Son always thinking he knows better.

You're not overreacting, that was an unreasonable thing for him to do.

When everyone joins in to play a game, they are all agreeing to play by the same rules. Games are somewhat like a test for real world social interactions, as in, can you get along with everyone else, can you play fairly, do you respect everyone involved in the game. 

The thing is, right when he tried doing something different, like seeing how many balls can fit in the hippos mouth, was the moment that he stopped playing the game. He was not playing by the same rules, he was not playing with you or his little brother anymore. You kept asking him to throw the balls back into the middle, but he refused, meaning he was not playing by the same rules anymore, and he was not playing fairly, because he was hoarding all the balls and not throwing them back into the middle. And in all games, the number one thing people want most, is fairness, otherwise there's something to complain about. 

Then he broke something that was not his to break. I mean if it was an accident, then that's just happenstance, but he was purposely pushing the limits of this toy, when this toy was mainly for your younger son to enjoy and play with, and now your younger son is left with a broken toy, and that's not fair to him. Who wants lend a toy out to someone, only for them to hand it back broken (or maybe... 75% still functional?) I would absolutely hate that, because that means they did not show a drop of respect.

And maybe once he started playing "overfed hippo" instead of "hungry hippo," and when he refused a rule that would equal fair play for everyone (like to throw the balls back into the middle so that the game can continue) is when you could have called for a time out, to ask if the older son still wanted to play "hungry hippo," and that what he is currently doing is not a part of the game play, and tell him to get back on track, and get back into the game. 

Also, with the food, it's like a double-edged sword, you're damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't. The thing is, you're paying for everything, and it's so wasteful and pointless for him to try new sweeties or new maple syrup, because it'll end up in the garbage, which is a waste of food, it's a waste of your money, and it's a waste of your time earning that money. I mean if your son wanted to buy new sweeties or try new foods, he should pay for it with his own money, not yours. I mean if I buy things for people with good intentions, only for them to hate it and throw it into the garbage, it hurts to see such a thing. But it'll be extremely pointless to buy something knowing they will not like it, and knowing it'll end up straight in the garbage. Even if he gets upset at not getting the new sweetie, tell him to buy them on his own. 

Hello and thank you for your reply.

When we have played games over the years he sometimes tries to switch up rules or simplify games and I find if I play a game with him myself it’s more likely to go smoothly as I can be flexible with him wanting to switch the game up, but if someone else such as his brother wanted to play the game a different way it wouldn’t be allowed and would usually cause M to become frustrated and not want to take part. 

Prior to putting the balls in the hippos mouth, he was taking the balls out of his brothers hippos area, he was doing this because he felt his brother was taking to long to put the balls back in the centre of the game. I reminded him by saying this is Js 1st time playing give him some time to take them out. He did try and wait but I could see he was wanting to move on with the game and his wee brother was taking a bit longer than M and I were at putting the balls back in the centre. Both boys were really excited and loving the game at this point. 

I’m not sure if he’s thought he’s taking to long with the balls so I’m going to sabotage the game or if he disliked the praise I gave both children or because he had seen me asking him to put the balls back in the centre as a demand.

Regardless of how he interpreted what was said/done his actions were wrong and it upset me. 

My youngest J didn’t pick up on the fact the blue hippo got broken as there wasn’t a big deal made out of it and he did want M to continue playing but M was annoyed that I had questioned him a few times on his actions and then tried to change the subject to him wanting to use the hippo J was using which then caused upset and he called J a brat stood up said I’m going to play my PS5 and walked out. 

I do believe I should challenge him a bit more with things that are wrong and not allow him to have so much control but I try to pick my battles with him as His PDA can make life really tricky for everyone in the house. 

The waste of food and money also frustrates me I see my money being spent on something that will be opened sometimes not even eaten he could just smell the food and that would put him off then the food is binned.

I know the need for him to try these new foods comes from watching you tubers who try new foods in videos and he is trying to copy what they do. I do say to him though that these people are sent these food items for free in order for the companies to gain publicity. 

The reason he dislikes most foods is also down to sensory processing struggling with tastes smells and textures This has made my son have a very limited diet, but this doesn’t stop him wanting to buy new treat foods. 

It’s so hard 

You seem to give a lot to both your sons, but I'd say that no person would understand what they have, until they don't have anything, and I don't think your older son appreciates what he has in his life, because he's been given so much. I mean, he can break a toy, be unapologetic, call your younger son a brat, and then go play ps5. Does that sound like a reasonable thing for any child to do?

I mean, I was going to suggest temporarily removing the game console for awhile until he learns to behave appropriately, but there's been enough bad stories of an angry child hurting their parents over a removed game console, that it's probably best to avoid that. But perhaps you could temporarily remove something else. I mean I used to be addicted to tv shows as a child, but once those channels got removed (which I was really angry and upset about), I needed something else to do with my time, so I started putting my goals together, I started studying, and I got straight As, and I never really went back to watching tv again after realizing my own potential. Sometimes removing something will teach you something else in life. 

You seem to give a lot to both your sons, but I'd say that no person would understand what they have, until they don't have anything, and I don't think your older son appreciates what he has in his life, because he's been given so much. I mean, he can break a toy, be unapologetic, call your younger son a brat, and then go play ps5. Does that sound like a reasonable thing for any child to do?

I mean, I was going to suggest temporarily removing the game console for awhile until he learns to behave appropriately, but there's been enough bad stories of an angry child hurting their parents over a removed game console, that it's probably best to avoid that. But perhaps you could temporarily remove something else. I mean I used to be addicted to tv shows as a child, but once those channels got removed (which I was really angry and upset about), I needed something else to do with my time, so I started putting my goals together, I started studying, and I got straight As, and I never really went back to watching tv again after realizing my own potential. Sometimes removing something will teach you something else in life. 

I mean you’ll find he rebels against your punishments because to him it makes no sense that he’s being punished. Remember in all things his default position is likely to be that he should have complete autonomy. You’re going to have to justify every no with a reason. Otherwise when you do have to punish him for ignoring you when you say no the punishment isn’t going to make any sense, it’s just going to feel vindictive.

no matter what you do he will probably never get to a point where he trusts that you know best. At least not for years. So you’re going to have to start making it so he doesn’t have to take so many things on trust by explaining the reason for things very clearly.

Yeah my brother had a similar group of so-called "friends" while he was in school, a group of bullies. He was loyal to them too. They invited him to a house one day to hang out, and all of them ganged up on him to beat him up. He was bruised, and when he went home he looked upset and didn't want to talk to anyone. These "friends" thought it would be funny to invite my brother somewhere and then beat him up. I was really young at the time and I didn't really understand what happened, or that people could be so mean.

I totally understand that you can't use traditional parenting on these individuals, and you're doing your best to take care of everyone and yourself. And I think it's good to have somewhere to vent out your frustrations from time to time. Otherwise  stress will build up in your system, and that's not good for you. At least you have brief moments of everyone being happy and having a good time.  

Yes his PDA makes him extremely anxious and a desire to control everything makes his anxiety ease ever so slightly. He sees almost everything in life as demanding even things he enjoys can feel demanding to him. Yes PDA does make them feel like a victim when they feel wronged or controls been taken and as if they are hard done to but again I try to validate his feelings even if I don’t always agree with his feelings. 

Life pre pandemic was chaos at times with his behaviour and that’s why I try to no longer parent him by punishments, time outs removal of his favourite possessions as I now see that for years I was punishing him for his PDA profile and how devoted he is at resisting demands. He was reacting to me taking full control from him. I was the person who had to back down as he isn’t capable of doing it. 

I have done some workshops with Laura Kerbey and our local NAS branch and they opened my eyes to how traditional parenting is not going to work for individuals with PDA. I could watch Harry Thomson’s videos all day long as he gets it (he is also a PDA’r) Tigger Pritchard is also another speaker who is a PDA’r. I now try my best to model my parenting on there strategies and it works for us (well most of the time it works) I do have to let a lot of things slide and pick my battles which goes against the normal parenting but it makes life more bearable for us all.  

M is 11 years old. He has been a victim of bullying several times. Most recently he was bullied by a group of boys he believed were his friends. They took advantage of his loyalty and vulnerabilities. For a long time we’ll over a year M did not believe myself or school that these boys were taking advantage of him and the things they did to him was bullying. They would kick him in the face with a ball and say it was an accident, or he would be tripped up and again say it was an accident. It took for them to assault him by kicking him in the stomach he got badly winded and smashing his water bottle and kicking his school bag around that’s why he finally admitted they weren’t friends. M was fiercely loyal to them and on occasions they would say M this person hit me go hit them or Such and such said this to me and made me upset and M would be sent forward to say why did you do this to my friends and on occasions the person hadn’t actually done anything, the boys just wanted to see M make a fool of himself and of course M would be then the one in trouble. He went along with it all because he was hurt his so called friends were hurt. School brought it to my attention lots of times but they would always worm there way back in and unfortunately it took for M realise the hard way. 

I can’t always use these strategies I’ve learned as I am only human and at time become overwhelmed with parenting two kids on the spectrum who are totally opposite from one another and I have my own difficulties too. It’s exhausting at times and to be honest I’ve felt that way this week.

Your son seems like he tries to take control of the situation and be the authority, and even feels like he is in control of the police and sends them at you, and he'll hurt you, and he'll take anything you're afraid of and uses it against you. He does whatever he wants to do. He sounds similar to my older brother. I'm not sure how old your older son is though.

I mean in school my brother was the school bully, and when the other students finally stood up for themselves and attacked him back, he always claimed afterwards that he was the "victim" of school bullying, and he justified his own actions of bullying them as "defending himself" from bullies, even though he bullied them first for the fun of it, because he gets a joy out of causing pain and suffering to others.

Anything you do to your son to reprime him for his actions, makes him into the so-called victim, and you as the so-called offender, so it's difficult for you to discipline him, because he does not react in a typical way other children would, and he'll go to extreme lengths to get what he wants (not eating, calling the police, attacking you).

It's very difficult to handle these types of behaviors. I mean on the odd day they seem to be doing okay, and then they get frustrated and everything turns upside-down. I know that normal disciple like from books and other conventional methods does not really work on these types of people. And these types of people have a lot of demands, and it's either you do it for them, or you don't, and if you don't, they go to an extreme length to get you to do it for them using any means necessary at their disposal. They don't take no for an answer, and will punish you in return for not getting what they want. That's a very difficult thing for you to handle as a parent. 

I remember the discman. That's rough that your 'dad' broke something you bought with your own money. Some parents are controlling and don't want their child to 'waste time' on what they deem is a bad thing, or they think that something (like music) is evil and don't want it to brainwash their children. 

I've had many of my things broken and my money stolen from family, and they've also abused me, and one of my family members even discarded me and wanted to throw my items into the garbage or outside in the rain, so I've felt like I hit rock bottom many times in my early life. But I still managed to get straight As, but I still felt worthless at the same time, and home was utter chaos. I always had to breathe in deeply before putting my keys into the lock to enter the home. I'm glad now as an adult that I have my own place, and I rarely have to talk to my family anymore. 

Hello,

His behaviour sounds awful. I do get that, I’m going to give a bit of back ground prior to lockdown last year I would hold M accountable for a lot of his negative behaviours and his reactions and there was appropriate punishments in place for said things. I used this style of parenting since he was little. 

These are some of the responses I would get when said punishments were give out or if I gave him into trouble. 

He climb out of windows, I locked all the bottom windows he would threaten to climb out top floor windows I was terrified that he would during one of his meltdowns. I used to have to keep all the window keys in my pocket.

He would run from the house (which I allowed if it wasn’t dark outside) usually he would walk off the anger and come home feeling better. I don’t mind him going for the walk as he would not go far and we live pretty safe area. 

If he wanted a certain food that I hadn’t planned to make or he wanted a take away and I said no, he would say I’m not eating then and he would go 2-3 days with no food. He did this a lot when he was younger. We still have the odd occasion he will do this. 

He would trash his room

He would punch me,kick me or scratch me. I had to restrain him once when I was pregnant because he was kicking me so much. 

If we were out & about and he wanted something and I had said no he could run off, I would be there chasing him around pushing his younger brother in the pram which was really difficult as we live in a hilly area. 

There was also a time he wanted to buy 20 5pence lollies and I tried to compromise and say let’s buy 5 lollipops and we can come back in a couple of days and buy more he then grabbed the money out of my hand to buy the 20 lollipops and I was so frustrated I held his hand and took my money from him I somehow managed to scratch his hand. It was the tiniest scratch. This caused a total meltdown in the shop for a good 10 minutes because I had scratched him and because he knew I wasn’t going to buy any lollies now. We managed to get home. Then 20-30 mins later there is two police officers chapping my door. He had actually called the police to arrest me for scratching his hand. The police spoke with me and then spoke with him himself and then spoke with us both together.  They said No further action would be taken. A few weeks after that happened two female police officers appeared at my door and asked to come in, I said yes and the said they were checking up to see how M was. I could not believe this was happening and thankfully they didn’t come back again. 

I’ve asked M to cut his food up, he refused and he then purposely swallowed a large piece of sausage and began chocking I had to call an ambulance he has done this twice now. After that I always cut his food up smaller and he would then refuse to eat it as he felt I was treating him like a baby. 

He would say you don’t love me and you don’t understand me. He wanted to die. 

One time I took his PlayStation remote controller as punishment and he then hid all the remote controls in the house so no one could watch tv in any room

These are just some of the examples of behaviour responses I would get and to be honest I would have an ever ending list. 

Right now M is in mainstream and has never coped well with mainstream. He does a reduced timetable and has a full time pupil support assistant. If anything happens in school that upsets him angers him or he feels too challenged his PDA anxiety gets the better of him and he runs out of school and comes home. He has 2-3 staff members chasing after him. This happens daily. There are also days when he can’t cope with school and he is uncontrollable crying, he has head aches, his IBS flares up and terrible sore stomachs at the thought of going to school on these days he will stay at home. He’s extremely sensory. 

I try not to dish out punishments now I try to see things from his PDA view. How I word sentences to him and how all these negative behaviours are from some sort of trigger. It can make parenting him very tricky and time consuming and I try to take a friendly joking approach with him as he responds well to that I try to analyse situations and pick my battles as I have my younger son who has a diagnosis also. Life can be really hard going for both of them due to their ASC and I try to make home as easy going as I can.  

I know that I need to give him consequences but I also know that those consequences on him have consequences for me and my other son and unfortunately I can’t seem to find a balance that works.

Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia said:

I'd say that no person would understand what they have, until they don't have anything

and long term repercusions in adult life

I saved some money and bought myself discman when I was 16, to introduce myself to music, so at least I know, what people are talking about, but I left at home when I went to school next day, when I came back home, my 'dad' already turned it into liquid courage

so one possible reason to make it easier to talk to people gone

and I did not find out what music actually is until a year ago, !!!!

just an example how horribly wrong it can go if you have nothing