DWP to target those with disabilities including Autism and Aspergers

I think the issue here is that autism is a spectrum. There are many who will not be helped by this initiative, because their needs are greater. This should be given a trial. The DWP will seek to get some people back into work, spending not too much and evaluate whether it is working. Those with less diability may be helped and feedback will help to improve what is on offer, or end it, if it fails to get people into work. One size fits all will never work for all, but if there is currently no help, then should we deny help to a few because many will not benefit. Everyone out there needs to learn from experience whathelps people on the spectrum get and keep employment. They need to start somewhere. Drugs are trialed on a few, but eventually made available if they work. Let them try, and learn. If lots of people attend this course and do not end up finding work at the end, then they will know it has failed to help. They don't appear, from what I have read here, to be saying that people will lose benefits if they do not get a job in the end, only if they don't attend training. We should keep an open mind and try these things. Only then do people in power learn about the problems and adjust what is offered and expand it to help those with greater disabilities. Very few things in this life are perfect from day one.

If my own experience is anything to go by, this DWP programme is fundamentally flawed. Even parents and carers of those considered high functioning will be aware that the constant need for reassurance and to keep some with Aspergers ‘on task’ can be a huge barrier to work. Weekly sessions aren’t going to address that. A person in the midst of a meltdown or a crisis of confidence needs support in the moment, not as part of a weekly of fortnightly, DWP timetabled programme of support. Additionally, some of the lack of self-awareness that can also accompany the condition, could indeed mislead a DWP support worker into believing that a candidate is coping when the opposite is true.

My son told a sleep consultant recently that he went to bed at 10pm each night and was getting up fine the next morning. (He has a sleep Syndrome that deeply affects his everyday function.) The previous night and for weeks prior to his appointment he was not in bed before 3am and needed considerable assistance to get up the following morning, yet he chose to tell the consultant of the two occasion’s in that month that he had achieved a successful nights sleep. I don’t believe this was a deliberate act on his part to deceive the consultant, more a desire to want to please or celebrate his achievement. The upshot being however, is that the consultant is left believing that my son can probably cope with a 9-5pm sometime in the future, when previous attempts at that have brought him to total meltdown and severe depression and his family to near breaking point.

He explained that he wanted to learn to live with and work around his condition meaning that he wanted to be able to work afternoons and when he felt he could manage. (Ie when the fatigue least affected his function.) The solution for him is a simple one, but the practicalities of this are clearly not acceptable in the mainstream world of work. He wants to work, but should be allowed to on his terms and in keeping with his needs. The ‘one programme fits all’ mentality to supporting those with Aspergers in the working environment is not realistic, nor achievable in my opinion and is likely to cause further distress to many who struggle with the everyday anxiety that can plague their lives. At a time when mental health support is being severely cut, I believe it will be left to families and carers to pick up the pieces.

anewman said:

"The aim of the provision is to provide in depth support to assist claimants focus their minds on the activities and behaviours required to obtain and sustain employment. The claimants, who are in receipt of either Jobseekers Allowance (JSA) or Employment Support Allowance (ESA) will receive a highly personalised, individual, realistic, learning and employability programme, which is structured, focused and tailored to each claimant’s specific needs. This will include tackling complex barriers, as well as worklessness, motivation, interaction, anxiety concerns, and concentration issues."

https://www.contractsfinder.businesslink.gov.uk/Common/View%20Notice.aspx?NoticeId=1702143

If this was offered by a school or doctor, would we not see it in a more positive light?

People who have difficulty getting a job get very demoralised and some give up, especially if it's their first job.

Perhaps the department of employment are seeking to help. Their are some very able people languishing on benefits, who might just break into the world of employment and put the associated poverty behind them. We can all learn new skills, who cares really which purse pays the teacher.

The department will also get feedback on every course they pay for, including any success in getting people into permanent jobs. They may well learn a lot from this. It may not be perfect, but why not see if it evolves into something good.

i don't have any of those skills, apart from punctuality, because when the bus is every 2 hours you do make sure you get it!

"There may be a range of co-occurring difficulties which can also have serious negative impacts on daily life. These include social and emotional difficulties as well as problems with time management, planning and personal organisation, and these may also affect an adult’s education or employment experiences.
Many people with DCD also experience difficulties with memory, perception and processing. While DCD is often regarded as an umbrella term to cover motor coordination difficulties, dyspraxia refers to those people who have additional problems planning, organising and carrying out movements in the right order in everyday situations. Dyspraxia can also affect articulation and speech, perception and thought."

www.dyspraxiafoundation.org.uk/.../

you can't be diagnosed with dyspraxia if you have autism because a diagnosis of autism subsumes one of dyspraxia, ie it overlaps so much that dyspraxia is counted as just part of your autism symptoms. So i can't be the only one! Its effects include i can't type because i can't coordinate my hands.

06/03/2013

The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) has been ordered to pay
a woman with Asperger's syndrome a total of £70,000 after an
employment tribunal found it to be guilty of disability
discrimination.

The Business Disability Forum has reported that the tribunal, held
in Dundee, heard how the woman was asked to return to work but felt
that a breakdown in trust and confidence led to high levels of
anxiety which she was unable to overcome.

The DWP was judged to have subjected the claimant to harassment due
to her Asperger's. The syndrome, which is a form of autism, shows
no outward signs but can cause difficulties in social communication
and interaction.

Many people with Asperger's syndrome have a variety of skills that
enable them to thrive in a variety of roles. However, they are
often disadvantaged when it comes to securing employment because of
their difficulties with social skills.

The National Autistic Society said that many employers do not
realise that people with some autism spectrum disorders, such as
Asperger's syndrome, can be highly skilled and qualified as well as
being extremely employable.

The tribunal initially awarded damages to the claimant of £54,000
as compensation for constructive unfair dismissal and disability
discrimination. In a further hearing, another £17,500 was ordered
to be paid by the DWP for failing to comply with a re-employment
ruling.

Judge Ian McFatridge said that the DWP had "treated the claimant
extremely badly".

"We were required to take into account the fact that the claimant
is psychologically unable to return to work with the respondents
and that this is something which has been brought on by the
respondents’ treatment of her," he explained.

A DWP spokesperson said that it acknowledged the tribunal’s
findings and works hard to ensure that it achieves its commitments
to good practice in employing and working with disabled people.

Requiring people with autism to undergo this sort of therapy is problematic, in my view, because it does nothing to solve the root problems or address the complex and individual needs of people with autism - people with autism are more likely to suffer from mental health issues, less likely to have the sort of social network and support that most people take for granted, and in addition intrinsic autistic qualities are highly individual and often poorly understood by health workers. Without a real holistic solution that involves practical and social support this will do nothing to help.

The reality is also that the current context of high demand for a relatively small number of jobs, and the increasing amount of work based around zero hours and unpredictable hours that people with autism are less likely to be able to cope with, both tend to impact people with autism to a greater extent.

To relate on a more personal level, I'm a 26-year-old with an Aspergers diagnosis and actually getting support is an impossible task despite the large and measurable impact that the disability has. There are no social groups that I can find, very little help to find employment (an autism charity scheme with a three month waiting list), and social support is plainly under-resourced and will do everything they can to avoid following through when you are actually able to get in contact. To be more bluntly political, this is the life being choked out of those of us with needs by the government, whose austerity agenda has measurably stolen from the poor and given to the rich. The simplistic analysis implied by the decision to make autistic people undergo therapy underlines the government's ideology quite well.

the trick is matching the auistic person with a job that incorperates his/her interest. I honestly believe we are natures specialists and we need to practice our specialites in order to avoid damage to mental health.

It so distresses me that NAS cannot see that they are acting irresponsibly. NAS seem to think that by making these claims it will get people with autism into employment. All it does is annoy employers who cannot see any evidence for these claims.

To get back to anewman's original posting, he is concerned with this "highly personalised, individual, realistic, learning and employability programme" that he is supposed to get from JSA and ESA staff. It isn't helpful, perhaps because it is based on mis-information about the difficulties faced by people on the autistic spectrum.

Freud's statement in 2012 probably represents the DWP's understanding of autism and the problems faced in the workplace. So is this picture helping people like anewman?

"reliable, punctual and loyal" - is that strictly accurate? Well punctual is a debateable issue for many of us. Reliable in what sense? If we cannot understand instructions and get things wrong, is that being reliable? And where does this loyalty thing come from? - I think I know, but it is a crude oversimplification of complex behavioural issues that don't follow for everyone.

good attention to detail - just because someone gets very focussed at their special interest doesn't translate into every aspect of a job. Sometimes people on the spectrum perceive a task as pointless, and choose to ignore it.

concentration levels - in certain contexts yes, but again, is that going to be uiniversally manifested on the job? I doubt it.

excellent problem solving skills - I'd agree (it is how I maintained a career - I'm brilliant at this). This has been demonstrated many times, but by people at the abler end (the ones NAS doesn't count as really having autism). When people are overly focussed on narrow special interests and have poor central coherence and organising skills, how does that translate into "excellent problem solving skills" in the workplace?

analytical - as above, but again, across a job, as distinct from special interests?

resourceful and creative - usually people on the spectrum don't have these qualities

Where did Freud get this from? I suspect it came from NAS, directly or indirectly.

It isn't doing people on the spectrum any good making up bogus work aptitudes. Employers can see there is more to it, and it doesn't work out in practice NAS needs to start acting responsibly.

It particularly worries me that these training packages, the content of which we can only find out by paying £250 and going on one of them, are based around these ridiculous and far fetched claims.

I have always been worried about arriving late for appointments. So I always end up leaving too early. At school I would arrive long before I needed to because I was petrified of the consequences of being late, and at one point I was setting off for school before 7. This has followed me through life.

Is that, I wonder, "good timekeeping"

I really wish NAS would stop pedalling these myths.

I had similar issues with time keeping, but the worst was my health. So stressed that I was always really ill.

Working for myself doesn't eliminate stress entirely, but does make it more managable. Time keeping is no longer an issue because I work my own hours. Thing is, it has to be done around my boys care so it cannot be full time at the moment.

Work is really important to most Aspies, but I think we need to retink it. It needs to be on our terms and in a way that's not injurous to physical and mental health.

For this to be acessable to all, more support is needed. The whole access to work thing was a farce for my son. It was more about what couldn't be done for him rather than what could. His needs are way more severe than mine, but he's desparate to work and earn money. Where's the support? It's all parent driven. It's no wonder parents burn out with it all.

One of my major problems is I have massive problems being on time for anything.  I have lost jobs because of it.  So that stereotype definitely doesn't fit me!

Agreed ATOS is a big factor here. But so is giving an accurate picture of the autism employment situation.

To quote a speech by Lord David Freud, Minister for Welfare Reform 20th March 2012. He had heard from Mark Lever in 2008 that only 15% of adults with autism are in full time work. So in 2011 he set up the Employers Roundtable.

"Employers need to know that it makes good business sense to employ people who are reliable, punctual and loyal; people who have good attention to detail and concentration levels; people who have excellent problem solving skills and can be analytical, resourceful and creative. What good employer wouldn't want an employee with those skills?"

Now that's a very good question. If that describes most people with autism why aren't more people employed? But this doesn't take account of the numbers with comorbid Dyslexia and ADHD. It doesn't take account of the impact of central coherence, social communication problems and a host of other issues. In short its a myth put about by NAS in particular, and the reason employers haven't snapped up these useful employees is that it is not that simple.

There have been a succession of great ideas like this, but are they based on a reliable representation of autism?

And just how old is that 15% in full time employment statistic?  I've found it back to 2008 - that's 7 years ago. Hasn't it changed at all in the past 7 years?

So how much confidence is the DWP and other Govdernment "initiatives" likely to have in these claims? It is time that NAS started acting responsibly.

Google and Atos run Westminster.

It saddens me greatly that NAS has ignored my request for the source of their figures on employment. This really is very important.

THe DWP has been quite harsh up to now assessing people on the spectrum and it has taken a number of attempts to get some easement or adjustment to the assessments. The process is still causing misery to many.

Why is the DWP acting like this? Well the NAS statistics show that autistic spectrum are more than three times less likely to get a job than the figures for disability in general.  In 2012 DWP reckoned 46.3% of the working age disabled population were in work compared to 76.6% able bodied, and reckoned there had been a ten percent improvement from 2002.

Office of Disability Issues (cited by Scope) are similar: 49% versus 78%.

Whereas people on the autistic spectrum (according to NAS) is a static 15%

So how is the DWP likely to approach autism?

NAS has a moral duty to provide adequately sourced and authenticated data. 

NAS figures SUGGEST...........where do these figures come from? I suspect (because I cannot actually find the source) that it comes from voluntarily returned questionaires.

The source could be an annual NAS survey, or a questionnaire circulated through a practical surveyable population, most likely via local NAS branches and parents groups - which only accesses people on the spectrum who have parents who are still members of parents groups past transition!

Given the extensive use of these figures to convince Government departments like DWP, they ought to come from a reliable source like Mori, and the source should be stated every time they are used. Every time these figures are repeated in the media the source is given as NAS. But I cannot find how NAS got these figures.

In America parent power goes well beyond transition, into the world of employment, and there is much more positive and productive exploration of the workplace - eg autismspeaks.org employment think tanks.

In the UK parent groups, which underpin NAS, lose members at transition, because they still only really function up to transition. So numbers going to a parents group after a child with autism spectrum has reached 21 is somewhat smaller.

The training offered to employers isn't transparent - its "a pig in a poke" - you get it when you pay for it. That's not good enough.

NAS is letting down thousands of people on the spectrum moving into adulthood because actual knowledge of the needs and issues still hasn't been properly explored.

I cannot comprehend the way NAS flaunts uncorroborated statistics. This issue is far too important to be a "half baked" approach.

I agree with anewman-fingers crossed a new government get in and help to start supporting people. Instead ofcontrolling people.

I've had nothing but brick walls from ATW with support for one of my sons. I call it 'Denying ATW.' They've closed his case with no support in place, because he didn't have and couldn't afford his own computer. I wouldn't mind, but there were other aspects to his case that could have gone ahead, such as the NAS training course you mentioned above.

This leaves family members, often with ASD themselves, (as in my case) supporting their children whilst spinning the many other plates they suspend above their heads. This not only muddies the waters between being a Carer and a PA, but puts families under extreme strain!

I have two Children with ASD and splitting yourself in two, to support each of their needs simultaneously, is pretty tough at the best of times.

Voluntary work has it's pro's in the quest to access work, but in my sons experience it was an opportunity for employers to take advantage. None of the work he volunteered for amounted to a job at the end, despite repeated promises from the potential employers. I feel this was less about his ability/inability to do the job and more about the fact that employers were taking advantage of free labour at peak times.                 

In a time when the country/world is in economic crisis, employers can be tempted to turn to ever devious ways to cut staffing costs.

Eventually, my son had to go part-time, self-employed because he couldn't find work in our area!

Cue ATW one would think. Nope, No such luck! He's not alone on being let down here, either.

He's never claimed JSA or ESA and needs considerable support to manage his daily living and work support, but no one will help. In terms of stress and physical exhaustion, I'm now at breaking point.

I agree with the comments above. It's employers that need the training, not those with ASD. And targeting those with this type of difficulty is targeting the already vulnerable even further, in my opinion.

According to the National Autistic Society, Only 15% of people with autism are in full time employment, despite the fact that 79% of people with autism on out of work benefits, want to work.

Some statistics published elsewhere, site this statistic as an even lower percentage in work and most of them only work part-time. If those who are more able are having difficulty finding work, what chance do those have who are less able?

In my opinion, the DWP's proposals are likely to cause greater cost and strain on other services. My own husband is testimony to this. He suffered a nervous breakdown and following an ATOS interview, was forced back to work before he'd fully recovered. Within 6 months he had a relapse and was back to square one. Consequently, his therapy costs, medication costs and many other expenses were well beyond what they should have been, not to mention the damage to his self-esteem and mental well-being, which was completely shattered by this point.

The cost ultimately to society was greater, because the DWP believed they needed to save money. Where’s the economic sense in that?   As a man who hardly ever claimed benefits before his nervous breakdown and who genuinely needed support to recover fully, before being pushed back into the working world, this was a reinforcement of his failure to manage in his eyes and prolonged any significant recovery still further.

Has the DWP given any consideration to the effect this policy might have on the mental health and stress of those with ASD & Autism I wonder? - a band aid to fix a broken arm and many months of painful recovery than necessary due to the lack of appropriate treatment or even support- When will the penny finally drop?

This policy stinks and will surely pour fuel onto an already failing ATW program. If ATW did what it said on the tin and delivered appropriate support to those who requested it, then that would be a good start.....Not this tosh.

Another aspect of the problem is the statistic (I am going from recollection) that 85% of people on the spectrum are not in secure employment (or whatever).

My point is, if it is deemed that if you are able to hold down a job long term, you cannot possibly have autism, or must have been misdiagnosed, surely the statistic should be nearer 100%

Conversely, what are the criteria on which that 85% statistic is based?  How many people in work, deemed not to have autism, or "not to count" weren't part of the population from which that percentage was derived?  

What if the reality is that more than 15% of those with a diagnosis are in employment, but the cut-off for the population was not "persons diagnosed", but a test group of people at the more marked end of the spectrum?

The Government, confronted with 85% unemployed, is just coming up with silly ideas like brainwashing, when if there was a clearer official message from NAS we might make greater progress on this.

I think this must relate to some of the outcomes of the Access to Work Scheme, latest report 19th December - "Improving access to work for disabled people"

This seems to be using the Social Model of Disability to create a "level playing field". That is to say they will provide aids and services which supposedly will provide disabled people with an even chance in the job market.

So they propose providing prosthetics, computer software, special purpose laptops, hearing aids, a BSL interpreter - whatever such gestures might supposedly make a difference - and then it'll all be plain sailing.

What I've been trying to point out (having been involved in support in the HE sector), is that level playing field thinking doesn't work well for autism. There isn't a simple prosthetic or device or minor service that will make this supposed difference.

What people on the spectrum need is some way round the need for social interaction - fitting in at work, and recognition of the various other difficulties explained to employers.

But I don't think NAS is sending that kind of message.

I suspect this psychotherapeutic intervention is another quick fix idea for AtW

And yes it is time NAS came clean about what message they have given to the Access to Work programme.