Hans Asperger

• As far as I know Nazi Germany is the only Country to have carried out mass murder of disabled people.  It is true that other countries have sterilized disabled people to prevent more disabled people been born.  I am sure the *** argued that we are not the only people to have killed people and it is true that the USA dropped two atomic bombs on Japan and the
• USA and other democratic countries could still destroy the world with their atomic bombs.  That argument still does not excuse what the *** did.
• We have to wait and see what the experts decide to do about Hans Asperger.
• I got an E Mail from Baron Cohen saying they are still discussing it and he thinks it is a good idea changing it to Wing Syndrome after Lorna Wing. 

A recurring question at my local AS group is what are the differences between the UK and the US when it comes to ASD due to differences in culture and social expectations as well as the effects of a very different education system. Dropping AS from DSM-5 potentially widens the gap as it's what American writers and researchers consult before ICD-10 used in Britain and Europe.

Consequently, we don't think it is a particularly wise decision to have just one country - albeit a big one - dominating the ASD scene worldwide or in English speaking countries. Sometimes we are thankful that Tony Attwood is Australian but we would like to see more findings from non-English speaking countries.

They might have slightly different popular opinions, I suppose.  But does it matter?  If you wanted to find out, you'd either need to carry out opinion polls in those countries, or for anecdotal opinions, ask autistic organisations in each.

A question that has been raised at my local AS group is what do the following two countries think of the findings of Herwig Czech?

1. Austria

2. Israel

Attwood's undoubted strength is in creating more recent understanding of ASD. All credit to Uta Frith and Lorna Wing, but from what I see here we probably need a system of labelling that is not at all eponymous. I reckon that Asperger, his predecessors, Kanner, Frith, Wing and Attwood have all used terms revolving around the idea of autism; as do DSM, ICD, NAS and many others. It is also an acknowledgement that high-functioners have a great deal of common ground with people with more classic presentations; and I'm personally not really sure where I lie on the spectrum anyway. Obviously, if we stick with 'autism', there will eventually have to be more gradations or more specific forms, but that process is already happening anyway. That also would allow some people to continue using Asperger's if they thought it was appropriate. And as I have said before, the movement towards 'autism' may indicate that DSM had some early indications of impending problems with the eponymous label.

Even if he did move to the US he could easily have carried out exactly the same activities over there. The US was very supportive of eugenics in the early 20th century and there is some evidence that the Nazi government were inspired by it and used it as a prototype for their own eugenics projects.

This now goes back to the issue of whether eugenics in a democratic(?!?) country is acceptable but eugenics under a Nazi government is unacceptable.

We could call it Attwood Syndrome but Lorna Wing is the first  person to have written about it outside Austria so they are more likely to use her name.  They might do  what they are doing in the USA and call it all Autism Spectrum.   Calling  it  Wing  or Attwood would be continuing Asperger's work without using his name.  It is a pity that Asperger did not leave Austria in the same way Leo Kanner went to the USA in 1924 before the Hitler era started.

What about Dr Tony Attwood?

http://www.tonyattwood.com.au/

He wrote a book about AS that is often regarded as the gold standard.

It is very simple all new editions would be called Wing Syndrome and at the beginning there would need to be an explanation of the reason.  That way there would not be much disruption.  WING SYNDROME WHICH USED TO BE CALLED ASPERGER SYNDROME.   Why do you not try to contact the relevant people with your views.  You could write to senior people at the NAS.  Not had a reply yet from Professor Howling.

'Wing syndrome' seems a reasonable suggestion.

Do we think therre's any risk that people might think 'you had to change it because of Nazi/child-murderer connotations', therefore you're hiding something about AS/autistic people?

I like what you say about fraternity with institutionalised autistic people.

I don't see it as about censoring the name. I don't know what you mean by an NHS 'ruling'.  They currently mostly use ASD, which should really change ('spectrum' misleads a lot of people into thinking of a continuum of severity, researchers and advocates prefer 'condition' to 'disorder', and 'autism' is much simpler, and is just waiting on being broadened in the public mind.)

Does this mean that books that mention Asperger should cease publication and be taken out of circulation? Read my post about the Video Recordings Act.

Your proposal is not as easy in practice as you think it is.

I actually think that opposition to Asperger will not be by people with ASD or their close associates but by NT folk who do not have any involvement with ASD or professionals who want to protect their image. It's a case of do not mention that Asperger word - he was a very sick and twisted individual.

Will the NHS impose ruling against Asperger on the grounds that it is potentially offensive even if his name appears in ICD-11?

This is completely different because there are issues about the Doctor Hans Asperger.  .  I have suggested that we keep his research but just change the name from Asperger Syndrome  to WING SYNDROME. after the late Lorna Wing.  That is very simple.  .

Arran said:

It's possible that Asperger Syndrome could become an offensive term like referring to people with Down's Syndrome as a Mongol.

I'd be worried by that abuse. Wouldn't marginalising use of 'Asperger' make it less likely though? It seems the change of name from 'The Spastics Society' to 'Scope' has helped reduce discrimination against people with cerebral palsy.

Or do you think removing something from a medical lexicon means it is out of control? Can teachers no longer ask a class 'Do you know what "Mongol" means?'

I know that Hans Asperger was not breaking the laws of Nazi Germany by sending children to their death.    There were five million other victims of the Holocaust   who were not Jewish.  I do not know if Hans Asperger would have been prosecuted  after the war if the evidence had been there in his life time.  I know Otto Schindler saved Jews by being part of the system and employing them.  You seem to suggest that Hans Asperger was another Otto Schindler by saving higher functioning Autistic people.  By accepting his Asperger Syndrome we are implying that it is right to kill people at the lower end of the Spectrum.  I belonged to the London Autism Rights Movement years ago and the founder said that Autistic people in homes are our brothers and sisters according to that logic Hans Asperger saved us but sent our brothers and sisters to their deaths.  We have to wait and see what they decide to do.  I suggested renaming it to Wing Syndrome after the late Lorna Wing.

Uta Frith wrote a reference book for parents, teachers, and educational psychologists, whereas it appears as if Edith Sheffer is writing what I call a coffee table book for casual reading by people who are intrigued by or hate Nazi Germany that have no involvement with anybody with ASD.

I expect it to be a bestseller.

Sheffer's article is at least informative and well-written.  It is arguing:

Does the man behind the name matter? To medical ethics, it does. Naming a disorder after someone is meant to credit and commend, and Asperger merited neither... We should stop saying “Asperger.”

I would say the terminology has little effect on practicalities, although Sheffer also criticises some aspects of Asperger's description as well:

He also called autistic psychopaths “intelligent automata.”

although Sheffer herself has there adopted Asperger's own 'psychopathy' terminology without acknowledging misleading modern resonances of that term.

ISTR the editorial in Molecular Autism (weird journal title: hey, this molecule has problems communicating, and likes to chill out on its own) suggests clinicians will take into account what self-identifying Aspies themselves choose. I think it is right for them to do that. If we decide to retain Asperger, then it may hang on in ICD-11 in some form.

If AU decides to change its name, that could be influential - but I'm sure previous editions would continue to be circulated under their current name.

Doesn't seem to have had much effect on other reporting yet: www.theguardian.com/.../woman-with-aspergers-ejected-from-cinema-for-laughing-at-western

Arran said:

The biggest difference is that Uta Frith is from the medical profession and set out to first and foremost publicise a medical condition rather than honour a person.

Absolutely :-)

Arran said:

Edith Sheffer is an historian who appears to have first and foremost written a book to vilify a person and obliterate his name from both formal use and respectable conversation.

This person could also learn to be compassionate with herself, and show respect for others.

David said:

I will remind you all that the whole world was against Nazi Germany not just the Jews.

I am reminding or informing you anew that the whole world was not and is still not against the Jews:

A number of rescuers helped Jewish people and others to escape from the Nazi Holocaust during World War II. Possibly the most well-known among whom was German businessman Oskar Schindler. The article concentrates on famous cases, or people who saved the lives of many potential victims. Since 1963, Yad Vashem, the Holocaust memorial in Isreal, has recognized 24,356^[1] people as Righteous Among Nations. A commission in Israel, called The Holocaust Martyrs' and Heroes' Remembrance Authority, is organized by Yad Vashem, headed by an Israeli Supreme Court justice, and awards people who rescued Jews the honorary title of Righteous Among the Nations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individuals_and_groups_that_assisted_Jews_during_the_Holocaust