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OCD? Internalised PDA? Or is it just another autistic trait my sons developed?

Lau

Just over a year ago August 2023 my son age 6 developed an interest in numbers, he isn't advanced for his age if anything he’s behind but he developed an interest in asking me sums and initially he would answer them differently to how I would such as 

what’s 5 + 3, I’d say it’s 8, he’d reply no it’s 7 and 1, 

Fast forward to the present, he asks me sums from the minute he opens his eyes until he settles at night. It’s very very repetitive. He doesn’t always know the answer to these sums he’s asking and he doesn’t like me to ask him sums. When he wakes at night he can ask me sums not always but on occasion. If he’s colouring in and uses the wrong colour by mistake he gets very upset and angry with himself, he can’t move on from the mistake until the next day.

Upon returning to school in August 2024 he was getting very upset at the end of the day, he would say the same things most days “I’m doing everything” “ I’m not doing everything anymore” he wasn’t able to elaborate further what he was meaning. He was exhausted though he fell asleep sitting up twice in that week.

I contacted the school and said I was keeping him off the following day to rest. School fed back to me that he puts these high expectations on himself and he wants to finish a full worksheet even when the Rest of the class are having brain breaks, he is the one who wants to do more work after he’s completed his tasks for that morning/afternoon. They said if he makes a mistake he’s hard on himself and gets very upset. He can’t move on from it until he can’t see the mistake anymore, teacher has started putting white sticky labels over any mistakes so its completely out of his sight. They said he talks and is very much a chatterbox. They don’t seem overly concerned. Whereas I am concerned that he’s not feeling able to give himself time to rest and play with his special interest toy like he has always done on previous years at school and he’s exhausting himself to the point he’s in tears on our car journey home.

Upon hearing what the school said I was shocked as from what my son was saying I thought that the school were the ones pushing him to apply himself more. Now I’m unsure how to support him with these high expectations he has on himself. He isn’t at the stage where we could have a back and forth conversation about worries, solutions, realistic expectations etc. I have been implementing 5 minute breaks for myself and my son. To try model that even mum needs a break after a task. I say aw my body/brain needs a rest. 

Since August 2023 my son seems to have changed, he went from a boy who could lash out, meltdowns, school refusal to now showing signs of Rejection sensitivity dysphoria, he people pleases, he masks, he worries. He thinks his teacher will be disappointed in him. If there’s a person on tv that’s loud or raising their voice he would say turn it over as it panics him, if I’m giving his brother a row he gets panicked and says it’s okay he’s a good boy. If he hears a baby cry when we are outdoors he gets worried and will keep asking about them for a long time after. A dog barking in the vet and he thought the dog didn’t like him and that’s why it was barking. He can’t always make decisions such as go for a shower, brush your teeth, getting dressed, leave the house he would be in tears and say I don’t know what to do and these situations when he can’t make his mind up go on for hours and as a parent it’s very upsetting to see him like that.. 

My sons dad is diagnosed with OCD and puts very high expectations on himself.

I am now wondering if this is early warning signs of OCD? Does he feel so uncomfortable in his surroundings at school that he’s wanting his workload increased as a coping mechanism.

Is what he’s experiencing internalised PDA? freeze/fawn internalised meltdowns? Is he over working himself as that’s a way of gaining his autonomy and asserting control over himself as he can’t control his surroundings? 

Parents

  • Sums: This is amazing. He's enamoured with numbers. There's so much here - Maths and Physics are closely connected. To think of a sum in all its forms and shapes (different sums) is not a skill or inclination everyone possesses. I love this, personally. 

    Couple this with the Autistic: 1. need for resolution, 2. our unique hyper focus and  3. sense-perceiving everything with a greater intensity than others, including emotions such as awe, wonder, epiphany, intrigue along with disappointment and frustration. Numbers are fascinating, and every new discovery is a dopamine hit. Ask any good mathematician, it's pure magic. I read an article sometime back by a maths professor who said that we're not teaching match correctly to children. If they could see Natural Physics through numbers they'd queue up to drink in the material. I have a brother in physics and one who teaches maths. Any professor would give their wand to mentor someone so enchanted.

    Lau said:
    he wants to finish a full worksheet even when the Rest of the class are having brain breaks

    He doesn't need a 'brain break'. He's in a flow. To break that flow state can feel actually painful for us. See Autistic Inertia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUFDAevkd3E

    Lau said:
    Does he feel so uncomfortable in his surroundings at school that he’s wanting his workload increased as a coping mechanism.

    Everything you're describing is part and parcel to Autism with a high intellect. When our body doesn't function as we desire, it's crushing, if sometimes embarrassing. Heightened sensitivity to the world coupled with a difficulty predicting social nuance and social cues means humans (except those in our intimate circle) are entirely unpredictable. When one feels more in tune with the natural world (physics) and less to the social, it is the social realm which possesses grave danger. And how to predict this? But also, school is a competitive space where they don't openly state you need to exhaust yourself, but there are all kinds of implied expectations. Remember, we take everything literally. Every test, mark and subtle comment to apply the self we take to mean anything less than 100 is disappointing. People often say things in passing, or to help motivate, they won't think before they speak or recall things stated that an Autistic could take the wrong way. 

    A higher intellect means we employ hyper-vigilance, especially when we experience executive dysfunction or notice differences and realise this in contrast to others. We're often heavy Right hemisphere types, the side which taps into an infinite/momentary time stream and is open to anything being anything. And when life is like this, it's crucial to find solid ground somehow. 

    I want to say a thing on OCD, which is widely misunderstood... I'll add a reply.

Reply

  • Sums: This is amazing. He's enamoured with numbers. There's so much here - Maths and Physics are closely connected. To think of a sum in all its forms and shapes (different sums) is not a skill or inclination everyone possesses. I love this, personally. 

    Couple this with the Autistic: 1. need for resolution, 2. our unique hyper focus and  3. sense-perceiving everything with a greater intensity than others, including emotions such as awe, wonder, epiphany, intrigue along with disappointment and frustration. Numbers are fascinating, and every new discovery is a dopamine hit. Ask any good mathematician, it's pure magic. I read an article sometime back by a maths professor who said that we're not teaching match correctly to children. If they could see Natural Physics through numbers they'd queue up to drink in the material. I have a brother in physics and one who teaches maths. Any professor would give their wand to mentor someone so enchanted.

    Lau said:
    he wants to finish a full worksheet even when the Rest of the class are having brain breaks

    He doesn't need a 'brain break'. He's in a flow. To break that flow state can feel actually painful for us. See Autistic Inertia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUFDAevkd3E

    Lau said:
    Does he feel so uncomfortable in his surroundings at school that he’s wanting his workload increased as a coping mechanism.

    Everything you're describing is part and parcel to Autism with a high intellect. When our body doesn't function as we desire, it's crushing, if sometimes embarrassing. Heightened sensitivity to the world coupled with a difficulty predicting social nuance and social cues means humans (except those in our intimate circle) are entirely unpredictable. When one feels more in tune with the natural world (physics) and less to the social, it is the social realm which possesses grave danger. And how to predict this? But also, school is a competitive space where they don't openly state you need to exhaust yourself, but there are all kinds of implied expectations. Remember, we take everything literally. Every test, mark and subtle comment to apply the self we take to mean anything less than 100 is disappointing. People often say things in passing, or to help motivate, they won't think before they speak or recall things stated that an Autistic could take the wrong way. 

    A higher intellect means we employ hyper-vigilance, especially when we experience executive dysfunction or notice differences and realise this in contrast to others. We're often heavy Right hemisphere types, the side which taps into an infinite/momentary time stream and is open to anything being anything. And when life is like this, it's crucial to find solid ground somehow. 

    I want to say a thing on OCD, which is widely misunderstood... I'll add a reply.

Children
  • in reply to JuniperFromGallifrey

    Thank you that’s such a lovely message, you’re great with words. He loves numbers, he says he likes even numbers and doesn’t like odd numbers. He also loves writing numbers. He says the alphabet A1 B2 C3 and so on. He watches number blocks and can sing his times tables but if you were to ask him a random times table question he wouldn’t know the answer. 

    He enjoys science experiments and he has a great memory of events that have happened, even from events prior to him having language.

    He really is such a kind natured boy and I know I’m biased as I’m his mother but I do feel he will achieve great things aslong as he feels supported and is in the right environments that understand him. He is dedicated to his after school clubs and will never miss a day. 

    when you mentioned about being in a flow state makes a lot of sense as I see that at home when he’s focused on his special interest toy or an activity or even a cartoon it has to be watched until the end. I will watch the link you sent. So interrupting his flow of school work would cause him more harm. Which I didn’t think of. 

    At times I may over analyse his behaviours but I want to support him in the correct way. I worry about the harm school can cause to autistic children but I am also very aware that I’m not able to give him the education and experiences school can give him.

    Do you think the crying and feeling exhausted after school is just something that will be his normal now? It makes me worry that he ends up in burn out. 

  • in reply to JuniperFromGallifrey

    The outcome of OCD is harm. To quote, "Obsessions are recurrent and persistent thoughts, urges, or images that are experienced as intrusive and unwanted", Compulsions are irrational, not a passion. They often involve self harm.

    OCD is not immaturity. Where one needs to learn the discipline of rest. Children don't want to sleep or have baths for fear of missing out - they want to play, learn, immerse, be wild. Who can sleep when the universe is filled with wonder. OCD is not perfectionism, which a guitarist can be driven by to rehearse daily for 8-12 hours. But a musician can also be driven by a desire to get out of poverty as well as the hypnotic joy of being immersed in sound. OCD is not absent insight on how to trouble shoot and solve a complex problem or fix a disconnect. We can be driven by immaturity, lack of knowledge, an internal image of connexion or the solution, but remain in the dark on how to get there. And when wisdom is not afforded to the young, nor the decades of experience and work plus guidance to obtain a PhD, those who can envision a thing well beyond their power can feel overwhelmed, literally driven by this frustration. OCD, however, is Trauma-Based. 

    Last, OCD is not often riddled with a wild imagination that cannot “unsee” a thing one should not have been exposed to, or a wild imagination/intellect connecting social structures to imagery in order to make sense of the world. I’ve heard mothers discuss the inability to not think of all the danger their children could encounter, but only in the last few years has this been mislabelled as “intrusive thoughts”, when it is simply good parenting. 

    It is a biological difference of GABA which I've found with Autism. I take a nootropics supplement with Lion's Mane to help with a sense of calm, focus, gut-health and sleep cycle. 

    What you're describing is a amazing autistic kid who's dealing with a loss in communication (as all autistics do - we use vocal words and language different) and an intellect beyond his years / age.