Challenging behaviour - SEN Teachers asking for advice

We do use their special interest to calm them down at times. Most of the time they need different things to calm down, because its all different problems. One day, she might need a hug, a chat, a sleep, go on the swing, go for a walk, alone time but other times she might need distracting, so watching a film, talk to mum, different work or wordsearches, games. It all depends on what they need in the moment. 

Rileys special interests change overtime, one day she might be obsessed with a Teddy, the next she'll be obsessed with football, which she is at the moment. When Riley first started last year, she was frequently melting down and we found out that getting her to play catch with a ball helped. We would not talk, but we would chuck a ball at her and we would wait until she chucks it back, she liked the game and it would calm her down quickly. 

We do everything we can and we learn new things every day. For Riley, she doesn't like being distracted anymore, she likes to figure out what's bothering her and solve the issue so we do detective work with her, since she likes detective programmes. But for other students, they might need a hug and go back to work, a sleep, a chat, or distraction which works best for quite a few. Feel free to post whatever on here, it's a safe place. Thank you for responding to my questions. 

Hi, I have been following this post but haven't commented so far as I didn't feel qualified (I am 25 and in the processes of being assessed for autism). I just wanted to say that it is great that you are involving their special interests in their work- that is such a positive thing to do and I wish that was something that schools did more often- learning can be so much fun if you can follow your interests. Before you brought this up, I was wondering whether Riley has any special interests that she could use as a way of grounding herself/ calming herself down? I don't know if this would work for her but I have found that for me getting lost in a special interest can be extremely soothing and calming at times. I used to use physical activity (eg. running, cycling etc) as a way of letting off stress (and I still feel like this is one of the most effective ways for me) but I wish that I had also learnt other ways of calming down as I have been injured for a while now and really struggled not being able to use exercise as a coping mechanism. I'm sure you are already helping your students to develop lots of different coping mechanisms- I can tell from what you have written that you really care, which is great. 

Thank you for this. We learn more and more everyday with these students. They are honestly the teachers. We have training every Friday and during half terms so we learn and go over the basics. We are very good at staying calm. We have 3 main things we care about with our students  

1. Safety. Safety ALWAYS comes first.

2. Happiness and needs are being met. We do everything we can to make them happy and always making sure their needs are met. 

3. Education. If students aren't happy, or in the right frame of mind, they won't want to learn. We have an autistic curriculum and we make sure their interests are involved in the work  so it's fun and they are more likely to engage. 

Speaking as someone who has worked in an sen advisory capacity with school & colleges for more 15 years i can truly relte should your good selves feel that 9/10 is to remain composed. The plans can then go ahead & evolve, but there is no standpoint until that initial trust reinforcing phase is complete, where less is more when it comes to the schools group emotional regulation. Thus in a paraconsistent sense it is the schools own mass regulation that matters the most in one sense, but then again thats an old bedrock coming back in vogue! Any staff who are not so sure, or might become frustrated can tip a very critical balance. Not that any was ever inferred, but i'm sure you'd understand perfectly. Beyond as things move forward much choice exists as you'd know. Further abroad societal pressures are chaotic ones, social media is very influential, and sometimes a school has a very tough task in competing its mentoring, against that which takes place in social media. More to it than stranger danger, it can be a cause of stress, can be a source of influence against elders. Generally speaking it could be true to say that the same calm approach in use can overcome this should it be relevant, simply as building a trusting relationship appears to be the formula working for you. In that sense a mention of such probably has nothing to do with Riley. However it is clear as time goes on that the nature social media life is having  forms of far reaching affect expected until now & that fluctuations in mood can be caused by the noise that goes on in SM - its such an obvious distractor & the young are trying to process much of their life in virtual places. In that sense, whilst a form of physical ethos where the students can delete us would obviously defeat the object, there could be a case by which we can perceive they do not know that absolutely enough - i.e is absconding a delete ? Hence a hidden understanding of this calm stand back component might feature the way it in fact substitutes. Lets presume that was true ( we don't know if it is ) - if it were we are supplying the emotional breathing space just by that stepping back, that is a high point for the schools model. Also by showing nothing other than a well regulated emotion yourselves as facilitators, is essential its the Ethos. Nature and its way with the very obvious have the effect where its sense validity is reduced, or is undermined such is the long term knowledge etc. The human mind tends to undervalue all common things, but that won't deter a common thing from being the quintessential key to building trust. There is a bit of a phenomenological paradox there ofc, and a lot of simple things will be red herrings. However if you feel that disadvantage with emotional regulation is relevant - your patience is 95% at this point in time.  Later a more existential need might become known to you & then it'll take a more cognitive twist. One thing for sure is that from your words there springs the clear intention to actually operate as a SEN place of education. One that feels it is your task to help facilitate recovery. Put it this way. The Metacognition' sounds like a complex term that requires much study. It actually has a spectrum beginning from get up & get dressed in the morning. It can go all the way to infinite extreme but thats irrelevant. An SEN facility is actually trying to boot up students self efficacy via metacognition & is a much more simple term than most realise. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metacognition.

Such a basic understanding i.e ''thinking about thinking''. Thats what we do as soon as we turn the alarm clock off, then dress, have breakfast, send an email, leave for school. If we consider that thought forms seem to have couplings. For instance most teachers couples the thoughts  ''get up dogged tired or not'' with the underlying concept that it is their duty to self and others = coupling = self efficacy. If we do not take breakfast, we might be eating at another point in day instead. The coupling 'Eat' with at X time underneath still exists = for healthy reasons. What if there is a pointless stressful argument going on in social media that morning.  The coupling needs to be 'lets get on with the day for my own sake' If that is not there - what ?  The point is that if trust stage  is well established and stable. What support is next ? is it self defeating or dysfunctional behaviours that could cause a return to the former state ?. Bearing in mind that schools do not have a magic wand & many things are way beyond. Matters of basic importance are not though, furthermore it doesn't matter what the distractions are when it comes to turnarounds with basic awareness. The term Disillusionment with life is enough to explain the societal pressure behind many basic distractions on students. Thus in cognitive terms ( and the whole point of SEN facilitation is that it is a cognitive enrichment) what else could possibly lead to resolve & concentration by a student other than a basic metacognitive process of agreeing to agree with themselves on matters that they need or do not need as a coupling to educational awareness = their future. at least to a degree that creates positive change & gives something that can help in future. Educators can simplify also = cognitive noise = distraction = lack of attention. If there is more & safeguarding concerns arise then they shall. Otherwise what is there ? They can or cannot listen to school for X reason.. How difficult that is help with might define how long it will take to help!

In many ways all best efforts will not always result in what is hoped for as SEN is not a miracle cure. 'Metacognition' is a sort of deception again where 'thinking about thinking' is only a simple concept at its absolute root. A need to eat / overeating is not healthy = coupling = thinking about thinking = Metacognition is basic. And we note it does elegantly sail to complexity as its a very long string = metacognition can know few bounds like that.  At the' I must turn off alarm clock & get to work' = self efficacy -=Metacognition' it is positively uninspiring. Discussed from the very basic level can like earlier seem so common & insignificant we do not value it again like that darn stuff called Water. Yet it has a very logical line of evolution, and nicely sums up the difference between function and dysfunction at a low level of understanding done by everyone everyday.

Ok it doesn't have to be posh sounding 'Metacognition' true - it could x -y or z does it matter ? - NO. But certainly the combination outlined is something essential. I>E Trust and Self Efiicacy. Your posts progressed and it seemed like you began winning the trust stage day tbh. Beyond that and beyond Riley - we might not get to the bottom of the distractions. we might help them minimise the abstractions and find some desire to learn cohesion. It is not difficult to accidentally break the personal responsibility spirit of some asd young persons. Some feel they do not care what happens in the future if any part of ideal is caused to be incomplete = disillusionment. we have worrying empty hypothesis societal leanings that teach that everyone can have everything they want. This is not wise as no information concerning supplementary structures that cause some to get it and most not to are discussed. Only some will get all they want without that scaffold. Thus the encouragement is true, but only by either complex equation or in rarer cases. We choose what the most vulnerable are encouraged to believe carefully.  A lot of these young people are humiliating each other on SM where they got stuff &| the others didn't you know.  Then there can be this goss & that goss and it can all seem vitally important to them ofc. Whilst there is no doubt most students are not getting entangled, increasing numbers are. There can also be identity politics based mobbings, where what should classed trivial indiscretions, are at times reaching the level of blackmail  = owed a favour / incident confirms low pecking order status / and others. 8 9 10 11 are very delicate ages at which to go through hierarchical dilemmas. This mention has nothing to do with your own remarks no. It just something that is rearing up, whilst not enough thought has gone into the rigours that go on in WWW group dynamics. Innocently - the work load / budget / how can we evebn consider an andragogy under this pressure ? ( and so on )  The need to expand understanding in 21st century society in relation to the peer to peer matters that can arise before these young people is still there. The  concern industry does not cover such factors and cannot. A meaningful supplementation from sociological study is required. This isn't entirely specific in that way, but some schools implement Quality of Life Theory. I contribute to one of those though no interest to declare as its unpaid & voluntary, plus is not published until end of this year. That will be on a site called Researchgate in order to go with the first as part of its development.  Howeever should any general QOL theory matter sound of interest such can be found online. Some schools have SEN adaptations to QOL theory in place. An independent school in particular runs services such as seminars on the subject, training and so forth and can be sourced easily should this area seem attractive Again i have nothing to declare except i have shared QOL data with that school as a free resource.

Anyway good luck - i enjoyed reading your posts as they just resounded like something was very right about your approach & feel that things would go from strength to strength !

The school day has finished today for the students. Riley had an amazing day and coped well. She played football and then for the last part of the day, which is being rewarded for her week, she started to find challenging. She knows that it is WPR, weekly point reward, then taxi, then weekend. She had a preferred member of staff and things got a bit tricky. We still haven't found out the whole issue but it was all down to anxiety and overwhelmed. She did hit out but we offered her a hug straight away which she took. She was very upset so we did the usual to calm her down but we didn't have much luck. 

In her mind, she was overwhelmed. She was anxious about getting in the taxi, the transition, going home, her dog isn't well, she has the dentist tomorrow which everyone hates and last time I belive there was a surprise X-ray, she has a busy weekend, has to see her father, go swimming, see family. Its the first week back, there's been a lot of change and she's had enough now. Her mum is going to support her and will come up with a plan. Riley said there was even more stuff which she isn't ready to tell us about to add to the equation. Otherwise from that little blip, she has done really well, an amazing week. 

It makes perfect sense and if there are already a few authority figures she trusts then I guess getting a non authority figure she can open upto might not be so critical. Of course there are levels of opening up.

I've know victims of traumatic, specifically abuse, who told their teachers and other authority figures about the abuse and were accused of lying. They never really trusted authority figures again. Might make it quite hard to open up to a school councillor too. My feeling is anyone who tries to talk to her about 'correcting her behaviour' or anything with that sort of vibe is going to close them selves off as some one she can open upto. Even if the trauma in her case wasn't abuse if it was over a protracted period of time the residual impression is likely to be that the adults in her life failed to protect her.

Add autism of top of that and she probably feels like the world blames her for what happened to her. The thing about autism, especially growing up, is people are always trying to change you. So if you're being hurt and the adults around you seem more intent on making you normal than protecting you the message that sends is that the adults around you think it's your fault the bad things happen to you.

For an adult to get through to her over the trauma they'll need to be willing to turn a blind eye to the bad behaviour. It's the difference between coming into an office and asking her 'why did you throw a chair at the teacher,' and instead asking, 'so I hear you're having a hard day,' and instead of having a long discussion about what happened in class you have a long discussion about what's going on in her head which may only tangentially relate to class and whatever triggered her outburst.

And yes that process of unraveling what's in someones head is often probative. In so far as you make a reasonable guess and ask her if this has something to do with it, like a game of 20 questions. But even if you ask her about something she's not ready to trust you with she will deny or deflect. Again my, admittedly adult friend, would give me very different answers about the things that were bothering her after a year or two of knowing me. And I didn't try to change her or impose any kinds of conditions or demands on her, if anything most of the time I was laughing at her disruptive antics that in fairness got her banned from several venues in our city.

For a teacher or councillor who also has to the the one to say 'no don't do that,' to break through to her. Well I just feel it's going to be really hard.

Due to the trauma, she doesn't trust anyone outside of school. She does trust a few staff members which is really nice. She trusts them a lot to the point where it affects her behaviour and learning. For example, she will do well, maybe struggle a bit, in every lesson when she doesn't have one of those she fully trusts. When she does get someone she trusts, she will show pure emotion. She would be bottling things up all day and will only let it out with them because she knows she's safe and we won't push her away but comfort her instead. She hurts the ones she trusts because she knows we won't go anywhere, if that makes sense. 

No, we haven't. We dont feel this would be in her best interest. We have a counsellor who works with our students and we are trying to get a session in to speak to them again. She does open up to some staff members, but first we need to gain her trust and not loose it. She is really good with communicating what's wrong with these staff. Most of the time, she likes it if we ask questions and guess what's wrong and we will soon find out the issue. 

In math there is something that presents it beautifuly how it works when two different things give the same effect and what happens if you try to zero one of them without knowing which one it is - You can end up doubling it up.

 |x|=x, if x is a positive, and |x|=-x if negative, both x and -x produce the same effect

Have you considered some sort of mentoring or big brother scheme. Pairing her up with a responsible high functioning autistic person closer to her age who she might feel able to open up to?

NAS80219 said:

• S.I.B (Self Injurious Behaviour)
• Aggression towards staff (verbal and physical) 
• Absconding and running off 
• Disruptive behaviour (creating a difficult working environment for others) 
• Refusal to do work and listen to instructions 

What you have here is a list of effects with out causes so it's really hard to infer what might be helpful and obviously you are constrained by confidentiality so I'm going to have to speculate quite a bit.

What you are describing sounds eariliy similar to people I've known personally. It sounds like it could be complex PTSD in combination with autism. Complex PTSD being trauma that took place over a protracted period of time such as being abused by a trusted person over a long period of time. A lot of the points on this list would make sense even with out autism in that context. But of course the autism makes it particularly hard to express that trauma to others or to figure out who can be trusted.

My feeling is you probably need to make progress on dealing with the trauma before you can make significant progress on behaviour in an educational setting. She needs a network of peers (people with whom she doesn't have to worry about an authority dynamic) around her she trusts and can open up to about what she's been through.

When the 'noise' of her anger and pain has died down, or at least become more ordered in her own mind because she's been able to make 'sense' of it by working through it with others, then the residual aggression and disruptive behaviour that's left is something you can address with a package of adjustments.

NAS80219 said:

We think she may have PTSD due to how badly she reacts but we can't discuss this

Why can't you discuss this? We all have PTSD at this age due to a society we are mismatched to fit in.

Here again, perhaps a Theatre class can help as there is something therapeutic in it. There are rules to relationships involved and forms of exchange. here again, understanding etiquette as a form of Art / Aesthetic (how can we create a kind and respectful environment with the colours we choose? how can we create a form of "art" in our relationships?)

Could be good to see if you cannot hire someone. Theatre classes aid with memory techniques, as well as social.

First of all - it's really amazing how much you care for your students! I always remember teachers who have cared.

Also, by adrenaline, I don't mean 'seeking' it out. I mean the ADHD surge which happens at random in the brain which is simply the ADHD biological "eco-system". They cannot control it and wouldn't seek it out if they could. 

The expense of intensity and the way their system is would've been amazing for a tribal setting, where as in civilised society it will simply create these highs and lows. One needs to learn to 'ride them out'. But as most of us are naturally analytical, our emotions (which are like senses, a tool for calculation) are not really driving us. Analysis is. Discovery is. It can be good to learn to identify an emotion so we don't harm another or to be aware they may cloud our judgement or even to 'go with them' if we need a day off. But they are an after thought. And as I've gotten older, the more rules for life I understand, the better settled and grounded I am and this is where these children need to get to. Grounded. It's what 'stimming' actually is. A mechanism for being grounded to the earth.

Besides, in a tribe, I'd want an ADHD team mate to deal with the wild life while I, as the autistic counter-partner would easily recognise seemingly invisible smells and shapes/markings of poisonous foraged items. How and why we excel as humans is not always recognised as valuable today. But the capacity for multi-tasking with my ADHD friends and the innate capacity of autistics for finalising tasks to precision or researching and making connexions which could easily be missed, are of incredible value.

I don't know that we learn well together in the same classroom as there are many polarities in our natural functions. 

Yes, these mood swings will be intense and they will be longer than NTypical individuals. That's what makes us Autistic. The inability to dull the sense and therefore the intensity at which we feel / experience the world around us. But also the inability to work with language (compounding the unidentified assault on our physiological or emotional senses into frustration), Thus, figure out a term or identify what we're responding to when we're too young to understand the physics of sound, the maths of acoustics, the chemistry of smells, the rules of social interaction, the psychology at work. A focus on STEAM learning with well explained rules for investment and relationships (probably from an autistic explanation) is crucial. As mentioned, these are not automatic/innate for us like they would be in NueroTypical children. 

I'm a bit lost here with this:

Interrupting Student: Needs to understand others do not owe them a relationship nor a response. How many different ways have you tried to explain this? It's clear you'll not be able to keep saying the same thing. This is a big one for young autistic kids, as they feel intensely toward another, and just hearing what another needs or is doing is too vague and nonsensical. In fact, it can accidentally teach this other student their needs aren't as important. When someone needs space, it could mean for any length of time - 2 minutes? 2 Hours? It could mean we might or might not be friends, and it might cause this student to interrupt even more out of anxiety and dread and a whole new load of unresolved matters. 

This student needs to understand practical tools to create and afford boundaries, which could be difficult depending on what going on at home. They need to understand it's selfish to demand others engage and can use good Rules for Exchange and Rules to create and invest in friendship. These are not usually allotted by a school, as NeuroTypical children usually don't need them. But Autistic children thrive when given Rules of etiquette to keep in the conscious level of their mind. We make conscious decisions to afford kindness, afford dignity and afford space. Theatre classes will also help with these. The fact that I undergo mental work to be a friend toward and with you, is effort and valuable.

JuniperFromGallifrey said:

A child running laps around a building is actually engaging in a safe response to trauma or adrenaline.

Riley is an adrenaline seeker at times but we have safe ways to deal with this. She has also been through trauma the past few years and sometimes she gets triggered at school. We think she may have PTSD due to how badly she reacts but we can't discuss this. It is also leading up to when the trauma began so she's struggling in that area aswell. 

She also goes to periods of high and low mood. Ofcourse teenagers and everyone else go through mood swings but this is on a different level and lasts a while. One day, she'll be her normal self, the next she can be really low and agitated. Other times it seems like she has endless energy, she's talking really quickly and really loudly almost shouting, and she doesnt stop laughing or talking, she's just in this weird mood that even a little issue that would usually bother her, wouldn't. Literally, she could be really annoyed with something but she'll be laughing, smiling and seems cheerful, it's not her. I can't explain it but this can also lead to absconding. 

We teach students on a daily basis about personal space and when students need quiet time. Riley shares a classroom with 2 other students, and she gets on with them both but one of the student's wants to be best friends with Riley and will constantly be interrupting her lesson trying to talk to Riley but we have always said 'Riley is in a lesson' or 'Riley needs space'. Because we have said this all the time, Riley is now starting to communicate what she needs with the student. She will say she needs space or she's in a lesson, then will ignore her and carry on. 

We are working with Riley to help her understand the issues she's facing and now she's doing really well and is interested in what to do. 

Today's little incident we had a chat about and she said that she was confused and overwhelming and needed the space from students. She then said she started locking staff out and walking away from them and wanted to change her staff, even though she was happy with them, to control her environment. But then she absconded because things got too much.

We didn't know this, we knew about the students and needing space but because she locked her staff out, we thought she didn't want them so offered to change them, so she said yes to be in control. It is always easier to lock staff out because then she knows that we know something is bothering her. 

NAS80219 said:

she didn't get the space and quiet she needed from other students making her abscond from school

But this sounds like the problem. It's valuable for everyone to learn to respect one another. Perhaps you have stickers or a laminate available for students who don't have it in them to be social that day. This teaches them how to express their Limit and how to be Respectful of others Limits. Something like this in school available for each student might solve a great deal of problems. 

Education doesn't need to be social but focused on learning. In fact, the more young children learn to respect and express limits, the more socially capable they will be as adults. 

NAS80219 said:

Sometimes she doesn't know what is bothering her which is confusing and makes it worse

This is a really crucial issue. Helping her with the tools for critical reasoning are key. Autistics can be excellent at analysis and Logic. I wonder if they can help https://www.sapere.org.uk

We can sense seemingly invisible exchanges from human interaction to bio-chemical. We might miss the theatrics of social cues, but we can sense what's happening 'back stage'. So, for me, a feelings wheel is useless. It's absolutely pointless. It doesn't help in the least, because any thing in a given day can make me 'feel' the exact same thing. And just 'feeling' sad doesn't actually fix a problem. I need to work out the psychology or the physics of a function. For instance, just catching a few different uncomfortable smells is not helpful. Getting a lab test and working out that one of them is formaldehyde and another is from paint IS useful. From there, I can buy an air purifier. Same with chemically made candles. A flatmate wouldn't stop using them years ago just because I was having a negative reaction. I had to find the Chemical breakdown of the ingredients and the damage they could do. We are often dismissed. That's an added bonus. And when I couldn't identify that I was being dismissed it caused far more stress than when I could and also had the grounding understanding of who that other was in relation to me.

These things are not simple, they are a different way of maturing into adulthood. I honestly believe if autistic children are taught principles of being, of relating, of psychology and wisdom - expectations and rules of relationships, they may not be able to drive a car by 18, but they will have the correct orientation to become more grounded adults within the world and when ready, will be far more successful in their fields. 

JuniperFromGallifrey said:

A child running laps around a building is actually engaging in a safe response to trauma or adrenaline. Exhausting oneself with physical activity is the best way to avoid taking it out on others. This shouldn't be discouraged. ADHD children typically need far more activity then they are allowed and it's quite harmful to their biology if they don't get this. 

We agree, the majority of students will work in their classroom and 5 minute breaks then go back to work. Riley, on the other hand, has a lot of energy. She is constantly walking an moving. She will do her work and do laps or go offsite with her work. She is very active and sporty so does football before and sometimes after school at home. Today, she did 5,000 steps in an hour since arriving. And had done 20,000 steps by the end of the day. That's more than us adults. We are trying to involve movement on her timetable. 

We are a school specialising in autism so we do have a good understanding of it. We have training every few weeks to help us aswell. There is a sensory room where the children can go to have alone time, sleep, and quiet time. We also have an O.T which can be used at times, if there isn't a lesson, to de escalate. 

We don't stop the students from walking round the school. We made this mistake with Riley. When Riley is walking round the school, we can tell whether she wants staff with her or not. Is she does, then we let her be. If she doesn't, then her staff wait on either side, so we have an eye on her but also so she has the space needs. 

Today was another tricky day for Riley and she didn't get the space and quiet she needed from other students making her abscond from school. She then came back with staff and we did some problem solving. Sometimes she doesn't know what is bothering her which is confusing and makes it worse so we do our best to pin point what has gone on and why.