pathological demand avoidance

sorry it takes me so long..,,I get so obsessed with the stuff I have to do and sometimes for several days I am scared to look online, and when I do I just catch up on emails.  Yes, I agree, labels and boxes can make some people feel better.  I haven't looked at the DSM yet -- I know the personality disorder bit because I deliver a pd training locally but haven't really bothered with the rest of it.

(So do I have autism or emotionally unstable PD....or both?)

I have a huge amount of anxiety so have recently started researching autism and anxiety. so \I will ask you, Blank, do you get a lot of anxiety?  It does seem to be common with autism but they don't know how the two are related.

I can relate to perfectionism and OCD. And have always thought I had at least a couple of the other P's

I'll ask the psychologist who did the assessment what she thinks.

That boxes thing isn't really my line of thinking. But I see how it can be a relief. Like: I'm this and this - finally an answer. And the terms only stretch so far. I think the entire DSM-5 thing is vague.

I'm sorry I haven't had time to keep up with this conversation for two weeks....

Anyway...I have been wondering whether the PDA version of autism is in some way related to perfectionism and OCD. Maybe people who have those qualities have some autistic features, but on a very low level where it is not recognised. 

All these words (perfectionism, PDA, personality disorder, psychosis...lots of P's coming into my head for some reason) ….. these are all descriptive terms that people like doctors, researchers, psychologists, etc. come up with, to try to describe what they are seeing in people.  They aren't boxes to put people into, saying "You re that, so you can't be this".   

Oh, no worries! I am not someone who worries about myself at all! Actually I don't care much what I do or do not have. I do like to see what I could have, and then want to hear if I really do or don't.

I worry about every day things. And try not to. :-)

Ever considered being a perfectionist instead of having PDA?

After sending that last post, I wondered if perhaps it wasn't very helpful.  Maybe a bit too positive? You have just had the diagnosis and it is obviously worrying you.  I haven't been diagnosed, but a few days ago, when I started thinking I probably had some version of PDA, I felt terrible!

Since then I have been trying to focus on the more positive sides --  that it is a better explanation of what has happened in my life than what I thought before. 

But I am still getting the same intense anxiety when I try to do stuff -- thinking that either I don't want to do it, or that if I do, it is all going to be wrong.  Then I start worrying about everything that I haven't done that I should have done.  All the people I should be getting in touch with that I haven't got in touch with. All that stuff...

Well I am going to shut up now and stop going on about myself, hope you can start feeling a bit better about things, at least I think it is a way of beginning to understand what is going on with us.

I don't think I do much manipulating -- it wouldn't have been possible to manipulate my dad anyway!  I think I do have what you call lack of hierarchy understanding.  But then, I grew up in the Sixties, when we were all challenging hierarchy -- is it such a bad thing not to recognise it?  If it means not being scared of speaking up in meetings when there are people there who are much "higher up" than you are, I think it's a good thing.

I had a difficult father like that, so maybe there is a relationship?

I suspect it does overlap, so maybe you don't need to differentiate.  We can have all sorts of experiences and all sorts of labels, and it can take a long time to figure out which fits what.  I think it's fine to consult the professionals and listen to them (and read stuff online if it's legitimate), but experts don't know everything, and they are getting most of their information from our experiences.

I always thought my self-sabotage came from childhood, from being made to feel "wrong" all the time, but now I wonder whether there was something else involved -- something resembling PDA.  I still think my childhood was not that good -- it is possible that my father had his own version of PDA and we were both going around being frightened and angry all the time!

Aiiii, had not heard of it before but that sounds like ME... I've got classic autism (well, the DSM-5 thing where you check all the boxes) but you would never ever be able to tell. BUT I have meltdowns when I get forces in social interactions. And I have a nasty manipulative side. And I avoid lots of situations. And have a major lack of hierarchy understanding.

When I was little I was always manipulating others into doing what I wanted.

Wasn't aware this even existed. Only got diagnosed some weeks ago.

Thanks for the post!

Thanks for your reply.  Would have been nice to hear from others too but I guess it's not that common.  I'm trying to differentiate between self sabotaging behaviour versus PDA and whether the too over lap in any way.

Well I don't know whether you are still visiting the site, but I think I have some aspects of this condition.  The "rigid reluctance" thing (I didn't see that, where was it on the site?) certainly applies to me.  I don't really avoid things other people ask me to do, as long as they ask and don't demand, but trying to get myself to do things is difficult.

Hi Gradvlax,

I am sure there will be other useful responses from the community.

In the meantime, I know you've said you have read this but I am re-posting for general information page on PDA from the NAS site (in case other people read this post and find the info useful).   It tells you what PDA is, the characteristics and the process for getting an assessment of PDA: http://www.autism.org.uk/about/what-is/pda.aspx

The PDA Society has information that takes you through the process of getting a diagnosis step by step, so though this might be helpful as well: https://www.pdasociety.org.uk/families/diagnosing-pda

Hope this helps,

Nicky-Mod