. Such behavioural traits may have been more desirable than fleeing Austria at the time.

Asperger was not in charge of the involuntary so-called 'euthanasia' of disabled people, but not investigating the consequences of his actions would have been a crime, morally speaking. As I said, I haven't read the paper in full, but can a case still be made that his autistic patients without a learning disability would have been killed if it were not for his clinic?

David said:

The war was started because Hitler invaded Poland and refused to leave Poland

If you get your knowledge of history from school and TV documentaries.

It's more complex than this in reality.